Building The ANH 5'Millennium Falcon

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by eagle1, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Been a while, but thought I'd post pics of some amazing casting that my good friend Rodmart has done recently. This was on his part a feat of genius & frustration, but the results speak for themselves & I am just in awe.
    Stu
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  2. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Beauty!
     
  3. DARKSIDE72

    DARKSIDE72 Sr Member

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    They look amazing! :) Good job!

     
  4. dsp5500

    dsp5500 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, they certainly do:thumbsup
     
  5. Junk Pilot

    Junk Pilot Sr Member

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    Wow. Totally blown away.
     
  6. vfxsup64

    vfxsup64 Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Masterful work, all the way around..
     
  7. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Looking good Stu, looking forward to more asap
     
  8. joberg

    joberg Master Member

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    Man this is great!!
     
  9. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    IS there a list of the donor kits used on the 5-footer? Eagle's statement above seem stingy given that anyone actually attempting to compile (aka 'map') kit parts would necessarily create such a list. Why not share it instead of making everyone else "reinvent the wheel"? My motivation is due to the current project to ID, map, and produce artwork documenting all the little markings and decals that were applied to the 5-footer - information, btw, that is already being shared, freely through this forum & via file download (hosted by my local modeling club's website...) So, while attempting to properly ID the source of each decal, the survey team (including myself) have found many sources for the decals used; however, many still elude us, and I suspect they came from as of yet to be ID'ed parts donor kit sheets. Hence my search through the forum to find what must surely exist, a comprehensive listing of the donor kits (given all the time and effort already expended on ID'ing the parts...) I just hope the above *isn't* the prevailing attitude regarding sharing findings.

    I would certainly appreciate if anyone could point me to or share a list of the donor kits so I can focus my "decal searches" on those kits instead of fumbling around further. Our 'team' has been quite fortunate so far, but as noted the puzzle isn't solved as of yet...

    Kind Regards, Robert
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  10. swgeek

    swgeek Sr Member

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  11. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    It is ALL collaborative effort, these parts (or decal...) surveys, so not to share freely when so much is received freely is just the wrong viewpoint - regardless of the personal effort or expense. I know "investment" creates naturally a sense of 'ownership' or 'entitlement' when compared to folks just appearing & seeming to 'get a free ride'. However, this isn't a club that requires certain 'tickets get punched' in order to participate. The newcomers will, especially if welcomed & mentored, simply become contributors as well, further enhancing the entire community's effort & the results. We shouldn't assume someone is merely a 'taker' just because they are asking for help...

    The decal survey (completely analogous if *far* less complex) has the findings published for all to see so they if possible can contribute to the effort just by looking at the 'holes' that exist. If the parts 'map' were translated into a tracking list that shows *every* part that is ID'ed or not ID'ed, then everyone's effort can focus on those still unresolved items as well as documenting what is already known. I am assuming that the parts map is still not quite finished even now. Perhaps I am assuming too much...

    Ah well, folks will do what they do. I'm just happy Shane, Eric, Patrick, Craig & all others assisting are working on this 'decals' thing; it is much more successful than if it were just one of us.

    Thanks for the pointer, Swgeek; I was digging through Gort's maps, which are sort of a list, just a bit scattered. TIP: eBay has proven a wonderful resource for finding these kit decal sheets since most of the old kits pop up there, and the seller's usually include a decent image of the decals. Usually!

    Regards, Robert
     
  12. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Robert,
    I'm going to word this very carefully so I upset no one, I don't wish to & genuinely want to help Falcon builders.
    I will say that I'm open to helping folks with their builds.
    Yes, of course there is a list of donors, we builders each have a list with kits we have learnt the ID's of. These lists may differ from builder to builder, but ultimately they will
    be the same.
    Now, I will help only with ID's I myself have found or come across, other than being entrusted with others donor ID's. Meaning, I'm not going to give out ID's I myself did not
    find & are publicly not known, as yet. I know this is tough & really it goes against my attitude to sharing, but I'm not going to break gentlemens agreements.
    I'm not going to get into all the politics of it all, the Studio Scale world is full of it & I try to keep out of it for the best part, but you only have to ask me for help & I'll see what I can do.

