Darth Maul Costume Templates/Patterns

[Kwally89]

Hey guys,

This is the thread where I'm going to officially release the Maul costume patterns that are drafted from a Pepsi costume. Contrary to popular belief, the Pepsi costume is directly descended from screen used costumes. I know this because Eopie Herder and I have researched it thoroughly and contacted the company that produced the costumes for the Pepsi statues. We have also thoroughly compared it to known production costumes, and it is very close if not identical.

I really hope this will turn into a great place to start a screen accurate Maul costume. I have always admired guys like WOF (created templates for EVERY part of a Fett costume and gave them away for free), and I think acts such as that are rare in elite propbuilding/costuming communities.

I will continually update this first post with newer/better drafts of my patterns and additional information. I will also attach Kaane's loin and belt pattern.

**NOTE** I would love to hear constructive criticism. I do NOT want to hear someone say "that isn't accurate because I said so". Myself and many others have reason to believe that some people have misled costumers about certain components of this costume and the accuracy of the Pepsi costume. If you think someone is inaccurate and want to give input or help make it more accurate, we all would love to hear it. If you want to derail what myself and Eopie are trying to accomplish by discrediting our research without contribution to the project, I would appreciate it if you stay clear of this thread. I'm pretty much saying that you need to be specific if you're going to critique. Don't tell me that you know the correct shape/dimensions/fabrics, I'm wrong, and you're not telling us why you think I'm wrong....phew! Now, that I got that off my chest....

 

[WarpedScale]

Contrary to popular belief, the Pepsi costume is directly descended from screen used costumes. I know this because Eopie Herder and I have researched it thoroughly and contacted the company that produced the costumes for the Pepsi statues. We have also thoroughly compared it to known production costumes, and it is very close if not identical.

Difference #1:

The left is your photo of the Pepsi Maul collar, right is the SW exhibit. Pepsi Maul had a thinner collar, the stitching was much farther apart and did not taper as the original did.

If you can take a photo of how high the slit in the side of the inner robe on the Pepsi Maul goes, I can tell you the difference there with photos. If I remember right the Pepsi Maul's didn't go as high as the original. Also how many tucks/pleates are at the top of the Pepsi Maul's shoulders (where the sleeve meets the body) and how many go around the forearm. Good shots of both and I'll post a side by side to my old original and I'll post it next to a hero costume.

There are FAR too many little things in the original costume that a company mass producing replicas/statues would look or skate over for time's and cost's sake to say it's 'directly descended' or 'identical'. (See difference #1 above as one example), 'Descended' sure.

If anyone can get me those other pics of the Pepsi Maul, I'd greatly appreciate it.

**NOTE** ~SNIP~

I sincerely hope this wasn't directed at me. Please feel free to elaborate in a PM if you'd like to keep it off this thread.

 

[GINO]

**NOTE** I would love to hear constructive criticism. I do NOT want to hear someone say "that isn't accurate because I said so". Myself and many others have reason to believe that some people have misled costumers about certain components of this costume and the accuracy of the Pepsi costume. If you think someone is inaccurate and want to give input or help make it more accurate, we all would love to hear it. If you want to derail what myself and Eopie are trying to accomplish by discrediting our research without contribution to the project, I would appreciate it if you stay clear of this thread. I'm pretty much saying that you need to be specific if you're going to critique. Don't tell me that you know the correct shape/dimensions/fabrics, I'm wrong, and you're not telling us why you think I'm wrong....phew! Now, that I got that off my chest....

You have to understand that if one makes incorrect claims like a pattern or fabric is accurate, then they have to be prepared for people to refute those claims when they are wrong.
And that doesn't mean they have to divulge why, or what IS correct.

It all comes down to not wanting to see inaccurate information being spread as truth.
If someone says, I think it's close etc.. that's one thing. When someone says, 'this is accurate', and they are wrong, that can't be allowed to stand.

It seems as if you are saying, if you can't tell me what is correct, then I should be allowed to say something is accurate even if it's not.


.

 

[Kwally89]

Difference #1:

The left is your photo of the Pepsi Maul collar, right is the SW exhibit. Pepsi Maul had a thinner collar, the stitching was much farther apart and did not taper as the original did.

