Captain America: Civil War (Post-release)

[Snikt]

My guess is we probably won't see Cap or Bucky again until Infinity War. Cap will return alongside a newly awakened and cured Bucky, who will be wielding a new Vibranium arm. Something could happen to Rogers in the battle with Thanos and Bucky could take over the persona then. I'm not saying that Rogers will be killed although that is a possibility. But maybe he chooses to retire.

Personally I would rather see Bucky take on the mantle versus recasting the role. At least that has a precedent in the comics. That goes for all the characters. If these movies are containing into future if actors don't won't to participate I would rather see new characters introduced than recasting.

That reminds me! What was the deal with Black Panther's interactions with Bucky's arm? It couldnt have just been a vibranium thing, because Bucky had contact with Caps shield and nothing happened. Was there a significance?

 

[dascoyne]

Yeah, the writing of this movie was great. I got chills when he said that too. One of my favorite scenes is when Bucky and Cap are remembering something from their past, and it makes you realize why Cap wants to protect him. The only person left from his past life is this victim, and you feel for him. Can you imagine waking up and everyone and everything you ever knew was gone? Then find out that the two people you cared most about (Peggy and Bucky) are still alive? Of course Peggy dies cause she is old, and your friend was hunting down and killing people while you were on ice. Man.

What makes me tear up about Winter Soldier is seeing Cap's growing awareness of his isolation out of his time where Peggy has lived an entire lifetime without him and his values are entirely out of place. He's in a future world where his beliefs makes him a criminal and ultimately a fugitive. At the climax, after he did his duty in taking down the carrier, confronting Bucky, it breaks my heart that he chooses to surrender his life clinging tragically to his devotion to his childhood friend to the very end.

 

[tcsmit29]

I liked Natasha a lot more in the Russo Brothers films than I do in the whedon ones. I just like the way they write her. I didn't care for the lullaby and romance with Banner in the Whedon movies. I was glad to see her allow Cap to escape. I would think with her past, that she would have been a solid team Cap member. While it seems she backed Stark for s while, she was conflicted about it or at least wasn't fully committed. Anyways, great film! I have only viewed it once so far. I will probably see it at least two more times. There is a lot of material there to digest. I feel that a few repeated viewings is justified in my case. [emoji3]

 

[dascoyne]

It's interesting how they lay out Tony's arc - how he's resigned to having his personal life in shambles because of the choices he's made. It's implicit that his unresolved father issues have contributed to that. Which makes the revelation of his parents' murders so powerful - I can imagine this man who is usually the coolest head in the room suddenly understanding that his life might have been different - and probably less conflicted had his parents lived. I can understand his rage - which we've never seen before.

 

[Snikt]

What makes me tear up about Winter Soldier is seeing Cap's growing awareness of his isolation out of his time where Peggy has lived an entire lifetime without him and his values are entirely out of place. He's in a future world where his beliefs makes him a criminal and ultimately a fugitive. At the climax, after he did his duty in taking down the carrier, confronting Bucky, it breaks my heart that he chooses to surrender his life clinging tragically to his devotion to his childhood friend to the very end.

Dude, is someone cutting onions in here?! *sniffle*

 

[dascoyne]

Did anyone else notice the change up in line delivery from the trailer to the film in a couple of scenes?

"Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth." The movie was more quippy and less threatening than in the trailer.

The "He's my friend/So was I" line was also different. Tony was more ominous in the film - not as weepy as the trailer.

 

[KrangPrime]

I'm annoyed I have to wait till next thursday. I like to see it in a theater that's a tad less crowded ;o)

 

[dascoyne]

Yeah, I had lots of chatty teens in my movie, too.

 

[glunark]

The world was wrong about you, and so was I.

Unless I missed it twice, that line didnt end up in the film.

 

[Snikt]

The world was wrong about you, and so was I.

Unless I missed it twice, that line didnt end up in the film.

Youre right, it didnt.

 

[dascoyne]

The world was wrong about you, and so was I.

Unless I missed it twice, that line didnt end up in the film.

I think the line was: "I was wrong about you. The world was wrong about you."

 

[Father]

It's not that I wanted Cap to die but some of the hype (e.g. "this is going to be a more heart-wrenching movie") prepared my expectations. I expected a more earth-shattering conclusion.

Me too. But, considering deaths of the big name characters in comics never stick and they are usually written back to life, I'm not disappointed. If the comics can't even make it stick there's not point in doing it in the MCU, since they have a much tighter window of opportunity to work in, they can't just make another movie to bring them back to life. It comes off as cheap. Nobody ever seems to stay dead in the comic universe.

