Can I recast an AA Helmet ?

[Too Much Garlic]

I just have this to say: if stealing wasn't illegal, would you then steal? Can you justify stealing by saying: "But others do it too?" Where's your own sense of moral on this issue, or is that ethics?

I really find this debate really sad. No matter whether it is written in the rules or whether you are a member here or not: recasting should not happen.

And I still think there's a difference between copying movie props and recasting other people's work - company or private individual, who are offering these items. I can understand why many are reluctant to share anything, if this is how it is dealt with by some people in the community. I wouldn't wanna share anything if I was just pissed on by other people who could care less about me and what I'm sharing only to copy it to get a few bucks for themselves.

But I guess this debate revolves around calling all props that are not "originals" for recasts and that all should be banned. But if that happened there wouldn't be much of a prop community, since real props are usually expencive and severely hard to come by and are reserved for a priviliged few.

 

[Keith]

I really don't understand this thread. Why would it be OK to recast one of AA's helmets??
It makes no difference how good or bad the AA helmets are, how truthful he has been about the molds or if he is a member here or not, those helmets are his own creation and until he gives his permission for them to be recast, they should remain his and only his creation.

Its simple, people should not recast anything without permssion from the person who we here on the rpf call the legitimate maker.

For the people who would say the only legitimate maker is LFL or whoever made the original prop in the first place, i would have to ask why are you a member here if thats how you see it? People know the "rules" here.

BTW, I think all this arguing and bikering is sad and really immature.

Keith.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

No I'm not saying it's OK to recast just anything :rolleyes . But as we know there are many gray areas. Look at all the CPO heads,suits etc, Vader helmets,armor, EVERY TK etc. How about the illusive Han in Carbonite, they get recast and no one blinks an eye. Some of the studio scale models, Icons recast/modified, no one blinks an eye. In one way or another ALL recast.

Me personally, I would never do it or allow any of the items in my collection to be cast or copied. But I'm not going to crap on another guy for doing the same thing many others have done regardless of how they justify it for copying props they have no rights to.

Original art,sculpts etc,photography,licenced products are all off limits. But if you offer a prop which you have no rights to, at some point someone is going to recast it, and legally there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Originally posted by voice in the crowd+Mar 30 2006, 06:22 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(voice in the crowd @ Mar 30 2006, 06:22 AM)</div>

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@Mar 30 2006, 10:04 AM
Everyone knows I have no love for AA. Given that, I can still say I don't think it would be any more right to recast his stuff as it would to recast anyone else's. Being a member or a non member SHOULD be irrevelent. Did he recast other member's works here? Yes. But two wrongs don't make a right. Going down this path would only lead to prop recasting anarchy.

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Wise words Gino.

Peoples opinions of AA/SDS are clouding this issue.

I don't think Dr. S posted this thread as a bash AA/SDS thread and his question was obviously hypothetical and there is not any intention to recast anyones work(correct me if I am wrong Dr. S) I think it was posted to show how the rules aren't actually set in stone rules. The rules are left up to enterpretation which leaves them open to abuse.

Gino is right two wrongs don't make a right and for anyone in this thread who does feel it is ok to recast SDS then possibly their opinion is made up by the propmaker in question.

Given Gino's very public condemnations of AA/SDS in the past it is clear that even with his dislike of SDS his judgement on right and wrong hasn't been blurred by this :thumbsup .

If the people saying its ok to recast AA were asked the same question about any other prop maker would they give the same answer?

Cheers Chris

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[/b]

Both of these posts pretty much sum up how I feel on the whole thing. There are things that I, as an artist, cannot do. I cannot sculpt. I cannot paint well. I cannot vacuum form. I cannot make molds. I could run down a litany of things that I cannot do, but it is dancing around my point. The ARTISANS involved in crafting the goodies that I love spent time and effort crafting these things. Should I reward them for their effort by copying those things and selling them myself? Should I reward their efforts by taking money that SHOULD have gone to them and keeping it for myself? Short answer is no.