If you can take a photo of how high the slit in the side of the inner robe on the Pepsi Maul goes, I can tell you the difference there with photos. If I remember right the Pepsi Maul's didn't go as high as the original. Also how many tucks/pleates are at the top of the Pepsi Maul's shoulders (where the sleeve meets the body) and how many go around the forearm. Good shots of both and I'll post a side by side to my old original and I'll post it next to a hero costume.

There are FAR too many little things in the original costume that a company mass producing replicas/statues would look or skate over for time's and cost's sake to say it's 'directly descended' or 'identical'. (See difference #1 above as one example), 'Descended' sure.

If anyone can get me those other pics of the Pepsi Maul, I'd greatly appreciate it.



I sincerely hope this wasn't directed at me. Please feel free to elaborate in a PM if you'd like to keep it off this thread.

Thanks for the info my friend. The slit of the Pepsi costume goes nearly all the way up the side. The stitched section is about 11cm long from the bottom of the arm holes. I knew that the collar was one piece of the Pepsi costume that was off. I plan to tweak it to fit screen shots and pictures from the various exhibits.

The note wasn't really directed at you or anyone. You have actually contributed quite a bit more than MANY others who know details about the originals. I aimed that note at the general public because that sort of thing gets old. If anyone believes I am talking specifically about them, that suggests that they have done exactly what I was talking about. I am not and was not directing that statement at you.

People argue that if we knew details of the costume, people would make replicas and pass them off as originals. That is possible, but not likely. We have nearly EVERY detail/measurement/grain of sand :lol of Fett's costume over on the dented helmet....yet...all you have to do is become a member there, and you have instant access to all that information. There are no secrets or inner sanctums vowing to "protect" the secret of the costume. We want to give everyone the same chance to build a screen accurate costume. You shouldn't need to have connections or loads of money to find out costume specifics. Making a costuming is expensive by itself.

This is why the dented helmet is so much more enjoyable than the RPF (not better, just more enjoyable). It is a true online community. Though the RPF has A LOT more props that are bigger and better, it feels like every man for himself here. It is really too bad.

 

[KaanE]

I'm going to do the belt PDF's today, and then I will send them to you via PM or post them directly here, you decide

 

[Kwally89]

You have to understand that if one makes incorrect claims like this pattern or fabric is accurate, then they have to be prepared for people to refute those claims when they are wrong.
And that doesn't mean they have to divulge why, or what IS correct.

It all comes down to not wanting to see inaccurate information being spread as truth.
If someone says, I think it's close etc.. that's one thing. When someone says, 'this is accurate', and they are wrong, that can't be allowed to stand.


.

But you don't want accurate information spread...I really don't understand where you're going with this. How are we to believe that one thing is wrong and the other is right without any data? If someone told me that I was building a car wrong, but they weren't going to tell WHAT I was doing wrong....why would I care what they had to say? I would just fend for myself. The only time I have believed something without having evidence it is the truth is my belief in Christianity, and you're not ***** my friend :lol. (Hopefully, you realize I am trying to jest a bit and not be disrespectful .)

I'm trying to put this as respectfully as possible...some people (not necessarily myself) believe that certain individuals, yourself included, just don't want others to have accurate costumes. Maybe it is because of your crusade to protect someone from buying a replica as an original, or maybe you just don't want anyone to have a display that is as good as yours. I really don't know, and quite frankly, it isn't important to me. I am trying to give back to this community as MANY have given to me here and on the dented helmet.

Maybe the Pepsi costume isn't 100% screen accurate. I'm sure that your display isn't 100% accurate. I actually know that it isn't because your belt doesn't have the leather loop/ring that goes over the belt to hide the belt overlap. No one cares. You display is amazing. I am sure that Eopie, Kaane, and myself can produce patterns that are derived from the Pepsi costume but tweaked to fit screen accuracy. Either way, I'm sure community members will be happy. You wouldn't believe the PM's Eopie and I have received from people thanking us. Obviously, this is a costume that Star Wars fans have been denied for far too long.

I hope we can keep this conversation respectable. I really don't want a stupid and childish e-fight like you have had many other times (Emperor fabric, Vader display, etc). They were fun to read :lol, but I really don't want to start my own.

