Costume Accuracy vs. Publics Views

[jadedskies]

I reenact Civil War and WW2 history and we've had pros and cons over the swastika. It has its place on the German side reenactors, and veterans that tell their stories (German and others alike) will tell you that it either provokes pride or hate. But tell that to the Oklahoma Army regiment that had the swastika as their symbol before the Nazis twisted it.

just be careful when you wear it anywhere other than a con or reenactment. I know people that have gotten ARRESTED for the blasted thing.

DragonCon has a beautiful history reenactment group. But the only Nazis I remember where the ones with the Indiana Jones group or the ones that the 'americans" took as prisoners of war. Those were some beautiful SS costumes they had recreated.

jen

 

[BDK]

I'd just wear it for re-enacting. Not for a custom costume thats just asking for trouble. If going for say a 100% accurate SS uniform use it, it was there and its history. But if its something of your own design then leave it off.

 

[Tk-Devo]

Wow this thread has gotten a lot of response to it! Thank you for everyones replies!

There were actually 2 costumes I was considering, the first was Tom Cruise's character in Valkyrie when they are in the deserts of africa (Afrika Korps). For the second it was inspired by something I was reading a few months back about all of the secret weapons the Germans worked on during the war, and I thought about mixing a german soldier with a rocketeer type helmet and jetpack to it, not the same helmet and jetpack obviously, but similar to that kind of thing.

Still mulling over the whole Swazi thing though.

 

[Bradleyfett]

I like the Rocketeer idea- with more of a sci-fi edge like that, folks are more likely to tolerate the swas if you decide to use it. Personally, I'd do what Kenner did with the Indiana Jones toys and substitute some similarly sized geometric shape in its place just to avoid any hassle. If you incorporate a lot of other colors/decor from WWII German uniforms into your design, the absense of the swas won't hurt the overall look or recongizability factor and you'll have a much better weekend wearing it! You could always make it removable/interchangable and display the swas on the costume if you have it displayed at home.


Mark

Wow this thread has gotten a lot of response to it! Thank you for everyones replies!

There were actually 2 costumes I was considering, the first was Tom Cruise's character in Valkyrie when they are in the deserts of africa (Afrika Korps). For the second it was inspired by something I was reading a few months back about all of the secret weapons the Germans worked on during the war, and I thought about mixing a german soldier with a rocketeer type helmet and jetpack to it, not the same helmet and jetpack obviously, but similar to that kind of thing.

Still mulling over the whole Swazi thing though.

 

[KevVader]

I've started to work on a new costume for the upcoming con season, this particular costume involves a WWII German Uniform. So heres my question, should I go for costume accuracy and have the full uniform or go for what the public would view as "right" and not put the swastika? I personally think its ok to put it on there because its a costume, but what do you guys think?

Agreed....wear it.
One could argue that the hammer & sickle instills as much malice as the swastika, yet I see the hammer/sickle quite often in many different forms and few seem to mind. If one is going to pontificate to you at a Con about the evil of the swastika, then they have far too much time on thier hands...it's a costume! I wouldn't worry about it...

 

[defstartrooper]

Some of the replies surprise me i mean come on are there really people out there who see a swastika on a Nazi uniform at a con or re-enactment and truly think the person wearing it is a Nazi ?
Regardless of that how is wearing a Nazi uniform not going to be associated with the Nazi's swastika or not ?

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

well, what if you reversed the symbol??? isn't it a possitive meaning when its turned the other way??? That way your bases are covered, people would know what you are and if they try to argue with you, explain the difference

My friend went out as Master of the Flying Guillotine and it has that symbol on the robes. People asked him if he was Nazi *****. Face it, that symbol is forever tainted now, and I don't care how many people try to sugar coat it as what it was, it is now and forever a swastika. Another Hitler legacy. :angry

That said, I would not wear it to a con because I guarantee people will be upset by it.

 

[micdavis]

In re-enactment situation it's fine. At a convention, no way. But then I've never thought military "costumes" are much of a costume to start with. Even the Stargate guys, yeah its from a show, but in these fear filled days, it's just asking for trouble.

 

[dbuck]

I wouldn't wear a swastika to a con, and I wouldn't wear a Klan robe, either, or any other number of historical costumes that produce emotional responses.
It is not just a symbol. It's a symbol of predjudice and genocide. I guarantee there will be people at that con who will have lost relatives in a camp.
Were you to be portraying a nazi in a group being beaten by "Indy", or 'Captain America', than I don't anyone would blink an eye, but just walking around......
You can wear it in the interests of accuracy if you want, but I honestly think you do so at your own risk. Even changing the symbol around may not be enough, because the perception would still possibly be the same as if it were accurate. Even if you had a big neon sign saying "I'm Tom Cruise from Valkyrie" you still will probably catch heat somewhere.

 

[Spartan117]

Another thing that could be possible is just putting an X or a + in the same fashion instead of the swastika. Not sure if thats been said.

Personally though, I think itd be a bad idea to put the swastika on it.

 

[IndyFanChuck]

Just to ask a question, what if he goes as Kronen (spelling?) from Hellboy? I don't find that costume offensive, but the meaning of the Swastika and those who use it as a weapon of hatred and bigotry offend me.

I guess I would personally find ANY other costume in the known universe to wear, maybe one that didn't have such a terrible terrible history.

But then again, like I said, Kronen from Hellboy doesn't bother me so maybe I am just crazy! :confused

 

[rollerboi]

I would personally just leave it a blank white circle on a red background. The costume would still be instantly recognizable, with respect paid by the leaving off of the broken cross. No need to substitute another emblem, which would detract from the accuracy of the costume.

If you wish to display the outfit later (or participate in a reenactment), you could make a magnetic swastika to affix over the circle.

