Bucky Films
New Member
I find blank guns are not needed as they are to dangerous and we have replica pistols (like airsofts) now anyway.
Your thoughts??
Edit: for movies
Your thoughts??
Edit: for movies
Blank guns
- Thread starter Bucky Films
- Start date
Ttaskmaster
Well-Known Member
As a member of a Living History display group, I'd have to wholeheartedly disagree. In our displays, we use live weapons professionally adapted to fire only blanks. For static displays we use deactivated firearms.
Top end Airsofts look quite reasonable to a point, but fall down once you get within 10 feet of them.
The argument for Airsofts falls down when we roll into the battle or firepower displays, load up, settle in and unleash, say, the mighty .30 cal machine gun and all you get from it is a quiet, pathetic little 'Phutta-phutta--phutta-phutta-phutta"....
The audience want the big muzzle-flashes and the "BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA"!!!
Much better with full on blanks, far simpler and perfectly safe so long as you follow safety guidelines and common-sense.
Now, for the movies, pretty much the exact same thing applies.
Even with today's amazingly high standard of CGI, folks can still tell FX shots from the real thing. Some can even listen to the overdub and tell it's not real when compared to the moving image.
TBH, I don't often hear of a production going wrong because of the use of blanks.
Top end Airsofts look quite reasonable to a point, but fall down once you get within 10 feet of them.
The argument for Airsofts falls down when we roll into the battle or firepower displays, load up, settle in and unleash, say, the mighty .30 cal machine gun and all you get from it is a quiet, pathetic little 'Phutta-phutta--phutta-phutta-phutta"....
The audience want the big muzzle-flashes and the "BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA"!!!
Much better with full on blanks, far simpler and perfectly safe so long as you follow safety guidelines and common-sense.
Now, for the movies, pretty much the exact same thing applies.
Even with today's amazingly high standard of CGI, folks can still tell FX shots from the real thing. Some can even listen to the overdub and tell it's not real when compared to the moving image.
TBH, I don't often hear of a production going wrong because of the use of blanks.
Delmustator
Sr Member
SSGT Kitten
Active Member
Some of the higher end airsofts (and I'm talking in the $400-$600 range) can be extremely accurate looking, even up close or handled. Key word: looking. As long you don't fire them, they can easily pass for the real thing. However, in the event you want accurate looking firefights (even filmed, and not for a live audience) airsoft and replicas can't pull it off.
Charlie
Charlie
Grey
Sr Member
Maybe if you're getting your airsoft guns from Wal-mart. There's nothing unrealistic about an all metal Airsoft from one of the reputable brands like Tokyo Mauri.
Oh and for the sake of arguement, Marushin CZ57. (shell ejecting airsoft) They have various other models using the same function.
YouTube - Marushin Dual Maxi Cz-75 Shell Ejecting GBB - First Look‏
All referring to replicas of course. As previously stated if you want to film a firefight for a movie blanks are the way to go.
robstyle
Master Member
You guys arnt just seeing replica airsoft but also rubber and totally static guns in many films and tv shows. Reason is for many factors including safety, noise, reliability, cost, and time not to mention the flash and such needs to be enhanced in post. The talk of "doesnt cycle fast enough" and the like is a moot point, it doesnt read on camera and editing solves most "gun nut" issues. Gas blowback's dont jam, are reliable, can be used all day without issue of excessive noise, danger of igniting pyro, or the cost of a weapons permit/handler.... The list goes on and on. They have been used in tv/film that I know of directly since the 80's as well as blowback cap guns which are also still used although the caps are becoming harder and harder to get. A little trick to get some gas to appear as smoke out of the barrel and breach is to shake it like a polaroid picture before shooting.
Here are some of my gas blowbacks next to rubber castings of the real deal. These kick hard and loud and fast enough to make a first time user ask safety questions:
Here are some of my gas blowbacks next to rubber castings of the real deal. These kick hard and loud and fast enough to make a first time user ask safety questions:
Bucky Films
New Member
In film you can edit sound and muzzle flashes in, however on stage I can understand that blanks are probably a better option.
The recoil and cycling is still much slower than a real pistol, however high end you go with airsofts. I just doesn't produce the same reaction from the person firing it. Of course, in some cases this is a bonus, as a few actors handle firearms badly :lol Of course airsofts are used in films and TV today, but they can never replace a good blank conversion when you have close ups of the weapon actually being shot.
Bucky Films
New Member
I like using airsofts because some actors make way to much recoil with the blank guns.
Then they need to be taught how to handle firearms correctly. The majority of films have apalling handling. Michael Mann invests a lot of time and money to train his actors correctly and extensively, and it certainly shows in his films.
VariablePenguin
Well-Known Member
I like this thread. It reminds me of Bullet Tooth Tony's quote from Snatch when they hold him up with Replica guns.
Bucky Films
New Member
I love Micheal Mann (crime story mostly)
Ttaskmaster
Well-Known Member
Airsofts and rubber ones give you options, particularly for use in non-firing scenes. Then you only need something that looks right.
Cost is a factor too, though.
A top of the range shell-ejecting airsoft assault rifle used for one short film costs thousands, which you then spend loads more money in post-prod CGI-ing in mostly accurate firing effects.
For the same film, I can spend £80 and hire the real rifle (adapted for blanks) plus a whole case of blank ammo for about the same. There are numerous companies who supply this service to various industries - Several guys use the same company for their film that us re-enactors hire our battle display guns from.
The other main advantage is that Airsofts tend to break if you treat them too harshly. I'd rather have something that can be treated realistically.
Cost is a factor too, though.
A top of the range shell-ejecting airsoft assault rifle used for one short film costs thousands, which you then spend loads more money in post-prod CGI-ing in mostly accurate firing effects.
For the same film, I can spend £80 and hire the real rifle (adapted for blanks) plus a whole case of blank ammo for about the same. There are numerous companies who supply this service to various industries - Several guys use the same company for their film that us re-enactors hire our battle display guns from.
The other main advantage is that Airsofts tend to break if you treat them too harshly. I'd rather have something that can be treated realistically.
Noeland
Master Member
If you're not taking the time to train your actors, then you should not be putting any kind of gun in their hands. Even gas blowback airsoft. But if you have trained your actors properly, or they are already familiar with gun handling and more importantly gun safety, then having blank firing guns on set is perfectly safe for everyone.
Ive worked with real firearms loaded with blanks on multiple no budget productions. I've also had the umarex, voltran, kimar, and bruni replicas on set at different times. Keep in mind, I am in very familiar with guns and I keep a very close eye on things, keep the set very safe and comfortable, and I train the actors myself.
If you can't do that, then give them rubber guns, or cheapo spring airsoft guns, and make it work in post. There are great programs that let you add in muzzle flash, and even ejecting shell casings that look convincing. You just have to film the guns the right way so it's artistic and not obvious or distracting that you're using digital tricks.
But really, no digital cover ups will fix an actor who looks clumsy and untrained. It stands out.
Ive worked with real firearms loaded with blanks on multiple no budget productions. I've also had the umarex, voltran, kimar, and bruni replicas on set at different times. Keep in mind, I am in very familiar with guns and I keep a very close eye on things, keep the set very safe and comfortable, and I train the actors myself.
If you can't do that, then give them rubber guns, or cheapo spring airsoft guns, and make it work in post. There are great programs that let you add in muzzle flash, and even ejecting shell casings that look convincing. You just have to film the guns the right way so it's artistic and not obvious or distracting that you're using digital tricks.
But really, no digital cover ups will fix an actor who looks clumsy and untrained. It stands out.