Thanks,
Kody

 

[Kwally89]

I'm going to do the belt PDF's today, and then I will send them to you via PM or post them directly here, you decide

Sounds great! Thanks!! I am probably going to post the inner tunic tonight. I had some refining to do, and my printer randomly started jamming every page....I guess it is a problem with the Canon MP480....nice :angry!

 

[GINO]

But you don't want accurate information spread...I really don't understand where you're going with this. How are we to believe that one thing is wrong and the other is right without any data? If someone told me that I was building a car wrong, but they weren't going to tell WHAT I was doing wrong....

The difference is that in building your car, you aren't putting the info out to the public saying, this is THE correct way to build it.
There is a responsibility when it comes to what is labeled accurate.

I'm trying to put this as respectfully as possible...some people (not necessarily myself) believe that certain individuals, yourself included, just don't want others to have accurate costumes.

Totally depends on WHY they want the accurate costume. If the reason is for them to 'troop' in, then I personally don't place value in that reason.
I don't expect others to feel the same as me, but that's how I feel.
I will say that I've never misled anyone when asked about something.

I am trying to give back to this community as MANY have given to me here and on the dented helmet.

Not everyone belongs to the costuming community. Not everyone feels that sensitive info should just be out in the open for EVERYONE to have access to. Who knows what certain people might want to do with that info.
And sharing with strangers is everyone's choice, I just choose to do it with close friends.

Maybe the Pepsi costume isn't 100% screen accurate. I'm sure that your display isn't 100% accurate. I actually know that it isn't because your belt doesn't have the leather loop/ring that goes over the belt to hide the belt overlap.

My belt has that loop. You're probably referring to the old pics on my site where it's not there. BTW, I'm not saying mine is 100% accurate, but it's super close.

I am sure that Eopie, Kaane, and myself can produce patterns that are derived from the Pepsi costume but tweaked to fit screen accuracy.

Again, you are throwing around the term 'screen accuracy' and using it too loosely. You can tweak the pepsi patterns to be closer to accurate, but they will never be screen accurate. And I'm not talking about 99% either.
This isn't a slam on your skills, it's just that the pepsi patterns are that far off.

Either way, I'm sure community members will be happy.

In the end, that's all that matters. The only time people like myself object is when terms like screen accurate get tossed around when they shouldn't.

I hope we can keep this conversation respectable.

Same here. I have no ill will towards you at all.
Just saying my peace.


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[KaanE]

Is impossible to have a costume 100% screen accurate to an original except if it's the original. Even if you buy a Gino's stormtrooper helmet it will never be 100% screen accurate, because the brow will never be at the exact place with an error of 0% And if you can get the brow to the 0% error (I doubt that), all the other details will never be with a 0% error.

So, we musn't use the term "screen accurate" because we're not going to get the 100% accuracy ever?

The best we're going to get is 99.99999...% and that's the best, so I, personally, think that we can use the term when something is really close to the real costume on screen, and that's what we're trying to get.

I don't think this info is going to hurt someone, and we're going to do the most close patterns aviable for free.

Conclusion, we're going to say them CLOSE, not SCREEN ACCURATE, but with that reasoning anyone will get the right to post "screen accurate", except if it's the real one used on screen, right? :thumbsup

Don't get me wrong Gino, I'm just commenting the thread Nice to see you here :thumbsup

 

[Kwally89]

The difference is that in building your car, you aren't putting the info out to the public saying, this is THE correct way to build it.
There is a responsibility when it comes to what is labeled accurate.

I just don't understand why you think that are appointed the one "responsible" for this information. You were in the same boat as I when you began your display. You had to research information and find what is accurate. The only difference is that you had access to a production costume. You really have no responsibility for any costume that you didn't create yourself. No one does. I don't even understand why you are on forums such as the RPF. Isn't the point of these forums to share our work and help others in their craft? I look at someone's piece and think to myself, "wow! I would love to tackle that!" If I wanted to view other people's work in a museum-like sense, I would look up screen used photos.

Totally depends on WHY they want the accurate costume. If the reason is for them to 'troop' in, then I personally don't place value in that reason.
I don't expect others to feel the same as me, but that's how I feel.
I will say that I've never misled anyone when asked about something.