I'm certainly not ready for Bucky as Cap. He was ready to go off the hinges at a word. I don't want the mass murderer teaming up with Tony. That shouldn't work and wouldn't, IMO...
Also, who should've killed Cap? Tony would've lost all credibility. I enjoy that they left it at separate but not entirely apart for the team. They just found who they needed to be with. Although it looks like Cap came out on top. Who does Tony have? Rhodes and Vision?

What was Vision doing during the airport fight?

Agreed, the timing and circumstances are not right for Bucky to be Cap.
For a brief moment, I thought Tony actually killed him in the final battle. That would have been pretty mind-blowing.
Rhodes is pretty much out of commission for a while. I'm guessing Vision is rethinking his position considering he is responsible for Rhodes' condition.

The reason they were still locked up after bucky was deemed innocent is that they were in for vigilanteism, not helping a terrorist.
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Not sure their "crime" could be defined as vigilantism, but ok.
I didn't see any superpowered people in The Raft. Why put them in that super high-tech prison for this ?crime"? I'm having a hard time finding anything that even defines the penalty for vigilantism. I'm guessing it's not an offense in and of itself as much as the actions involved in the act of being a vigilante (assault, property damage, etc.). Just furthers my opinion that Ross is operating on shaky ground.

One of many haunting lines:

Tony: "Do you even remember my parents?"
Bucky: "I remember them all."

I missed that, but it's a pretty deep statement. Even though he wasn't in control of his actions, he still has the memories, as if he was a spectator in his own body.

I think that the death of any of the main Avengers team in Civil War would have been premature given whats coming ahead with the two "Infinity Wars"movies .

If Infinity Wars is kind of the end game of the planned 3-phase MCU, I'm guessing there are going to be heavy losses between the first and second parts of that.

...and he cut the airport in half trying to stop Cap and Bucky. Even though he was on the "lets not wreck stuff" side of the team.

Exactly!!

Did anyone else notice the change up in line delivery from the trailer to the film in a couple of scenes?
"Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth." The movie was more quippy and less threatening than in the trailer.
The "He's my friend/So was I" line was also different. Tony was more ominous in the film - not as weepy as the trailer.

The world was wrong about you, and so was I.
Unless I missed it twice, that line didnt end up in the film.

The camera angles of those scenes also seemed different. There were a few other lines that seemed like they were delivered differently from the trailers.
I didn't catch the line "You just started a war" and "I was wrong about you. The whole world was wrong about you". I thought those were pretty major lines. Unless I just missed them.


On another note... I also really liked the different ways Falcon used his wings. Very cool.

 

[tcsmit29]

I missed the "you just started a war" also. I can't really explain this but, I enjoyed the movie as much as I thought I would but in a different way. It was different from my expectations based on the trailer. But in a good way. I'm really stoked to see it again.

 

[cayman shen]

This was an okay Marvel movie. A bit of a chore at times frankly. Not sure what the rave reviews are about. It was solidly okay. Best Spidey ever, loved Ant Man and Black Panthet, but it all kind of plodded along from A to B to C.

 

[cayman shen]

Also aren't the Avengers under Shield? When did they become private vigilantes in the eyes of the govt?

 

[crabra comander]

Shield...Hydra. Disbanded

 

[tcsmit29]

Also aren't the Avengers under Shield? When did they become private vigilantes in the eyes of the govt?

Well, SHIELD was basically dismantled at the end of Winter Soldier when it was infiltrated by Hydra. In Age of Ultron, Nick Fury was basically acting as a rogue agent. He mentioned finding the helicarrier mothballed somewhere.

 

[cayman shen]

Ok but we saw former Shield agents in Civil War still working for the govt. It's not like they all went rogue. I dunno...the whole conflict feels seriously forced. Captain America is acting more like Captaon North Korea...I'll do as I please because I know best and I'm stronger than you. Pretty reprehensible actually.

 

[dascoyne]

Captain America is acting more like Captaon North Korea...I'll do as I please because I know best and I'm stronger than you. Pretty reprehensible actually.

Well Cap's position is analogous to US foreign policy as a world superpower - that he assumed sole moral responsibility and conducts violent action with little regard for political sovereignty. He doesn't want to answer to the UN or other bureaucratic institution of questionable and maleable interests. He's distrustful of institution and, yes, given his experience in The Winter Soldier it's understandable where he's coming from and only trustful of his own moral compass - as arrogant as it sounds. Your sentiment about his arrogance is expressed by Rhodey during the initial discussion. The film doesn't argue that he's in the right. Your disdain for his position is valid and an intentional part of the writing.

 

[dascoyne]

Ok but we saw former Shield agents in Civil War still working for the govt. It's not like they all went rogue. I dunno...the whole conflict feels seriously forced.

Are you talking about Sharon Carter? She was recruited by the CIA at the end of Winter Soldier.

SHIELD was disbanded and it's current iteration in the series is more covert. The Avengers, it's implied, is no longer affiliated with them.