Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flamberge

[TheAutoTech]

So, I'm having a pretty tough time trying to decide which route I want to go for a lightsaber for Kylo Ren at this point. I'll definitely say there's not a better matching functional saber out there than the Force FX to the actual movie saber. None of the saber companies out there are making one that matches Kylo Ren's hilt style to the point that the Force FX one does.

With that being said though there's quite a few downfalls to the Force FX one, namely the non-removable blades whereas the others are removable. IMO the only upside to the non-removable blades is the fact you get the "expanding" light pattern from the LED string that you can see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCPPYa_S1pM

Obviously, major downside to non-removable blades is that you can't remove them and hang the saber from a clip along with being harder to transport safely. I do know you can convert the Force FX saber to removable blades and install the brighter LED's in it along with the plugs too that the other companies use. So, with work the Force FX saber can replicate the others as far as that is concerned but obviously with some work and money. Here is a comparison test to see the brightness difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UFvLsct1qg

As far as lighting is concerned the Force FX saber does have the pulsing lights which is nice. I did notice the Flamberge though can have the pulsing lights as well, but the Force FX actuation is a little cooler but with the dimmer lighting it can be very hard to see in a lighted area.

Now, the next issue. The Force FX saber is very quiet when compared to the other companies as well. I haven't seen a good fix for this yet besides drilling holes in the bottom but it still leaves it fairly quiet. It does have the nice crackling noises in it, but all the others can have multiple sound fonts loaded into them too whereas the Force FX cannot. Here's a video displaying TFA sound font:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF32ZRE4qAc

So, what are your guy's thoughts here?

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

So, something I figured out is that the Saberforge sabers can only have two sound fonts at this time and cannot be changed, simply a light and dark side font. The Emerald driver for the Ultrasabers sabers has programmable sound fonts than can be cycled through and different ones uploaded. Saberforge and Ultrasabers can both be setup to pulse like the Force FX one too. Part of me wants to just get the Force FX one and modify it with removable blades as I don't intend to use it for dueling. Also, while I'm in there I can upgrade the speaker. This would at least give me the right hilt, removable blades, upgraded lighting, and a louder saber that has the correct sound font. Also, it would still retain the iconic activation sequence Kylo's saber has. It would also come out quite a bit cheaper than an Ultrasabers or Saberforge setup too, as the ones I priced were topping 550+.

 

[Hdjoe]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

If you do plan to mod the force fx, which is what I want to do with mine.... Please post up whatever you do! I wanna get in on improved lighting and sound.

 

[svander]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

As an ultra sabers owner (not a flamberge but a different model) their emerald driven sabers with their obsidian 4 soundboard are very bring and very loud. You're also correct, you can have up to 8 sound fonts you can cycle through and the emerald driver is configurable to pretty much any color you want.

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

If you do plan to mod the force fx, which is what I want to do with mine.... Please post up whatever you do! I wanna get in on improved lighting and sound.

I most definitely will. From what I've seen most just drill 1/4" holes in the part that screws into the hilt near the speaker. Some have said this even doubles the sound output and that a replacement speaker shouldn't be required at that point. As far as the lighting goes from what I've seen the conversion simply involves disassembling the saber, removing the LED string from the main saber, replacing it with a 12w LED one, soldering a bit on the board, getting some blade plugs, drilling holes in the emitters, and adding a couple allen screws to hold the blades in place. This will give you removable blades, the same brightness that the Ultrasabers and Saberforge have, and pretty decent sound although it's just Kylo's sound font. Upside is that you'll have the blade flicker, Kylo's activation sequence, a hilt that matches Kylo's, and probably be 300 bucks or so cheaper than an Ultrasabers or Saberforge with similar sound and light output. Only downside is it won't be dueling capable which for me isn't a big deal as I'm using it for cosplay.

As an ultra sabers owner (not a flamberge but a different model) their emerald driven sabers with their obsidian 4 soundboard are very bring and very loud. You're also correct, you can have up to 8 sound fonts you can cycle through and the emerald driver is configurable to pretty much any color you want.

I will agree, the Emerald driver is amazing as to what it can do. I like that different sound fonts can be programmed into it whereas the Saberforge you only get what they give you. At least on both you can change the pulse, flash on clash coloring, main blade coloring, and have a duel ready saber. Obviously though these come with a hefty price.