    I'm more than happy to help actual builders with info I can give, a lot know that here. Proof of a build goes a long way in garnering help.
    I do admire what you are doing with the decal ID's Robert, so please ask if I can be of assistance to you.

    Stu
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
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  13. faustus100

    faustus100 Well-Known Member

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    Hear,hear!
     
  14. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Stu, thank you for your considered and politic response. While I understand that some hold proprietary feelings for their "work", I still fail to understand *those feelings* or the rationale for them, unless there is a commercial motivation (as in someone writing a book...) It goes back to the collaborative intent of the forum process. However, as noted, folks will do as they will.

    In any case, I am currently throwing together a spreadsheet listing of donor kits (which of course will prove naught against individual parts ID's - which seems to be the point of contention) using the maps organized & published by Gort in his thread. I intend to include an additional component example to show how it could be used as a parts tracker as well - in case someone wishes to use it in such a manner. I will publish the documentation tool via the same means as the decal Tracker for anyone to use, and establish a thread to support updates to the published tool if anyone wishes to contribute additions, since it may necessarily be incomplete per your 'gentleman's agreement' assertion.

    Again, thank you for the explanation and also for your efforts to share what information you may to date.

    Regards, Robert

    PS: For Faustus100, it is somewhat unclear if you are cheering for Stu's comments or for mine. R/
     
  15. SteveStarkiller

    SteveStarkiller Sr Member

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    speaking for myself, I've had a tendency over the years to be secretive because I'm worried somebody is going to take my hard won research and do a better job than I would do, and do it before me. It's also hard to resist the desire to get credit for the sometimes mind-bending task of spotting parts and details. But in the end, we all just want to see a beautiful well researched replica. So I've definitely tried to be less of a grinch recently... it's not easy.

    (not that I'm a big contributor to IDing parts, but I've had my moments...)
     
  16. faustus100

    faustus100 Well-Known Member

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    It was primarily for Stu's comment Robert.
    Although I readily understand your position, there are several problems associated with freely giving out hard to find ids on a large build that incorporates expensive and hard to find kits. The first of which being that it drives kit prices way up! All of a sudden a somewhat obscure and sometimes inexpensive kit becomes invaluable to SS builders. So then you have a lot more competitive bidding for said kit! And to be honest, most of the time you will be bidding against someone who is just dreaming and will never actually build anything.
    The second obstacle is that many people who give out those really hard to find ids do so under the conditions that it not be shared. If you plan to receive more information from these individuals in the future you have to honor that pledge. I've had great benefactors. Some of whom have only helped me after they'd seen that I was serious and spent thousands on kits and (here's the key) actually used them towards my build! So I can understand Stu's statement completely. I myself will sometimes give out ids. But only those that I may have stumbled across myself or have been given permission to share. And even then,only to proven builders and certainly not dreamers and hoarders. Because to be honest, the average person doesn't even have the room for a model of this size. Not to mention being insane enough lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  17. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Faustus100, thank you for your explanation - so here is the 'commercial' (well, really financial ) subtext / motivation to this issue I referenced. I can see, with rarity, letting 'the cat out of the bag' so to speak might create further demand than what existed before and consequently penalize those who worked to 'discover' the source parts. In short, it is analogous to moving a kit in a store to a disquised location in an effort to preserve it for later purchase (and of course depriving another of the opportunity.)

    In my opinion, this mindset could be countered by the sharing of recast parts, or scratched masters being offered for distro as cast replacements for the original, now defunct styrene bits. Given it all looks the same under a coat of paint plus the ridiculous expense of obtaining these old, OOP kits (the majority of parts often being discarded), the whole resin replacement path seems the way to go - especially if a savings of thousands can be had! Under these circumstances, I am actually shocked that a 'cadre' hasn't formed (perhaps call it a "Guild") expressly for the purpose of researching & creating the parts needed to build the 5' or 32" replicas using original parts as masters. If the work was done under the paradigm of shared, recouped expense, I'd expect it might provide a reasonable and certainly *faster* means of achieving the goal of building these replicas. Sort of a fan-supported, SS MF 'sourcing' organization. Now that would be collaboration!