Yes, there is a huge grey area when it comes to pieces that are no longer produced, or never have been, like the 3PO head, the Han in carbonite, et al. There are many many talented people here who have made one offs or duplicate molds from these items...is it recasting? You betcha.

As has been said numerous times, you cannot make screen accurate items, such as the 3PO heads and the Han in carbonite, without access to the screen used items. Few or none of us have that kind of access to those items so when something comes down the pipes and then vanishes - be it from a limited run item or what have you - people march right into the grey area...quite happily.

Yes, there is enough photographic evidence to show that AA did indeed rip off other's work, but to do the same to him...well, there are enough trooper items around without having to do so. I wouldn't touch an AA recast or original for any amount of money. I have some scruples...not many, but some.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

I agree with your post Qui-Gonzales (and those you mentioned before) although would add one thing

Originally posted by Qui-Gonzalez@Mar 30 2006, 01:13 PM
Yes, there is enough photographic evidence to show that AA did indeed rip off other's work

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.....who ripped off his in the first place.

Lets not forget that rather pertinent point please

Cheers

Jez

 

[exoray]

Originally posted by BingoBongo275@Mar 30 2006, 08:51 AM

.....who ripped off his in the first place.

Lets not forget that rather pertinent point please

Cheers

Jez

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They both ripped of LFL...

So, back to the two wrongs don't make a right? Or do different rules apply when you are AA?

Some of the parts AA recast were original AA sculpts, second most of AA's armor is cast of ROTJ parts not his own so where do you draw the line?

Are you suggesting that people who had their hands in the original parts (in any sense) are entitled to recast any derivatives and original copies that come along?

 

[Gytheran]

Originally posted by BingoBongo275+Mar 30 2006, 02:53 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BingoBongo275 @ Mar 30 2006, 02:53 AM)</div>

Originally posted by Gytheran@Mar 30 2006, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by DarthKahnt@Mar 29 2006, 04:27 PM
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@Mar 29 2006, 06:12 PM
One way or another this hobby is grounded in recasting and unlicencecd props. AA isn't a memeber here and doesn't have the licence. Grey area ...cast away...

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Im with you.

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Agreed. If AA is protected by non-member status in regards to recasting members' work, it also denies him the luxury of protecting his own 'non-member' work from being recast by our members.

Cast away...

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So presumably its also “okay” to recast all of TE’s work since he’s a banned and therefore “non” member?

It sounds like you're keen to encourage a recasting free for all?

:thumbsdown :thumbsdown :thumbsdown

Cheers

Jez

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[/b]

By the rules of the RPF, that is correct.

Will I ever do it? No. Do I support it? No. But if the RPF is going to officially allow AA to recast based on his 'non-member' status, it also allows those who want to recast his work to do so. That is, if the rules are applied objectively. So... fat chance at getting away with it.

You simply cannot denounce one person's recasting and not the other's because they're your buddy. Well... you can, but it make you a hypocritical idiot. :lol

So it is either OK for both AA to recast our members work and our members to recast his work because AA is not technically a member...

OR

It is NOT OK for either to do so.


Which is it going to be?

 

[Gytheran]

Originally posted by BingoBongo275+Mar 30 2006, 07:51 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BingoBongo275 @ Mar 30 2006, 07:51 AM)</div>

I agree with your post Qui-Gonzales (and those you mentioned before) although would add one thing

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@Mar 30 2006, 01:13 PM
Yes, there is enough photographic evidence to show that AA did indeed rip off other's work

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.....who ripped off his in the first place.

Lets not forget that rather pertinent point please

Cheers

Jez

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[/b]

And YOU helped rip off customers who were told they were buying a helmet from unaltered, original molds.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Gytheran@Mar 30 2006, 04:11 PM
So it is either OK for both AA to recast our members work and our members to recast his work because AA is not technically a member...
OR
It is NOT OK for either to do so.
Which is it going to be?

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This one: "It is NOT OK for either to do so."

Recasting is bad and should be avoided. Just my opinion.