 

[Hdjoe]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

I most definitely will. From what I've seen most just drill 1/4" holes in the part that screws into the hilt near the speaker. Some have said this even doubles the sound output and that a replacement speaker shouldn't be required at that point. As far as the lighting goes from what I've seen the conversion simply involves disassembling the saber, removing the LED string from the main saber, replacing it with a 12w LED one, soldering a bit on the board, getting some blade plugs, drilling holes in the emitters, and adding a couple allen screws to hold the blades in place. This will give you removable blades, the same brightness that the Ultrasabers and Saberforge have, and pretty decent sound although it's just Kylo's sound font. Upside is that you'll have the blade flicker, Kylo's activation sequence, a hilt that matches Kylo's, and probably be 300 bucks or so cheaper than an Ultrasabers or Saberforge with similar sound and light output. Only downside is it won't be dueling capable which for me isn't a big deal as I'm using it for cosplay

i did drill holes in the bottom part, and even drilled out the dimples on the pommel.. Sound is improved but not twice the output. It still pales in comparison to my old 05 Vader master replica saber.
I do want brighter lights, remove able blades would be ok but not needed. I have mine mounted on my sons wall for now, and when we buy our second home... They'll be mounted in the theater room.
I actually want to increase brightness on both sabers as well as any future ones I get. Wonder if there's a tutorial for the older master blades.....

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

i did drill holes in the bottom part, and even drilled out the dimples on the pommel.. Sound is improved but not twice the output. It still pales in comparison to my old 05 Vader master replica saber.
I do want brighter lights, remove able blades would be ok but not needed. I have mine mounted on my sons wall for now, and when we buy our second home... They'll be mounted in the theater room.
I actually want to increase brightness on both sabers as well as any future ones I get. Wonder if there's a tutorial for the older master blades.....

I may see if anyone has come up with a replacement speaker that has some better output as well. Obviously it wouldn't be hard to install a better one. With the 12w LED main blade and the 6w LED side blades you should have the same light output compared to the Ultrasabers or Saberforge blades.

 

[clancampbell]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

I may see if anyone has come up with a replacement speaker that has some better output as well. Obviously it wouldn't be hard to install a better one. With the 12w LED main blade and the 6w LED side blades you should have the same light output compared to the Ultrasabers or Saberforge blades.

Some folks have replaced the speaker with beefier versions and it's had no effect on the output. I believe they said it's the actual board that's at fault for limiting volume.

Rich

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

Some folks have replaced the speaker with beefier versions and it's had no effect on the output. I believe they said it's the actual board that's at fault for limiting volume.

Rich

Thank you for posting this. I've been doing lots of digging to try and find info but haven't come up with much regarding the sound output minus drilling the holes and attempting to do a better speaker.

I am still leaning towards the Force FX saber and modifying it at this point simply because I want something that matches Kylo Ren's. The other hilts don't match closely enough, plus they're gonna be another 250+ dollars on top of a modified Force FX. Now, if they had a hilt that was more closely designed to his and had the staggered ignition I'd be all over it.

 

[clancampbell]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

Thank you for posting this. I've been doing lots of digging to try and find info but haven't come up with much regarding the sound output minus drilling the holes and attempting to do a better speaker.

I am still leaning towards the Force FX saber and modifying it at this point simply because I want something that matches Kylo Ren's. The other hilts don't match closely enough, plus they're gonna be another 250+ dollars on top of a modified Force FX. Now, if they had a hilt that was more closely designed to his and had the staggered ignition I'd be all over it.

I really like my Force FX Kylo saber......yes, it's a little bit big, yes, the quillons are a bit stumpy, but i feel it captures the screen saber really well.

Rich

 

[The Mad Professor]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

I am still leaning towards the Force FX saber and modifying it at this point simply because I want something that matches Kylo Ren's. The other hilts don't match closely enough, plus they're gonna be another 250+ dollars on top of a modified Force FX.

I would suggest getting the Force FX and replacing the guts with an Ultrasabers Emerald setup. Might cost a pretty penny, but damn it would be cool.

Now, if they had a hilt that was more closely designed to his and had the staggered ignition I'd be all over it.

Hmmm... if you could get it that small, I'd suggest placing an ON DELAY timing relay on the main blade power circuit after the main blade LED and having it set to 0.5sec with the contact on the side blade circuit.

Basically, this:




The basic operation goes like this.

1) Power starts
2) Voltage is sent to the MAIN BLADE LED which turns it on (lighting the blade) and then continues to the main coil of the TIMING RELAY, which starts a countdown.
3) Voltage is also sent to a normally open contact on the TIMING RELAY, but cannot continue through because the circuit is open.
4) Once the countdown is complete (the length of which is dependent on the relay and is sometimes adjustible... I chose half a second because it seems reasonable), the coil trips, which causes the normally open contact to close. This allows the power to continue to the SIDE BLADE LEDs.

So basically, what you'll get is the ignition switch gets pressed and the main blade ignites. Half a second later, the side blades ignite.