    Not to mention 'destroying' the original kits & preventing someone who might actually want to *build* those kits from doing so!

    Of course, many would point to the whole "re-casters are robbing the original makers of their due income" concept (which I normally favor protecting a kit makers' sales potential) but that doesn't really apply to second-hand sales under the guise of 'collectibles' nor even perhaps when an entire kit isn't the goal but rather the piecemeal component(s) assemblies. In effect, the individual parts, as intellectual property, are irrelevant - it is the compilations that matter. Also, I expect AMT reissuing the Kenworth Cabover kit (for example) is certainly getting their due; AMT being, btw, an entirely different entity than that which engineered & produced the kit originally! I say, if the manufacturers or holders of those kit artifacts (assuming they even exist any longer [Aurora Sealab comes to mind]) are interested in a smattering of parts recasters meeting a need which they are themselves failing to capitalize on, then they should "have at it".

    This idea isn't from whole cloth as just such activity is ongoing here (and I expect elsewhere) at RPF. Which is as it should be - folks are building models of the model MF after all. If however someone wishes to build a completely "authentic & accurate to the original" down to using the same grade of plywood, etc. then I wish them the best.

    So, what to do? Perhaps, once someone has reasonably taken time to obtain their source kit, they can then share their findings? That would mitigate the demand impact for original 'finder' while meeting the need to share & promote collaboration. Even better would be the second idea which is to 1) ID the part 2) obtain a specimen then 3) use it as a master for sharing replicated parts & dimensions (for the CAD folks...) End result: instead of one hard to find source, there may be several developed sources for the needed pieces, plus at reasonable prices. Just needs to be more organized, I suppose, since it sort of is already happening (to a degree...)

    Anyway, there you go.

    Regards, Robert
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
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  18. imurme

    imurme Active Member

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    HEAR...HEAR!

    ...my thoughts exactly on the issue...

    imurme
     
  19. faustus100

    faustus100 Well-Known Member

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    Lol but who "obtains" the specimen? You may or may not know this .There are some kits for this build that I hadn't seen available in years, and when they did become available they cost in excess of $750. (Actually that was the cost years ago so I can imagine the costs now).Only to find that 1 or 2 parts are used from that kit.
    Who will absorb that cost? And if so is it fair to then ask that person to make you a casting for almost nothing? Remember all the sweat and tears that went into getting it. And also bear in mind that you will probably take a huge lose on that investment because most people wouldn't pay that for it.
    True,now there are options such as 3d printing that may make it more cost effective to go that route. But this has only just really become available in the last several years.
    But also be aware that there are those purists that believe facsimiles just won't cut it and they want the actual part. If you want to scratch build a part,then we dont need to have this discussion.
    All I'm saying is that when you first get into SS building your "bright eyed and bushy tailed". Then reality steps in and smacks you hard. You soon realize this build will cost you in excess of 25k! But If you establish some sort of kit consortium and you all agree to share the costs going in,then God speed! But even in doing that,someone will need to take the lead and actually MAKE the purchase.( And that's provided that the kit even becomes available.) If you can arrange that I wish you all the luck. But if you've got loads of time and dont mind not using original parts or castings, I would say that 3d printing is a great option. And if that be the case then you don't need ids at all,just good reference and your all set.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  20. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    If there were a group willing to collaborate on obtaining the kits, then the cost could either be 1) shared upfront amongst the "members", and/or 2) once the needed parts are ID's & 'mapped', then the kit can be resold (if not wanted just for its own sake) to recoup/ offset costs - or some other means not yet mentioned. It just requires a decision to organize and take advantage of the group's resources - and the starting point should be with one of the folks who has already made strides in collecting the kits. So start a club!

