Classic Viper Build-up -- FINISHED!

[Jestefarean]

Thats interesting. MIM used the wrong side details on the right and left side. The right side is glaringly wrong...the left side is also, but closer. Id never seen it up close.

(no offemse...your buildup looks good, and it will look great done, I'm just stunned they went to the trouble to clean it up, but didn't use the right source material )

 

[PHArchivist]

How does it differ?

 

[Skyler101]

Originally posted by spcglider@aol.com@Jul 7 2005, 11:11 PM


Yup...that sweet old bird is still just as smokin' hot as she was in the late 1970's. Not a single "update" out there looks nearly as good.

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I totally agree with Space-glider on this one. The original Viper is still my favorite single seater space attack vehicle, with the design of the snow-speeder coming in a close second...

She has some great lines to her. I cant wait to start working on mine...

-Skyler101

 

[Jestefarean]

Originally posted by PHArchivist@Jul 7 2005, 11:28 PM
How does it differ?

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Easiest way to tell is look at the picture of this kit. Look at the mid right side detail. There are rivets across the top, a space in the middle, and then a 1/2 circle detail below. The right side is different then the left...which has the gear and two semi-circles. The MIM kit has the same detail on both sides. By the look of it they simply recast the detail from one side and placed it upside down on the other.

Proper right side:
http://home.comcast.net/~emyers20/RCN/viperpics/vipers2.jpg

Comparison MIM
http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/uploads/po...-1120789532.jpg


Id have to look at it up close, but there appear to be differences in the left side back detail as well. I think they used a casting or incorrect kit pieces to recover it.

Its long been assumed that nearly all the studio Viper models out there originate from the Icons patterns. This is based on some small inaccuracies in the Icons that have carried through all the other kits. One example is there is an intake detail on the originals that is not on the Icons, nor have I ever seen it on any other kit out there. Seeing the left side detail inverted on the right side makes me that much more positive that the MIM casting is simply a recast from the Icons pattern. (Why you ask? ) Well, the right side detail on the Icons pattern was messed up. I replaced it on the masters with the studio accurate part, but it was damaged long before I got it. Ive looked at 3 other studio Vipers I owned before the masters, and all have damaged right side details. (exactly like the Icons patterns) This includes an early MIM casting and a casting with a completely different fuselage configuration. So, now I see the new MIM redone piece and from the looks of it they fixed their problem simply by casting and inverting the left side detail to fix the right side. Ingenious, but inaccurate.

I don't mean to be nitpicky...99.99999999% of the people who see it when done will marvel at it and not notice the difference. Your buildup is going to be awesome, and I'm eagerly awaiting more updates. The Viper is a truly wonderful ship. I'm just suprised to see that they didn't fix this right.

 

[Tordoc]

I was wondering about that. Can you be sure that that is the way the original was cast, or is it possible that the detail 'fell off' and was lost and MIM just replaced the lost detail? I was debating whether or no to replace it on my build up. There are no good pictures of the port side of the original for comparison... at least none I am aware of.

 

[Jestefarean]

Originally posted by Tordoc@Jul 8 2005, 09:31 AM
I was wondering about that. Can you be sure that that is the way the original was cast, or is it possible that the detail 'fell off' and was lost and MIM just replaced the lost detail? I was debating whether or no to replace it on my build up. There are no good pictures of the port side of the original for comparison... at least none I am aware of.

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Im sure. I have some good pics of both sides, and I have a casting off an original to reference. The detail is actually significantly different. The gears and middle round pieces are not the only differences.

Ill send myself a reminder to post some reference tonight.

 

[Jestefarean]

Here are some pictures of a studio model from Starship Builder. It's hard to see, but if you look close youll notice they are different pieces.

http://www.starshipbuilder.com/studio-scal...ontOverhead.jpg

http://www.starshipbuilder.com/studio-scal...earOverhead.jpg

 

[Tordoc]

I am familiar with those photos and to me it is obvious that the MR Viper was cast from that miniature, but is the other 'hero' model with the open cockpit and pilot different on both sides? That is the one I'm trying to reproduce.

 

[Jestefarean]

Originally posted by Tordoc@Jul 8 2005, 11:57 AM
I am familiar with those photos and to me it is obvious that the MR Viper was cast from that miniature, but is the other 'hero' model with the open cockpit and pilot different on both sides? That is the one I'm trying to reproduce.