 

[SpyderDan]

Personally, I think you either do the costume 100% accurately, or not at all. Trying to make a kinder gentler nazi, to me, is far more offensive.

Working on the WW2 Call of Duty games, we have often had these same discussions. For the German version, all swastikas, SS runes, portraits of Hitler, or any other nazi-used symbols are strictly verboten. We even had to rename "Nazi Zombies" mode. You no longer shoot at nazis, but shoot at generic Germans instead.

The German laws about this subject don't reflect well on the German people, in my opinion. To me, it is nothing more than a pretense that none of this history ever happened. Portraying and embracing the history, no matter how ugly, is far better than denying it as if it never happened.

I think this sort of attitude only serves to empower the nazi symbols. If you have to hide it and worry about it, it still has power. Put it out there in the public view and call it what it is, and the power it had vanishes.

Nothing would impress me more than to see someone who was persecuted by the Nazis (not just Jews, but homosexuals and all non-"aryan" ethnicities) to start wearing swastikas themselves, and take away the power that still lingers with this imagery.

Perhaps the greatest example of this is the downward pointing triangle that has become a symbol for the homosexual community. Anybody know where that came from? That's right- the nazis used it on armbands and prisoner uniforms for gays. And then they took it back, for themselves.

 

[Goodwolf]

I would tend to think that the size of the con as well as the location would have something to do with what kind of reaction you'd get. If it's in a large city with a large attendance, you could be ok, but if you're in... say Bakersfield at a smaller venue you might be in trouble. I have an acquaintance at Dragon*Con who kits out in full SS gear or something similar every year.

Course, she's kinda hot so that may deflect a little venom, but so far she's never had people bat an eye. Her con name is even Panzer. *shrug* Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

Edit to add: It's sad that the Swastika has been so sorely bastardised. It's origins lie in Hindu practice. It actually translates roughly to "My well being." At a recent Hindi wedding I attended the Officiant had to actually stop and explain the history and significance of the Swastika to the audience, even the Hindus because the history of it has become so overpowered by the more modern accepted one.

 

[Heatshock]

as a poster before me and the orginal poster have mentioned - I have thought abt this particular problem as I am doing a Kroenen costume. In fact, its the so-called Kroenen Nazi costume.

I long decided against the swatika, and besides, hopefully my coat wont need to come off. this was mostly to do with the reaction it would potentially provoke, and more importantly the feelings it could hurt or incite. I like the idea of red cloth with the blank white circle.

I costume for personal pleasure, as well as for the pleasure of others. And its seems maintaining accuracy and not doing both of the above mentioned things would be counter productive.

but at the end of the day - its gonna be your choice. I take it that you will only be costuming up in the convention area; so its not like you will be on public transport etc etc

good luck

 

[Spartan117]

Edit to add: It's sad that the Swastika has been so sorely bastardised. It's origins lie in Hindu practice. It actually translates roughly to "My well being." At a recent Hindi wedding I attended the Officiant had to actually stop and explain the history and significance of the Swastika to the audience, even the Hindus because the history of it has become so overpowered by the more modern accepted one.

Sadly people don't like knowing it meant peace, the nazstika was reversed and askew, but to everyone else, a swastika is a swastika.


And Although accuracy is important, if its being displayed in public, theres bound to be at least one angry person.

But it would be nice to make it as accurate as you can until you get to the swastika, and just having it be removable.

 

[3cell]

Sadly people don't like knowing it meant peace, the nazstika was reversed and askew, but to everyone else, a swastika is a swastika.


And Although accuracy is important, if its being displayed in public, theres bound to be at least one angry person.

But it would be nice to make it as accurate as you can until you get to the swastika, and just having it be removable.

I think it comes down to your reason for attending the con.
Are you attending to make a statement or to enjoy the con?
While you might be able to do both, your question indicates you may not be comfortable with the swastika on your costume.
If this is the case you might want to forget the swastika and just enjoy the con. Either way, hope you have a Great Time!

 

[Onigiri]

'Swaztika' is from the SANSKRIT word 'svastik'. 'svazti-ka' actually translates to 'that which is associated with well being'.
This symbol was prevalent in Buddhism and Hinduism long before there was a Nazi Party. The symbol was for 'good luck'. The Swaztika could also be found in Germanic and Native American culture. It migrated to Japan along with Tibetan Buddhism.
The Nazi Party adopted it because it 'linked' modern Germany to their 'Aryan Forfathers' where the symbol was also attributed to victory and destiny. Wearing the Swaztika would be the same as American soldiers wearing a 'V' armband for victory.
A kid that sees it in anime is not seeing it (hopefully) as a 'Nazi Symbol' (unless its on a Nazi) so there shouldnt be a "thumbs down" necessarily for the parent EXCEPT that IMHO a responsible parent would caution their child that just because the kid knows what it is doesnt mean that the public who sees them wearing it will. Im sure theres also a lot of 'Bart Simpsons' out there that wear it TO shock and then try and get out of it by 'educating' the offended parties.
Theres also a commercially available sword from the anime 'bleach' that has the hand guard (tsuba) shaped like a swaztika.
I guess my thing to consider would be is that out of all the costume choices available would you really want to choose one that has the potential to affect people on such a visceral level?

I suppose that goes under free speech. Just as much as my desire to tell that parent they should have been born sterile. :thumbsdown I'm not aiming that at you by the way. I just think that is a screwed up thing to put a stamp of approval on for a kid.

 

[Onigiri]

I forgot to mention...dont forget what a hornets nest Prince Harry of England caused a few years ago when he showed up to a Halloween Party dressed as a Nazi officer.
It caused a huge uproar.

 

[Tk-Devo]

Thank you all for your replies! I think i'll opt for rolling without it, the costume is still in the planning and figuring everything out stage, so we'll see where it goes from here. Keep you all posted!