    Like I said, it would take better organization than what exists at this time. Certainly, the needed skills already reside within the forum to make the process work from top to bottom. But then, we could be speaking of just a handful of folks even attempting to build an actual 5-footer, so the point may be moot. 'Purity' aside, my bet is on the guy(s) creating a 3D 5-footer that would allow for production of replica parts (ironic, replica model kit parts for a replica MF filming model...) 3D printing of masters for resin production tooling seems the most viable method, baring access to the actual parts as masters.

    In the end, I am only voicing my opinion (and defending it, as it were) but I have no 'dog in the fight' beyond the decals issue. My involvement is aimed at a goal of my own personal 'near 1/2 studio scale' MF builds (assuming the 5-footer is 1/24th scale... if such a concept even applies!) Any build I do to replicate the filming model to a reduced 28 inch size will necessarily rely on either scratchbuilding or 'homage' techniques (aka 'close enough for government work'.) I plan on casting my work and offering it to the community through some means, perhaps as limited runs via a commercial caster based on subscription (aka 'signup sheet.) But my intent is to share the results, just as others have shared with me. I will avail myself of the shared resources in the forum RE:the current state of the 5-footer, and discussions/ discovery RE: the missing elements, but at some point it will just have to be 'good enough' (since I cannot time-travel.) Realistically, when I consider exactly how little time the 5-footer appears in the original movie (and even less thereafter), will it matter a whit? As long as it has the features of the 5-footer and not the 32-incher, I'll be happy with the outcome. Hopefully it won't take me a lifetime (or a fortune) to achieve.

    But having part ID's CAN help, as in the case of 1/24 scale kit parts, most which will appear in approximate form (like the Airfix Hurricane wing) as 1/48 scale kit parts (such as - yes - the Airfix 1/48 Hurricane!) So it can be fun - and useful - to learn of these things - in spite of the secrecy!

    Regards, Robert
     
  21. faustus100

    faustus100 Well-Known Member

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    Robert as I mentioned I agree,you would need to start a separate club. Also when I hear terms like "purity aside", "half scale" ,"approximate form" and "homage techniques" I realize that you and I don't have an argument at all really. These terms are rarely if ever used in the SS forum. I realize that your argument doesn't belong here at all. You should be in the general section. That being said,I'm still very much looking forward to the decal sheets!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  22. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Faustus100, I too am looking forward to some solid results from all this research into the markings... ;^)

    To illustrate the tie in to the donor kits, I just resolved that the 'hazmat diamonds' present on the starboard lower docking tunnel and the starboard side of the aft landing gear box are from the large scale Bandai M60A2 kit (1:15, IIRC); they are actually yellow diamond shaped unit marking with the number '15' in red. So far, that is the only one other than the myriad of decals gleaned from the AMT trucks kits... updates to the Decal Tracker spreadsheet coming shortly. Cheers!

    Regards, Robert

    ------------------------------------------------------------UPDATE:
    The '12' diamonds (Bandai got the '2' reversed) is actually from the 1/24 Bandai M60A1 kit, not the 1:15th Patton...
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  23. SteveStarkiller

    SteveStarkiller Sr Member

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    hey, not to derail but...

    was a conclusion ever reached about the shape of the actual hole for the access pit in the forward starboard quarter? One of the models was showing a square hole there a few pages back, but then it was omitted all together on the final (beautiful) plans that were release. Just curious cause I need to cut a hole for my ep 7 falcon, where I'm using the panel layout from the top-down ortho photogrammetric solution.

    thanks guys!
     
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  24. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Steve, you're talking about the square(ish) hole that defines the cavity underneath the surface plates (which define a more round hole.) Right?
    Regards, Robert
     
  25. SteveStarkiller

    SteveStarkiller Sr Member

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    yep, that's the one. Just curious about it's general dimensions relative the panels
     
  26. Vacformedhero

    Vacformedhero Sr Member

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    Hi Stu , I have really being enjoying the progress of your ss falcon, have you any other progress?
    I am a 5 foot dreamer , currently enjoying the engineering process of creating the falcon hulls on a budget (I will post my results elsewhere so as not to derail this thread)
    inhave some materials questions regarding the original materials used in the falcon on and some modern alternatives.
    originally it's being mentioned that plywood was used for the internal and external structure, was this marine grade plywood ? Does normal plywood warp over time even if kept in regulated temperatures? Also your choice of acrylic for the turret is a very clean solution especially for adhering styrene sheeting, the same question for acyrlic , over time is acrylic more resilient to warping than marine ply ?
    thanks for your sharing so far, keep up the great work and maybe I'll have something to show soon.
    Brian
     
