Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]""

Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I was not talking about film making.

The end battle wasn't art. Not by a long shot. It was a long-winded piece of toilet drama. Sure. Art is subjective... which means her opinion really doesn't amount to anything but HER opinion. I certainly don't agree with her opinion and don't expect anyone to agree with mine. So I hold to my position that she's talking a load of BS.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I was not talking about film making.

The end battle wasn't art. Not by a long shot. It was a long-winded piece of toilet drama. Sure. Art is subjective... which means her opinion really doesn't amount to anything but HER opinion. I certainly don't agree with her opinion and don't expect anyone to agree with mine. So I hold to my position that she's talking a load of BS.
I'm more apt to acknowledge someone with Paglia's background and her RATIONAL discussion of the matter. Rather than overly emotional knee jerk reaction.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I'm more apt to acknowledge someone with Paglia's background and her RATIONAL discussion of the matter. Rather than overly emotional knee jerk reaction.

Agreed. :thumbsup
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

Roger Ebert linked this through his blog, it's a part of a longer interview with author and cultural critic Camile Paglia, talking about the art establishment and contemporary art. In her new book, she includes a chapter on Revenge of the Sith.

PJTV: Instavision: Camille Paglia on the Sneering Art Establishment and the Genius of George Lucas - YouTube

"My goodness, this is so powerful. This is like grand opera; it's like landscape painting from romanticism; it's like apocalyptic destruction of industrial culture and politics; everything going, with this unbelievable dance theater of the longest duel ever filmed in movies. And it's passionate engagement, you know, on a lava river between these two men, I became overwhelmed. So I'm saying - and I will defend this to the death - this long finale of Revenge of the Sith, is the most powerful, and the most significant work of art in any genre - including literature - in the last thirty years."

That's a pretty strong statement!


:confused :confused :confused


It's sad when a mind goes to waste due to weird pharmaceuticals.


That's the only explanation, right?


Right?
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I've always found it amusing when people think they are stating a fact when all they really are stating is an opinion. This wonderfully applies to both sides of this conversation.
 
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Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

She appears to be projecting layers of meaning and depth into the movie that are not apparent to most people simply because they don't actually exist anywhere but in her mind.

It's nice that she was able to enjoy it on a clearly higher level than most of us mere humans who are not able to understand art with her superior knowledge and training.

I myself thought it was just an overblown, unrealistic CGI sequence that was created simply to distract audiences away from the deficiencies of the five plus hours of cinema gold that preceded it.

I wonder if she has seen Dante's Peak? That would really blow her mind.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

She appears to be projecting layers of meaning and depth into the movie that are not apparent to most people simply because they don't actually exist anywhere but in her mind.

It's nice that she was able to enjoy it on a clearly higher level than most of us mere humans who are not able to understand art with her superior knowledge and training.

I myself thought it was just an overblown, unrealistic CGI sequence that was created simply to distract audiences away from the deficiencies of the five plus hours of cinema gold that preceded it.

I wonder if she has seen Dante's Peak? That would really blow her mind.

Thank you for proving the point...
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

You proved your own point in your previous post. I never said anything about my opinion being factual.

Since Miss Paglia is only stating her opinion as well I guess this whole thread is irrelevant.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

Even just calling ROTS a motion picture would be stretching it in my opinion!
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

Actually, some of the things Camile Paglia (if I'm thinking its the same woman) does make sense. I listened to her audio commentary track for Basic Instinct, and I was surprised by the amount of knowledge in her interpretation of the film and certain scenes (seriously, I never took Catherine's lighting her lighter towards the end of the interrogation scene as a signal of her victory against the men). But then again, there are those who over interpret things (as sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar).
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I don't think she's projecting anything for which a rational argument could not be made. The visuals are very reminiscent of romanticism. There is an under current of political subterfuge throughout the prequels. Likewise I think it's rather obvious that the Trade Union is a representation of industrialism, which is destroyed by Palpatine's quest for power.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I've always found it amusing when people think they are stating a fact when all they really are stating is an opinion. This wonderfully applies to both sides of this conversation.
Amen. It's a tough call... and I hate it when folks express something as a given truth when it is merely an opinion or a view on something. It really depends on how it's worded...
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

I don't think she's projecting anything for which a rational argument could not be made. The visuals are very reminiscent of romanticism. There is an under current of political subterfuge throughout the prequels. Likewise I think it's rather obvious that the Trade Union is a representation of industrialism, which is destroyed by Palpatine's quest for power.

Yes, but in one sentence she rightly slams contemporary art for looking like it could've been done at any point in the last 200 years, then in the next starts praising ROTS for the Romanticism she's found in the Sith sequence! Total contradiction.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

Yes, but in one sentence she rightly slams contemporary art for looking like it could've been done at any point in the last 200 years, then in the next starts praising ROTS for the Romanticism she's found in the Sith sequence! Total contradiction.

