Carbon-Freeze Vader Saber...an MPP. The Definitive ESB

[Justin WFCOMICS]

</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Oohyeah KL wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Justin, looks like you gotta take another trip to Universal Studios!!!

</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>I wish

!! I really liked Southern California. *sigh*... finances prohibit a visit anytime soon.

Justin =)
"Still stuck in Ohio..."

 

[Dan Verdi]

Not all King Sols have both the vertical and horizontal socket, as pictured above (Oohyeah KL's pic). I have to go back right up to the top of this thread and ask what Chris is asking: If it's not a King Sol, what is the "button" cusp in one of the "MPP" holes? Until that is definitively answered and identified, I'm sticking with my original King Sol theory.

-Dan

 

[SinkTube Jedi]

Did not this get hashed out to hell on ASAP!

Looks like a King Sol to me!

 

[lonepigeon]

I'm with Paul- Where did that pic come from?
It isn't the storybook pic or a closeup of the pic of Vader and Fett (that one doesn't show the bubbles, his cape covers the band).
So that is the third pic to show this lightsaber and it looks like one of the best.

The button- best guess right now seems like the base of a sync cord, but it doesn't look like the ones I've seen.

Are the grips longer? or is it just that the band is lower than the ANH? I think maybe a bit of both.

We need a bigger version of that pic OohYeahKL posted!
I'll go dig through more I've my reference and see if I can come up with something.
Edit- that is the same pic as in the storybook but bigger/showing more.

 

[Barnstormer]

Check me on this - the storybook picture shows the whole hilt. To the best of my knowledge, King Sols have a distinct endcap with no threading on the outside and a very narrow rounded/ridged 'coin edge' on the bottom, while the MPP has the thick, straight ridged endcap and threads on the outside. Does anyone have large and clear enough of a scan to see the bottom of the hilt?

Justin - It's a postcard, man. They can't only exist in California. I've got to run to Chicago Comics and see what they have, I know they have some SW postcards but don't know which ones. Gotta try Suncoast, too. We should be able to find this.

Checked the inside gatefold to the original soundtrack album, no luck. Gotta go through my piles of reference and see what versions of this photo I may have. This is the sort of pic I usually ignore now, because I've seen it so many times!

Now, if I find it, I've got to get my scanner working again...

 

[Oohyeah KL]

Yeah, the picture I posted is the same shot as in the storybook pic, except it shows a bit more of the hilt, including the clamp and top part of the grips. But it's the same shot as the storybook pic, so it's of no extra use if we're looking at the button/port holes.

In fact, it's also the same shot as the pic Chris/lonepigeon posted.
In other words (just so that we are all clear about this), all pics posted so far are the same shot, apart from the one Sithlife323 posted, which is of the same scene but with Vader turned away more so less of the saber is visible.

Can't remember where I got my pic from, but if I'm not mistaken it could be from the ASAP Defined thread.

BTW, interesting to note too that on the sidebar of the clamp, the round greeblie there looks rather large too, unlike what the end of the lever screw would look like, and more like the head of a nail, ie., what we seem to have concluded was used on the ANH version.

 

[Corellianexports]

Hmm...I think I bought that very postcard while I was at Universal Citywalk just a few weeks back.

I'll have to check it out.

I can post it if I've got it.

 

[clanger68]

Hi,
Here is a shot which I hope will help.
I'm afraid my scanner isn't the greatest but hopefully you can make out the image okay. I got a whole bunch of shots at a convention here in the UK a while ago, this is the only one I have with the saber in it. I'm not familiar with the King Sol but this does not look like my HK MPP.
Has the King Sol button come off in this shot?
Thats what it looks like to me.
Hope its useful,

 

[Oohyeah KL]

EXCELLENT PIC!!!

The plot thickens..!

Does that look like the port holes having a chunk cut out??

EDIT: hmm... maybe the MPP got wrecked this way, and they put something there (ie, the button thingy) to cover the hole?

Great view of the 'nail head' on the clamp too. Looks like the type of stepped pin head similar to the one on my Bolsey.

 

[Ham Solo]

I'm starting to think that it's an MPP, not a King Sol.

This is a great thread. Lots of good pics and theories.

 

[The HeatMiser]

I have the storybook and was just looking at the pic in question. I cannot tell whether the holes are square or oval, but with the 'button' still there, I lean toward the Sol.

Looking at Clanger's close up, I think I see bubbles in that clamp. The clamp is pointed slightly away from us, but there are six light bumps protruding past the edge.

Can someone with an ANH Vader saber test my observation by turning their saber to the same angle and seeing if the bubbles stick out that far?

This is a good thread. It's always good to challenge old beliefs.

HM

 

[paul n]

Holly f'in @#$%.e.
It's the same damn MPP we all know and love, ie. the same one pictured on PoSW.
Hey Chris can we get a little bigger version of this pic maybe brightened a little?

I brightened the pic to see it full sized (hopefully):

[attachmentid=453]

It s a wire going from one port to the next. And the "B" plug has a Red wire going between the "+" & "-" holes, that's what the red part is in the PoSW pic. You can actually see the Wire going from port to portin the PoSW pic it kinda looks like a dark shadow so that's why it hasn't been piced up before. When I was looking at the Carbon-Freeze close up above I kept thinking "it look's like something is there and giving the illusion of a button due to the angle". If you look at the close-up there''s no depth to the "Button", because its an optical illustion. The Red wire curves up tward the test button on the MPP and the black wire curves the other way, when you look at it from an angle it looks like a round button, and since the lighting is coming from all directions your perseption of the objects depth is skewed.