Not everyone belongs to the costuming community. Not everyone feels that sensitive info should just be out in the open for EVERYONE to have access to. Who knows what certain people might want to do with that info.
And sharing with strangers is everyone's choice, I just choose to do it with close friends.

I don't troop and probably never will. I build my pieces for display purposes. I have an emotional attraction to movies and building replica props/costumes is something that increases my love for each character/film.

Again, you are throwing around the term 'screen accuracy' and using it too loosely. You can tweak the pepsi patterns to be closer to accurate, but they will never be screen accurate. And I'm not talking about 99% either.
This isn't a slam on your skills, it's just that the pepsi patterns are that far off. The only time people like myself object is when terms like screen accurate get tossed around when they shouldn't.

You always infer that you must have a production costume IN HAND to make something screen accurate. Are you to say that members on TDH have inaccurate Fett costumes because they didn't have an ACTUAL costume in hand when creating their replica? Bobamaker sculpted all of this pieces...I'd love to hear someone say that his armor and helmet aren't screen accurate.... It just doesn't make sense. If I use the Pepsi costume as a base and tweak it to match screen shots and exhibit photos, I'm sure that I can get it VERY close to screen accurate. Did you have a production Vader costume to base yours off of? How about an Emperor costume? You don't know that each one is flawless, but you researched the details heavily. Because of your research, they are mirror images of the originals. Saying that you or others can do this, but I can't IS a slam on my skills.

I don't need to have every stitch the same to say that something is 99% screen accurate. There is always a fudge factor. Films make many duplicates of a costume and each is slightly different. If a replica has the same measurements, proportions, fabric, sewing patterns, seams, etc, it is screen accurate.

Kody

 

[Kwally89]

Is impossible to have a costume 100% screen accurate to an original except if it's the original. Even if you buy a Gino's stormtrooper helmet it will never be 100% screen accurate, because the brow will never be at the exact place with an error of 0% And if you can get the brow to the 0% error (I doubt that), all the other details will never be with a 0% error.

So, we musn't use the term "screen accurate" because we're not going to get the 100% accuracy ever?

The best we're going to get is 99.99999...% and that's the best, so I, personally, think that we can use the term when something is really close to the real costume on screen, and that's what we're trying to get.

I don't think this info is going to hurt someone, and we're going to do the most close patterns aviable for free.

Conclusion, we're going to say them CLOSE, not SCREEN ACCURATE, but with that reasoning anyone will get the right to post "screen accurate", except if it's the real one used on screen, right? :thumbsup

Don't get me wrong Gino, I'm just commenting the thread Nice to see you here :thumbsup

That is what I'm saying. There is a difference between screen used and screen accurate. Screen accurate means that the replica is indistinguishable from the originals minus VERY VERY small details. It is accurate to what you would see on screen. No one can claim their piece is an exact replica of a production used costume unless they recreated EVERYTHING. Even then you might miss something that is seemingly insignificant. The only time this isn't true is when someone molds a screen used prop. Obviously we can't do this with clothing.

Kody

 

[KaanE]

Also if you cast it, it will have a little shrink, and the paintjob will never be Screen Accurate at 100% :lol

 

[Eopie Herder]

This really got out of hand quick. Yes, the Pepsi costume has differences, it's not hard to see them. But they can be changed. The purpose of the original thread was to help create the best possible recreation of the costume. Anyone that wants to add to it to make it more accurate then we thank you, if not that is your choice, and we won't ask anyone to change their mind. If there is a problem with what has been said to this point, please take it to PMs from here on out try to refrain from posting it in this thread.

 

[GINO]

I hear you. And I mostly agree with what you are saying.

I just think that the pieces that get to be called screen accurate have to be VERY close to what actually is. I agree, nothing is ever going to be 100%.

I think you guys will end up with a costume better than (if not the best readily available) what is out there.
And for the record, I totally applaud your efforts to improve upon and strive for more accurate things.
I think it is important to be realistic about the limitations of what you have to work with (in this particular case I'm referring to the pepsi maul).
There is in no way that using that as a base will bring you to a place where it would qualify as screen accurate.
You can do your best to get it closer, but that is all. And this doesn't reflect on your abilities at all. If I had to start with the pepsi maul, I would say the same thing about myself.