It would be a total contradiction if the Romanticism was the only thing she said about ROTS. But the way I interpreted her comments was that it was the cumulative effect of imagery, subtext, choreography, etc, that drew her to ROTS.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

It would be a total contradiction if the Romanticism was the only thing she said about ROTS. But the way I interpreted her comments was that it was the cumulative effect of imagery, subtext, choreography, etc, that drew her to ROTS.

Then she's totally whacked, as there is nothing in ROTS that is in any way culturally original. Let's recap: the specific reason she gives for dismissing all contemporary art from the last 30 years is because she finds it unoriginal. Yet in her ludicrous apotheosis of ROTS she makes no case for its originality, but instead lists a load of qualities that you could easily find in art from the last 200 years - which is her beef with contemporary art! Total contradiction. She's a loon.
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

Good ******, people, the sequence in the video includes the line "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" while she prattles on about the passion and the romanticism in the scene and how you can't find it anywhere in culture during the last 30 years.

What a load of crap.

I'm sorry, but she's just dead wrong. Not only is she wrong, she's also a ****ing idiot. Either that or, as I said, she's trolling or just desperate for attention.


Ok, you want to argue that this sequence in the film involves passion? Sure, I'll give you that. It involves some pretty doofy dialogue, too, but I'll still give it to you.

But I take issue with two of her points.

First, that this sequence is so magnificent. It's visually impressive, and there's clearly an attempt to infuse it with passion and import. But it's unearned because of everything that's led up to that point. The issue is that this scene and the ending of that film is not an unconnected, stand-alone piece. It's part of a larger work, and in that respect, visually gripping though it may be, it lacks the context to give it meaning. If it were a short film? Ok, maybe then, yeah. But it's not. It's the culmination of a three-film saga, that leads into a second three-film saga...and it just doesn't earn what it's trying to do. Not only that, but it doesn't jive thematically, emotionally, or visually with the story it's supposed to give way to.

Second, the notion that nothing in the last 30 years has existed in any art form, including literature, that matches the passion and emotion and ambition of this piece?

What ***king planet does she live on? Does she EVER turn on the TV or go to the movies or pick up a book, or is she too busy writing her own crap and appearing on TV programs to promote her own book?


I'm sorry, but I'm with Colin on this one. This woman is why contemporary art and art criticism gets a bad name in the public: because ivory tower academics like her make grand sweeping statements backed by the authority of their degrees, published works, and whatever other positions and accolades she holds, and end up making statements that are just idiotic.



Then again, maybe I just am not well versed enough to see what's really going on here. Perhaps this is a clever attempt to continue the work of deconstructionists who, having laid bare the myth that language has intrinsic meaning, having disrobed the Platonists who would argue for the "essential" nature of things, are now engaged in post-modern construction. Or, in lay terms, making s*** up. And that's really all she's doing. She's saying "I'll see your bet, monsieur Derrida, and raise you a load of crap."

Because, apparently, you can ignore all manner of artistic efforts across ALL media in the last 30 years, and say, conclusively and without reservation, that this, this here, this culmination to a film franchise featuring Jamaican duck-lizards, clunky dialogue, wooden acting, and half-assed attempts at political intrigue, is the most significant piece of art in 30 years. Apparently, words really DO have no meaning save what we ascribe them, and so "art" can mean "whatever the **** Camille Paglia has dreamed up in her fevered brain while she was flipping around on SPIKE one weekend."


Or, like I said,

Qr68u.jpg
 
Re: Camile Paglia on ROTS: "most significant work of art in any genre...[in 30 years]

Then she's totally whacked, as there is nothing in ROTS that is in any way culturally original. Let's recap: the specific reason she gives for dismissing all contemporary art from the last 30 years is because she finds it unoriginal. Yet in her ludicrous apotheosis of ROTS she makes no case for its originality, but instead lists a load of qualities that you could easily find in art from the last 200 years - which is her beef with contemporary art! Total contradiction. She's a loon.

I think you're projecting your own criticisms onto Paglia, because I don't interpret her words as making the same point. She doesn't dismiss all contemporary art to begin with. She spends the first part of the interview talking about the 'orthodoxy' of the 'art establishment' snd how avante garde has been watered down. Her criticism of contemporary art isn't simply that she finds it unoriginal.

More to the point though, I presume that the book makes the argument, which is the reason for her appearance in the first place. I'm not saying you have to agree with her, or even that I agree with her, but you've set her argument up for failure in your analysis by over distilling her argument.
 
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