  27. TazMan2000

    TazMan2000 Sr Member

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    All wood will warp to some degree. Regulating the temperature may slow the fact, but it still will continue. Sealing the wood will delay the warping even more, but the act of sealing may cause even more warpage depending on what the wood's moisture content is and what type of wood it is.

    TazMan2000
     
  28. Vacformedhero

    Vacformedhero Sr Member

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    Any new build info, how is your progress going
     
  29. batguy

    batguy Sr Member

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    With a model the size of the 5ft Falcon, do yourself a favor & start by building an internal steel framework with a bunch of good hard-points for mounting.

    You will thank yourself as the project progresses. Stiffness of the shape, safety in terms of handling & mounting it, adding electricals (read: heat) inside, etc. Steel sounds heavy but it's probably not a big weight penalty in this situation. This doesn't call for a couple of big flat square or round tubes the size of coffee cans inside, it calls for more like a basic wire-frame you see inside of an aircraft. Any decent amount of wood or other material will end up weighing a lot too and have other downsides. You don't need mass inside this shape, you need STIFFNESS.

    Don't limit yourself to what you can work with right now. Imagine what kind of frame you would ideally want first and then start thinking about how to do it. Moderate sized steel pieces can be cut without huge heavy expensive tools. If you can't weld it then you can do the cutting/fitting yourself and then pay someone to weld it for you.

    Remember that a 5ft Falcon will be a huge project. You will end up with a ton of money & time invested in it before it's done.
     
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  30. Vacformedhero

    Vacformedhero Sr Member

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    Thanks for that Bat,
    I have being reviewing options
    One example is the original mounting frame looked to be 2.5 inch Gunbarrel , i'm in the process of sourcing the equivalent in aluminium tubing to see would it have the strength to maintain the rigidity needed for a model of this size, I am also considering some materials options for the hull shape, like could an aluminium hull be better all round , I currently have a piece approx the size of the falcon hull (My wifes response when seeing me "sneaking " in the back gate it was "I DONT WANT TO KNOW LOL").
    but there are other questions I have regarding some of the structure and whether it needs to be as dense as plywood, an example would be the front mandibles, they are not structural , once boxed with styrene any dense core should be sufficient (I am aware there are mounting points in the mandibles, I am considering loosing these to as mounting it top or bottom at an angle allows the filming of the engines)
    I should kick off my explorations on a separate thread to keep this thread clear.
    Thanks
    Brian
     
  31. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Fiberglass?
    R/ Robert
     
  32. batguy

    batguy Sr Member

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    In case you can't tell, I have been thinking about a big Falcon build myself for the last few years. I also have some light welding/fab tools & experience.


    Fiberglass is not a bad idea but I would still want steel inside of it.

    Aftermarket fiberglass hoods on sports cars are similar size to a big Falcon. They tend to use steel inserts molded into them in places. Sometimes for stiffness along the shape. The hood hinge & latch attachment points normally have a metal backing too.



    Aluminum could be a good option too, depending on some factors. But I would not want aluminum as the actual hard-points. Alumium is very soft in terms of surface wear compared to steel. That is way too much potential for trouble if the threads/etc ever got torn or hogged out. (What are you gonna do, just cut the attachment bits out & weld in some new ones? On the finished model?) I would want steel for the actual spots for bolts/etc to go into.

    A hybrid steel/aluminum frame could be a good setup. But you would need to attach those dis-similar metals together somehow, be it mechanical or adhesive. It should save some weight over all-steel in theory, although it probably would not save as much weight as you'd hope for.
     
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  33. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Apologies, Batguy, I thought someone was contemplating making the shell from aluminum. My suggestion was to use fiberglass for the main core & shell as it would be lighter and present less stress on the internal armature.

