Does today's generation "see/understand" TV and movies differently?
- Thread starter blewis17
- Start date
- Status
Well, it's a mixed blessing, really.
Back in my day, if someone was a deep Star Trek fan, chances are they also read a lot and could appreciate the difference between hard sci fi and space opera. Within the population of geeks you could discover tabletop RPGs (not just D&D but Aftermath, Stormbringer, Dragon Quest, Traveller, Space Opera, GURPS) and, of course, comic books. These hobbies were deep, elaborate and made the communities strong.
But being a geek also marginalized you from the general public who had no idea what we were about. The life of a geek kid in the 70's was particularly challenging if you had plans to procreate one day.
Cephus
Master Member
That's only if those were your only interests. I knew someone, many years back in the TNG era, who used to go to job interviews in a Star Trek uniform and couldn't figure out why they weren't getting hired. We're probably better off if those people don't breed. However, if you had a healthy range of interests, you don't have a problem at all.
*Takes down notes for next interview.*
JPH
Sr Member
Ever heard of the computer game Kingdom Come: Deliverance?
It marketed itself as a historically accurate game in 15th century Central Europe. Historians were hired for accuracy. Heck! In the beginning of the game you even help your father make a sword using historically correct techniques!
The primary criticism of the game was that it "white-washed" the population. And by "white-washed," what the complainers meant was that there wasn't enough "diversity" in the game even though the game was actually *correct* in its depiction.
*THIS* is what we are dealing with.
People who have no clue, insisting others embrace what they *want* to be true.
Education, multi-faceted and contextual research, understanding reality, experience...not relevant.
and their opinion cancels out yours.
Last edited:
HeartBlade
Sr Member
Thats sad, especially since KCD is a great game.
I do think the argument that “work is art and art is subjective” is just a means to skirt away from proper criticism. Yes, art can be subjective in how it provides feeling to the viewer but art can be assessed in an objective way. That is why we have art historians, art professionals, and why a Monet or a Picasso goes for millions of dollars while my doodle of a dog MIGHT get placed on the refrigerator door.
To also say art is art is also honestly offensive to good art because by saying its subjective, you are essentially arguing that all art is equal. No art has any more merit than others because “its all subjective.” Jurassic Park is equally good as Jurassic World as the Room. After all, art is “subjective.”
Thats not to say that people cant enjoy “bad art.” People can enjoy watching The Room for being corny and possibly the worst movie ever made. To say that The Room is then equally as good as The Godfather or Citizen Kane should get some looks though.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
Black Panther was the first movie with black people. How dare you question Disney.
Isnt not like we had black superhero movies like Shaft or Blade. Or a black man play the main character like Dawn of the Dead…
Axlotl
Master Member
I'll see your Dawn of the Dead and raise you Night of the Living Dead.
I hope the game designers realize that the people who complain about lack of diversity in video games are NOT the people who actually purchase or play them. There is a pocket of activists who actively seek out cases in television, video games, sports etc. only so they can build some grievance for public exposure.
Last edited:
joberg
Legendary Member
I never counted on Hollywood to teach me History...
Cephus
Master Member
That's been true forever though. The entire comics industry tanked because they were pandering to people who didn't read the comics regardless, while ignoring the people who did. The same has happened in video games and movies and TV shows. They're listening to the loudest voices, not the ones actually consuming their product, in hopes that they might attract new viewers, but they don't. These social justice losers are parasites, locusts that fly from industry to industry, destroying everything and moving on. They don't actually care about any of it, they're just looking for an excuse to be upset.
Picard102
Sr Member
So then what's the issue?
Picard102
Sr Member
Ya, the amount of people complaining about KC
lack of diversity is probably equal to the number of people who complain about too much diversity in anything else. Both loud, not necessarily representative of anything real.
Solo4114
Master Member
I guess it'd depend on how accurate it really was. If there honestly were no, say, black people around, then that'd be one thing. But if, for example, Skalitz historically did business with Algerian traders or whatever, I could see saying "There should at least be other people around who are people of color." I dunno. I think people's perceptions of history, though, are often not actually that historically accurate and they might be surprised to learn that history was different. Surprised enough to just reject it out of hand in some cases.