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[Kwally89]

I hear you. And I mostly agree with what you are saying.

I just think that the pieces that get to be called screen accurate have to be VERY close to what actually is. I agree, nothing is ever going to be 100%.

I think you guys will end up with a costume better than (if not the best readily available) what is out there.
And for the record, I totally applaud your efforts to improve upon and strive for more accurate things.
I think it is important to be realistic about the limitations of what you have to work with (in this particular case I'm referring to the pepsi maul).
There is in no way that using that as a base will bring you to a place where it would qualify as screen accurate.
You can do your best to get it closer, but that is all. And this doesn't reflect on your abilities at all. If I had to start with the pepsi maul, I would say the same thing about myself.

.

I thank you for this response. I think we can just let it go and end on a high note. I am not mad at you for your position. I just feel differently, and there is nothing wrong that.

Thanks,
Kody

 

[KaanE]

That's the best discussion end I have ever seen over the RPF

Now going to the topic, I'm doing the PDF's right now :love

 

[Kwally89]

Now going to the topic, I'm doing the PDF's right now :love

Sounds good my friend. I have the inner tunic pattern all full sized and printed. I just need to get them all blocked out and looking pretty. I hope to have them ready by the weekend.

Kody

 

[Kwally89]

FYI:

I asked a mod to merge this thread with the old one because this one is useless now. I'll open a tutorial thread where I will release the finished patterns later. I didn't really want a ton of off topic discussion. No worries though!

Kody

 

[KaanE]

Where? I have the templates at hand right now!!! :lol

 

[GINO]

You were in the same boat as I when you began your display. You had to research information and find what is accurate. The only difference is that you had access to a production costume.

Having a production made item in hand to cast, or reverse engineer, makes a universe of difference.

Isn't the point of these forums to share our work and help others in their craft?

Depends on who you ask. I think sometimes a lot of people (not you necessarily) assume or that people on prop forums are obligated to further the efforts of everyone else. They can sometimes feel entitled.
I think that you'll find that most people who collect the good stuff are more likely to share with trusted friends vs. strangers.
Some people just like to see other people's endeavors as well as show off their own. There is a ton of motivation and inspiration to be gained just by that alone. Doesn't mean you have to spill your guts about everything you know in order to contribute or get something back.

You always infer that you must have a production costume IN HAND to make something screen accurate.

Absofrikkinlutely. Otherwise you are just making big guesses.

Are you to say that members on TDH have inaccurate Fett costumes because they didn't have an ACTUAL costume in hand when creating their replica? Bobamaker sculpted all of this pieces...I'd love to hear someone say that his armor and helmet aren't screen accurate....

Yes, I'm saying that.
As far as Fett costuming has gotten, it still has miles to go to catch up to the level of accurate reproduction of other characters. That is mostly because of the lack of real screen used or production made boba pieces out in the public arena.

If I use the Pepsi costume as a base and tweak it to match screen shots and exhibit photos, I'm sure that I can get it VERY close to screen accurate.

I respectfully disagree. I would say you could get it closer, but not very close.

Saying that you or others can do this, but I can't IS a slam on my skills.

That's not what I'm saying at all.
As far as my stuff goes, I would say half is attributed to access to real pieces or reference, and the other half is having a critical eye.
If I had to work with the exact same tools as you, I'm not saying that I'd necessarily to a better job. It's not about your skills as much as it is the limitations of what is available to use.

I don't need to have every stitch the same to say that something is 99% screen accurate. There is always a fudge factor. Films make many duplicates of a costume and each is slightly different.

I think saying every stitch is a bit of an exaggertation. But REAL measurements, proportions, fabrics, patterns, construction details, etc.. are critical and essential to even begin to use the terminology screen accurate.

If a replica has the same measurements, proportions, fabric, sewing patterns, seams, etc, it is screen accurate.

Agreed, but in this case using the pepsi maul as your base, none of those things you mentioned will get you in the screen accurate range.
Only access to something real will, no matter how good your eye or skills are (myself included).


edit:
Sorry, I was typing this post before a lot of these others so I won't keep the OT going unless you want to keep discussing it.


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