 

[Kouri]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

I would suggest getting the Force FX and replacing the guts with an Ultrasabers Emerald setup. Might cost a pretty penny, but damn it would be cool..

I'd actually recommend a Spark 2 board from Naigon's Electronic Creations. Blade Pulse, Staggered Ignition, sound, and support for the latching-switch already built into the FX hilt.

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

I really like my Force FX Kylo saber......yes, it's a little bit big, yes, the quillons are a bit stumpy, but i feel it captures the screen saber really well.

RichView attachment 592780View attachment 592780View attachment 592781

My thoughts as well. There no hilt out there yet besides doing a 3D printed one that matches as good as the Force FX one.

I would suggest getting the Force FX and replacing the guts with an Ultrasabers Emerald setup. Might cost a pretty penny, but damn it would be cool.



Hmmm... if you could get it that small, I'd suggest placing an ON DELAY timing relay on the main blade power circuit after the main blade LED and having it set to 0.5sec with the contact on the side blade circuit.

Basically, this:

View attachment 592795


The basic operation goes like this.

1) Power starts
2) Voltage is sent to the MAIN BLADE LED which turns it on (lighting the blade) and then continues to the main coil of the TIMING RELAY, which starts a countdown.
3) Voltage is also sent to a normally open contact on the TIMING RELAY, but cannot continue through because the circuit is open.
4) Once the countdown is complete (the length of which is dependent on the relay and is sometimes adjustible... I chose half a second because it seems reasonable), the coil trips, which causes the normally open contact to close. This allows the power to continue to the SIDE BLADE LEDs.

So basically, what you'll get is the ignition switch gets pressed and the main blade ignites. Half a second later, the side blades ignite.

This makes sense that you could set it up that way, but it would be much easier to just do a Spark 2 board like Kouri said. That board has all the abilities of the Ultra Sabers Emerald Driver and is cheaper.

I'd actually recommend a Spark 2 board from Naigon's Electronic Creations. Blade Pulse, Staggered Ignition, sound, and support for the latching-switch already built into the FX hilt.

This is what I've seen as well. This is probably the best route to get the most out of the Force FX setup. I think I'll probably just get the Force FX one, modify it for removable blades with the 12w main LED, 6w side LED's, drill the holes for the allen screws for the blades, drill holes for the speaker vent, and just run with that for a while. Most likely I'll end up purchasing a saber from Saberforge or Ultrasabers that can be used to duel as the Force FX one won't ever work for that without some replacement emitters.

 

[svander]

Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Fl...

Some good info in this video http://youtu.be/DmPrbn8uPMU

 

[Sandtracker]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

This makes sense that you could set it up that way, but it would be much easier to just do a Spark 2 board like Kouri said. That board has all the abilities of the Ultra Sabers Emerald Driver and is cheaper.

The Spark is also vastly superior to Ultrasabers' Emerald Driver.

 

[Kouri]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

with the 12w main LED, 6w side LED's

That's actually a lot of power consumption without much payoff. My recommendation would be a Tri-Cree RED LED Star for the main blade, and Single Cree RED stars for the side blades. They're easy enough to pick up at LED Supply:

http://www.ledsupply.com/leds/cree-xlamp-xp-e2-color-high-power-led-star

For the Tri, you'd want to remove the jumpers and wire all three LEDs in parallel. Using the 3.7v lithium-ion required for the NEC cards, each LED in the setup will need a 1ohm 2W resistor to run at 1000mA. The side blades are short enough that the single LEDs are more than enough to light them up.

If you wanted to upgrade the card to a Spark-Color or Igniter for a bright flash on impact, they also sell custom stars so you can order a Red/Red/White or Red/Red/Green for an off-white or yellow-orange flash.

Either way, 5A is still a lot of power to ask of a battery, so you'll need a high-output 18650 or 26650 to get the most brightness out of this setup.

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

Thank you for the help on that! I just put in the order for a Force FX saber and will be modifying it.

 

[TheAutoTech]

Re: Force FX v.s. Makoto Crossguard v.s. Saberforge Templar v.s. Ultra Sabers Flambe

After much consideration and researching the Force FX saber seemed to be the best option. Saberforge and Ultrasabers don't yet make a hilt similar to Kylo's besides just being a crossguard style. They are passable, but not close enough to meet what I'm looking for. Also, the Saberforge Templar doesn't yet have the Hero upgrade for the Spark board, just the regular 2-font sound board that isn't programmable and I won't use it if it doesn't have Kylo's sound font so that one is out at this point. The Ultrasabers sabers are built very nicely but the Spark board is vastly superior to the Emerald driver. So, for myself until Saberforge puts a Spark board in their Templar my best bet is to get a Force FX and modify it to suit my needs.