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Im sure there are folks more knowledgeable then me so please jump in...

But...from what I know ....there were several "hero" Vipers. While I have tried, I only have limited photo resources of them....that and a lot of screen captures lead me to believe these things:

1) The hero's, (like the ships in Star Wars) were not identical. There are small differences between them. Based on that, anything is possible.

2) All the Vipers were built using the same basic molds, and the differences that I note above appear to be small greblie add ons, coloring, or panel lines that were added after. Based on that, I would be suprised if the side or core details changed.

3) The details (gears, and knobs) are integral to the original detail piece used. They are not seperate. Therefore, someone just didn't decide to use extra or less knobs/gears on one side.

So...based on that and all the research I did I couldn't find any proof of the afte mid fuselage detail being different between the hero and non-hero Vipers and I couldn't find any pictures of actual props with the right side detail being a duplicate of the left side. Considering that, and the fact that I am positive (or fairly so) that MIM recast the Icons patterns (or a cast from them) and I believe thus it came with the flaws I saw I am fairly comfortable to a high degree of certainty that the detail was not duplicated on the right side upside down. (Ive taken a lot of screen caps too. ) All that being said...Im wrong all the time, and you should do what makes you happy. If you can find information that I'm wrong I'd love to hear it. That aside...if you just like it that way...well thats reason enough to do it the way you want.

 

[Jestefarean]

One other interesting (or interesting to me) note. The 1:1 mockup has a simplified version of the detail as shown on the left side...and the identical detail on the right side. (identical...so not the left upside down on the right, and not the detail I'm referring too on the right...but the same detail as on the left) There are several other detail descrepencies on the 1:1 as well.

 

[PHArchivist]

Jesse, the detail inside the left side intake -- do you have better pics of it? I'd noticed it too, and wondere just what I was looking at...

 

[PHArchivist]

Incidentally, these are the three models/pics I'm using as primary reference material:

 

[PHArchivist]

I posted the pics fairly small, but those familiar with these shots will know the bottom two Vipers are different models with varying finishes.

And I believe all three to be three individual models. AM I correct?

Does anyone have additional shots (besides the rest of the collection with the blue background)?

 

[Tordoc]

I am scribing mine with the extra paneling present on the model on the right. I just think it's the best looking one. I'm just 'making up' additional scribing for the starbord side.

 

[Jestefarean]

The one on the upper right is (I believe) the same one that was on the cover of Newsweek. That shot, BTW, is of a hero set up with the nitrogen bells going left to right so it shows the right side detail...and it confirms that the right side detail is in fact different from the left side and the same as the Icons Masters I have (fixed) I don't have my scanner online right now, so I can't scan it (sorry) and my file server is offline as well so I can't pull it from there...but if someone else has it and can post it youll see. *(sorry ...I am having a pool put in and had to shut down my office while they setup a dedicated circuit for the pool) Ill try and get something over the weekend, but I thought someone else my have the Newsweek pic)

As for the intake detail...I don't have a picture of it. It's visible on my casting, but barely...Im trying to recreate it ...but havent done it yet.

 

[PHArchivist]

Originally posted by PHArchivist@Jul 9 2005, 01:09 AM


And I believe all three to be three individual models.  AM I correct?

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(BTW-- The AM wasn't supposed to be all in caps for emphasis or anything -- just a caps key typo.)

 

[PHArchivist]

Newsweek cover? I've not heard of that...

 

[Jestefarean]

Originally posted by PHArchivist@Jul 8 2005, 11:35 PM
Newsweek cover?  I've not heard of that...

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There was a Newsweek at the end of 1970 that featured Galactica models on the cover. I can probably scan it tomorrow or Sunday.

 

[Jestefarean]

Originally posted by PHArchivist+Jul 8 2005, 11:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PHArchivist @ Jul 8 2005, 11:34 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-PHArchivist

@Jul 9 2005, 01:09 AM


And I believe all three to be three individual models.  AM I correct?

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(BTW-- The AM wasn't supposed to be all in caps for emphasis or anything -- just a caps key typo.)

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[/b]

As far as I know, yes. Two are heros, and there are differences between them, so I believe them to be all different.

 

[Tordoc]

Originally posted by Jestefarean@Jul 9 2005, 03:46 AM

There was a Newsweek at the end of 1970 that featured Galactica models on the cover.  I can probably scan it tomorrow or Sunday.

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Please.