    RE: the wear issue, I suspect there are some steel pipe fittings that could be used that would allow for the mount point caps to be swapped out in case of damage. Cross threading would be the main concern, I expect.
    Cheers! Robert
     
  34. Vacformedhero

    Vacformedhero Sr Member

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    Any progress on this big bird ? Any news, I've started gathering rarer kits ....wondered how you've got on.
     
  35. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Here's a few pics of parts in progress.
    Hull build construction I am just about to start to attach all these bits to.
    The mandible pits are interesting in themselves. No two seem to be alike in diameter to make the donor parts fit correctly. So each one has to be carefully placed out, sometimes two or three times to get things sitting right.
    I have in progress build pics of these various parts if anyone is keen to see them.
    More soon.

    Stu
     

    Attached Files:

  36. Rats

    Rats Sr Member

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    Bloody awesome work Stu. You really get to appreciate the size of the beast when you hold up the jaw-box and mandible parts!
     
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  37. 3phase

    3phase Well-Known Member

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    Mate will you ever finnish this and give me an excuse to go to NZ
     
  38. ozzyguanche

    ozzyguanche Sr Member

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    Would love to see the progress pics.
     
  39. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks guys...haha yes I do plan on finishing it asap!. Going hard to get the hull with all assemblies attached by Dec. Plating & final detailing & paint in January. Easier said than done, but you have to have a plan right!.
    Here's a few more pics of how parts came to be, sometimes one forgets to take pics in the haste of just pure building,,,oops!.
    The new Chronicles book is a godsend in pics of the underside hull pits in original configuration as well as other areas.

    Stu
     

    Attached Files:

  40. joberg

    joberg Master Member

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    It`s a big beast alright:eek Such a cool project; you have all of my admiration:cool
     
  41. newmagrathea

    newmagrathea Sr Member

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    Wonderful work. Very clean.
     
  42. bwayne64

    bwayne64 Well-Known Member

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    Man Stu ! That thing is going to be a thing of beauty , me likey alot ! Question, are you using a notcher on the plating , or cutting the notches by hand.

    Joe
     
  43. astroboy

    astroboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Good Lord...

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
  44. Rats

    Rats Sr Member

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    Middle picture, top row. I had the same question until I saw this.....:)
     
  45. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Cheers guys.
    Yes, all those notches were cut out using a nibbler, just as ILM did. So easy & a joy to um...nibble!. I even went so far as to match how each nibble was cut, meaning if it was cut at a slight angle or a bit shallow, all matched to the ref.
    The nibbler is just a $10 one off ebay, does the job perfectly.

    I really need to get the hull going now, everything has been worked out with the measures coming up trumps & this is all thanks to a wonderful team effort over the years, oh heck has it been that long...yikes!.

    Stu
     

    Attached Files:

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  46. bwayne64

    bwayne64 Well-Known Member

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    Oops, missed that, thanks Rats,

    Joe

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Stu, looks great ! Can't wait to see it finished. Almost a shame to paint it. These models always look good nekkid ;-)

    Joe
     
  47. ozzyguanche

    ozzyguanche Sr Member

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    Hi Stu, Which Chronicles?
     
  48. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The updated Chronicles which came out late last year. I say updated, but it's pretty much all new!. Available from Amazon Japan, well it was, not sure now, may have sold out until new stock.
    ANH Falcon imagery is stunning, page after page of goodness!.

    Stu
     
  49. Vacformedhero

    Vacformedhero Sr Member

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    Agreed , the Japanese Star Wars Chronicles Vehicles episode 4,5,6 , I have it too, larger format images , less text (thankfully as all Japanese , but google translate works well on the phone) it's expensive but since I've committed to building the falcon it's a great investment.
    IMG_9612.JPG IMG_9613.JPG
    Stu, brilliant to see an update on the builds, I just got modern Koolshade for mine , I'll still hunt for the vintage but for the moment I'll cross that off the list )
     
    greeble_gremlin likes this.
  50. greeble_gremlin

    greeble_gremlin Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Wow !
    Lookin' good Stu, you're really making head-way.
     

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