Holly crap this has just become one of the best days of my life. We just figured out some GREAT details on my all time favorite, the saber that got me into this hobby, the one I've poured over for years. I've been trying to figure out what that red psrt in the "B" port is for years.

I really had a feeling that it was the same saber when that pic including the clamp was posted. The ESB MPP's clamp is held together with a brass machine screw (which isn't seeen on any of the stunt sabers), making it VERY easy to pic out. When I saw the same brass screw I knew it had to be the same damn saber, that's why I wanted a close up of the clamp.
Oh happy day.

 

[Oohyeah KL]

I hear ya! I hear ya!!

That is VERY VERY possible!!!

(Though it still doesn't look 100% like a wire though, but more like someone cracked the bit between the 2 port holes leaving one big combined "C" shaped hole.

But the theory definitely makes sense!

OK, question (before I put my King Sol on ebay

): Do camera folks put wires between the holes the way that seems to be shown in the pics? I thought it was a metal prong-like thing (attached to a cord) which goes into 2 holes at once?

Any ideas why they would stick a couple of wires there?
Was it just to make it look a bit more different to an MPP (like sticking an extra read button on the Luke ESB)?

 

[paul n]

It's not a crack or a hole between the port's the because it's catching the light in the Cabon-freeze shot.

To answer your question KL, Why not? Why add a second red button to the Luke ESB sabers,why bother putting chrome take around the "GRAFLEX" Imprint on the band when a detail like that couldn't show up on screen? Because they can and it looks cool. The prop guys seemed to have taken a bit more care in making the props for ESB, probaly because they knew they were working on something big.

I don't think that's how the flash was originally. As I said before I personally believe the ESB saber uses the same exact flash as the ANH version (which doesn't have the wires), they just overhaued it. They put a brass screw in the clamp and some new longer grips (which were around 1/4" to 3/8" longer than the ANH ones)on it and some little details like the wires.

~Paul

 

[Shadowknight]

I'm still not so convinced.

Check this picture out.
BTW - I know that i need to turn the shroud.

Just put it on there real quick for reference.

Now, if I take the metal plate off and put the button back on (whick I'm not about to do) then the button is still there without the plate that it's says somewhere in this thread (I think) isn't on the saber and the shroud can come down more - like in the ESB pic.

My button doesn't stick up that much so it wouldn't be that noticible in the ESB lighting because it's very dark.

As for the clamp, it could be the same clamp BUT we switch out clamps all the time. That's the beauty of clamps.

So I'm convinced of the clamp, but not the MPP.

OK, that's my $0.02

EDIT - If the pic don't work, here's the link.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShadowKnight626/files/KingSol1.jpg

 

[Oohyeah KL]

"because it's catching the light in the Cabon-freeze shot"

well, tha'ts on the assumption that it's one and the same saber (which it probably is, I submit).
The reason why it looks like a hole is because if you look at the pic that clanger posted, as well as the PoSW pic, you see a white line on the edge.

Look:

See that white bit? There's no reason why a black wire would catch light like that.

UNLESS:

It were a combo-wire! Or 2 wires!
ie., one black/white wire, or 2 wires, one black one white.

I agree it's more likely to be a wire than a hole, but to explain that white bit, it would seem to point to 2 wires there.

 

[Oohyeah KL]

ShadowKnight, dunno about your King Sol plate, but my button is welded stiff to the plate, so it ain't coming off just like that.

I think the only way we could still argue it's a King Sol is if the sabers shown in the Clanger and PoSW pics are different from the saber in the Carbon-freeze pic.

However, all evidence seems to suggest that it is the same saber, or at least, an MPP.

Here's the list of reasons:

- button/screw right under the shroud. This is like the MPP. King Sol button would be slightly further away from the shroud due to the button plate edge.

- on top of the "button" there is a dark bit which looks like part of a port hole.

- reflections of the port hole edges looks more rounded than square

- there doesn't seem to be a 'horizontal' (or 'vertical' depending which way you look) vent port, whereas most (though not all) King Sols have one, like yours, and like mine.

- small hole about an inch or so under the "button", which corresponds to the MPP name plate rivet hole. King Sols have no hole there.

- King Sol's don't have such shrouds or clamps, so it would make more sense that it was an MPP, rather than them having transplanted the shroud and clamp from an MPP onto an King Sol.

- Clamp seems to be the same as the MPP Vader clamps we can see from the other ESB pics. (though granted, they could have switched clamps).

Speaking of the clamp, it would seem that they got rid of the nail from the clamp of the ANH version (remember we now seem to have concluded they used a nail in the ANH clamp), and upgraded to the brass screw thing.
Then they lengthened the grips, and added those wires.

Incidentally, Paul, what do we know about that brass screw thing holding the clamp together?

ShadowKnight, you still looking for a King Sol? I've got a couple...

 

[Shadowknight]

Wait a second. Are we running of the "convention" shot that is posted here. Are we 100% sure that that is "the" saber for the Carbon Freeze scene?

I was under the impression that these sabers came up missing a lot. Hence the graflex in ROTJ.

 

[PropReplicator]

I forsee an abundance of King Sol's on E-bay by the morning. Mine included.

 

[yoda201]

Yep Wayne i think you are right! This sucks! Chris