Making copies of screen used is indeed recasting, but since they are not on the market I don't see any problem with it. And if people are concerned that they rip-off GL and LFL, then they should seriously get off their a**es and offer them for sale, instead of bitching about it. Since they do not do that... then what are people to do? Well... we could bombard them with letters demanding them to make accurate props for sale - I guess that would be the most correct approach to making copies of the items... but... can that be organized and would it really do any good? There must be reasons since they haven't offered these items for sale already... 'cause they are missing out on serious dough.

Making copies of licenced and unlicenced items for sale or discontinued is imo very simple: BAD BAD BAD. :unsure

What can we learn from all this? It's GL's & LFL's fault for not providing the fans with what they really want. Shame on them. :rolleyes

 

[allosaur176]

Ok, so being there will never be a right or wrong answer here, I think this thread can really go no further....

This thread was created to stir up ****, as every thread topic stating "Can I recast" or "is it alright to recast"

If you recast from a known recaster, your not stealing from him, but from the original source, which makes you no better than the recaster himself

 

[SithLord]

Originally posted by Gytheran+Mar 30 2006, 10:12 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gytheran @ Mar 30 2006, 10:12 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-BingoBongo275

@Mar 30 2006, 07:51 AM


.....who ripped off his in the first place.

Lets not forget that rather pertinent point please

Cheers

Jez

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And YOU helped rip off customers who were told they were buying a helmet from unaltered, original molds.

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[/b]

With all due respect, keep in mind that Jez was simply relating what he had been told or had read and hasn't seen the original molds anymore than any of us had. To say that he intentionally helped to rip off people on this forum is a low blow in my estimation......

T

 

[Gytheran]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth...

Despite if it were intentional or not, it happened.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Yes, please don't turn this into a rock slinging competition. We all have differing opinions about props - pro and con - and we should all respect each other's opinions, even though we may or may not agree with them.

 

[Gytheran]

The last argument ANYONE should be using to defend AA is "who ripped off who first". :rolleyes

 

[vaderfanforever]

Um, silly question....isn't recasting anything wrong? You are copying someone's elses work without their permission, which in a sense is also stealing their personal property.

*ducking for cover from flaming*


Elijah - VaderFanforever

 

[Gytheran]

Originally posted by vaderfanforever@Mar 30 2006, 09:25 AM
Um, silly question....isn't recasting anything wrong? 

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Not if you're AA.

 

[swampbug]

So If I sculpt my own version on a stormtrooper helmet by hand, and it looks exactly like someones helmet... is that close enough to be a recast.. or am I just fricken sweet?

 

[micdavis]

I've said this many times and no ever wants to listen.

THERE IS NO GREY AREA. So quit saying there is.

Recasting is recasting. I don't give a damn whether the RPF 'staff' approves what.

ANYBODY that has remolded ANYTHING, screen used, borrowed, stolen, or rented.

Permission or NOT. Licensed of course is a different matter.

UNLESS you have permission of the holder of the IP. You are a recaster.

Stop pretending it's okay.

If you have unlicensed pieces in your collection, you are a party to thievery, whether it's "okayed" by the RPF or not.

FACE IT.

One of two things must occur.

STOP DOING IT. Ban anything not licensed.

OR

STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT. We can not be the prop police AND participate in this hobby. It only raises red flags with the studios and is EXTREMELY hypocritical.

There has been an underground of props and models long before the internet.

 

[Darth Mawr]

Originally posted by DrStranglove@Mar 27 2006, 09:46 PM
Can I recast a AA Helmet?

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Yep.

 

[SithLord]

Originally posted by Gytheran@Mar 30 2006, 10:51 AM
Thanks for putting words in my mouth...

Despite if it were intentional or not, it happened.

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Yes it did according to many here, but those are still opinions and you're essentially saying a member here lied to everyone else about a source of helmets/armor when he was in fact doing a service to the forum at the time. I'm not here to support AA or Jez, but I'm calling it like I see it. You can argue about the ligitimacy of recasting or about AA's integrity, but saying that so-and-so a member here has lied to the forum is going overboard. I would not personally insinuate anything about anyone here if I didn't know them or the facts of their situation. And this forum certainly doesn't know all the facts....not by a long shot. So accusing members here of intentionally misleading the forum makes it all the more rediculous.