I think you can choose artistic reasons to cast someone else who doesn't fit that bill. It depends on what you're trying to do with your story and why you're trying to do it. But let's also not pretend that Hollywood gives a damn about historical accuracy when it almost never does.
I've posted about this before, but the TV show Vikings -- which aired on the History Channel -- was wildly historically inaccurate, and not just because it's based on sagas which are themselves of questionable historical accuracy. I'm talking, like, "Nobody really opened a book about this, did they?" levels of inaccuracy.
Examples: They make it seem like the Norsemen of the late 700s knew nothing of England, when they had already been trading with England for some time. Now, maybe we can excuse that as "Yes, but these specific Norsemen have no idea what England is," but it's still a stretch.
The Jarl of Ragnar's town gets pissy when the guys sail off, and summarily maims a blacksmith. In addition to this being like intentionally trashing the ONE factory that makes cars for you (blacksmiths were skilled labor back then), jarls had nowhere near that level of authority in Norse culture, which actually operated in a quasi-democratic fashion more often than not. Yet they have this guy acting like a generic feudal lord who can do whatever he wants with impunity. Not remotely accurate. The outfits tend to be inaccurate, too, nobody wears a helmet, etc., etc.
When they land in England, we're shown King Aella of Northumbria as one of the first English monarchs (heptarchs?) reigning during that era. Later, the main characters engage in the famed raid on the Holy Isle of Lindisfarne. So, what's inaccurate about that, you ask? Well, nothing, as long as you'd also be fine with a film that depicts Abraham Lincoln signing the Louisiana Purchase, or a story involving, say, JFK winning the presidential election of 1892. Aella ruled from around 862 until 867 when he was killed by Ragnar's ADULT sons. The raid on Lindisfarne happened some 70 years prior. It'd be like having Chuck Berry play Johnny B. Goode for Queen Victoria. But, of course, nobody cares because, whatever, it's just a show, it's just meant to entertain.
If you actually know anything about this era of history, it's glaringly inaccurate. But people don't, and so they don't care. And, I guess, why should they? Vikings is still a really fun, entertaining show, it's just...you know, not really historically accurate at all. But even if you do know about the history, it's ultimately not that big a deal when you just settle back and accept that this is gonna be an historic-ish show that's more about cool action than accurately portraying history.
JPH
Sr Member
The complainers won't buy the game, typically never would have bought the game, but that isnt the issue. They will spam the world with their ignorance proclaiming the game is "racist" in an effort to kill the project. Either shame the designers or choke public interest. They don't always succeed, but they damn well try.
"Racist" now being defined as "anyone who can use a factual, rational or moral argument to humiliate the complainers."
The irony is that a show or movie or game that happily preys on exaggerated stereotypes but is deemed "cool" will be *PRAISED* by the very same virtue-signalling, uneducated, zombie mob.
Diversity vs Forced Diversity.
Read the I Hate Star Trek Discovery thread...
"This character is poorly written."
RESPONSE: Well yeah, but she's female and black. Cut her a break.
Wha-wha-wha-WHAT?!?!?
Cephus
Master Member
But isn't that the whole point of this thread? Debate is a lost art on the young most of the time. It's all about who can scream the loudest and get the most attention, not who can make the best points and support their arguments with the best evidence. Every time we point out what they're doing wrong, they scream and cry and whine, like we're putting an undue burden on them and then they go back to screaming shrilly because that's the only thing they know how to do.
Just wait, I bet someone will respond to this post denying it, then they'll scream and cry some more.
"Nazi" is anyone they don't like. These people act like 5-year olds.
I don't think these people are smart enough to even realize what they're doing. That's just the way the world works, according to the ridiculous snowflakes.
Someday, hopefully, they'll grow up and see just how stupid they've looked all along.
JPH
Sr Member
It is called the Godwin argument.
And they dont act like 5 year olds, *THEY* act like NAZIS.
But that is how projection works, they accuse others of THEIR OWN issue.
Ultimately, this thread will end up political because one side values what they have achieved while the other side benefits from it, then minimizes it. All in the name of "equality" but really it is just a hearty middle-finger to hard work and earned experience.
I'd still love to hear why anyone might like or hate something I hate or like, and if you can't explain it...okay, just say so! But bullying an opinion that you cant articulate or full of conflicts doesnt work well on people with active BS detectors.
Last edited:
- Status
