Best Trek Uniforms Source Wrath of Khan Style

[Got Maul]

Wool elastique was used for the 'hero' uniforms (Principles)
whipchord, which is also BAND uniform material was used for the 'B' uniforms.
The weave in whipcord is more similar to gabardine (hence the confusion but is more pronounced. Its fairly heavyweight and durable and hangs well which is is why its used for uniforms. Whipcord can be a worsted or a synth blend.
A lot of the confusion with TWOK materials has been based on
A. which movie the uniform was from (they changed slightly movie to movie)
B. People studying different uniforms. If they got their hands on a HERO uniform they would say ELASTIQUE but if they got a hold of a 'B' they could think gaberdine from the weave (because its similart to whipcord)
Elastique is a higer quality material and the similarity would be as in the military of getting your ISSUED dress uniform or going to clothing and sales and paying for a nicer qulaity dress uniform.
Also an FYI on the 'white' trims...they arent white per say but more of an off white/vanilla (it has some yellow in it that in person makes it look aged but its not that is teh actual color) that reads as white on screen so you have to decide whether you want accurate as to the real garment or as to how it LOOKS on screen.

I knew those guys were just trying to sell me something. Thanks for clearing that up. Also, I love the off white color -

 

[peter1701]

bump

 

[optimus]

heres a pic of my WOC kirk uniform

 

[Jet Beetle]

I have pics of the ones on Display in Vegas -- I'll have to look around for them but before I do, were the suits there actually screen used? They looked like it but I have no idea.

 

[jts1031]

Back when King's Island was owned by Paramount, they had some prop displays throughout the park, like from Untouchables, Days of Thunder, etc. One of the displays was of Kirk's Trek VI uniform. They had the tunic with undershirt, assault phaser and comm. They had not been on display for very long, but the tunic was already almost completely faded, something to keep in mind if you go the route of the originals...

 

[docholl]

Wool elastique was used for the 'hero' uniforms (Principles)
whipchord, which is also BAND uniform material was used for the 'B' uniforms.

All monster maroons were made from wool elastique. While the cut and color varied a bit, the material did not. Not a single maroon sold by IAW was anything but wool elsatique and plenty of them were for background players (all the way to ST VII) including the one that I have in my collection. The understanding in collecting circles is that Paramount bought a supply of wool elastique for STII which they used to make maroons though-out the TWOK era films. When it was gone that was it, so no more new maroons were made. That is why so many maroons look ill-fitted to the actors wearing them in the later movies. They were hand-me-downs.

If someone has a surviving maroon made from gabardine, I'd like to see pix of it.

 

[Got Maul]

That would explain why there is a red striping underneath the grey stripe of my pants.

 

[Onigiri]

What you are stating is an ASSUMPTION and at odds with what Ive been told by those that worked on the costumes. Im relaying what I was told by folks involved as opposed to an 'understanding' by collectors and hearsay.
There was not ONE batch of dyed elastique and there were new uniforms made. I know that the folks that dyed the material did so more then once. They may have purchased yards of UNDYED material in bulk but it wasnt all dyed and there were new maroons made over the course of the movies. You are stating things as fact that are merely assumptions. The fact that SOME background uniforms may be made from elastique (or converted for background use from previous 'A' uniforms) does not constitute for a fact that ALL secondary uniforms are made from elastique. Now it could be that folks who actually worked on the show may have faulty memories (we've seen it with props and costumes before) but I wont outright dismiss their input based on a few items in some peoples collections which is hardly all inclusive. That being said I have never seen one of the 'whipcord' uniforms either and have handled a few real maroons myself all of which varied in color to some degree.

All monster maroons were made from wool elastique. While the cut and color varied a bit, the material did not. Not a single maroon sold by IAW was anything but wool elsatique and plenty of them were for background players (all the way to ST VII) including the one that I have in my collection. The understanding in collecting circles is that Paramount bought a supply of wool elastique for STII which they used to make maroons though-out the TWOK era films. When it was gone that was it, so no more new maroons were made. That is why so many maroons look ill-fitted to the actors wearing them in the later movies. They were hand-me-downs.

If someone has a surviving maroon made from gabardine, I'd like to see pix of it.

 

[Jet Beetle]

I thought when the decision was made to alter the uniforms for 2 they used the guard uniforms from The Motion Picture and altered them.

 

[Onigiri]

IIRC the guard uniforms got redyed and used for security uniforms (again) and I BELIEVE (but not sure as Im old) that some of the other TMP uniforms were re-dyed and used as cadet/enlisted.

 

[garver76]

What you are stating is an ASSUMPTION and at odds with what Ive been told by those that worked on the costumes. Im relaying what I was told by folks involved as opposed to an 'understanding' by collectors and hearsay.
There was not ONE batch of dyed elastique and there were new uniforms made. I know that the folks that dyed the material did so more then once. They may have purchased yards of UNDYED material in bulk but it wasnt all dyed and there were new maroons made over the course of the movies. You are stating things as fact that are merely assumptions. The fact that SOME background uniforms may be made from elastique (or converted for background use from previous 'A' uniforms) does not constitute for a fact that ALL secondary uniforms are made from elastique. Now it could be that folks who actually worked on the show may have faulty memories (we've seen it with props and costumes before) but I wont outright dismiss their input based on a few items in some peoples collections which is hardly all inclusive. That being said I have never seen one of the 'whipcord' uniforms either and have handled a few real maroons myself all of which varied in color to some degree.

Then explain how all of us who actually own Maroon jackets all have the exact same fabric construction. Between the group who own a LOT of these unfiorms (probably 30+) original jackets, we have compared detailed pictures and shared them in person.... every single one of them is identical in fabric type and nearly identical in color, usually the color differences are due to dry-cleaning from re-use... It's always fun when people who have seen a uniform or two in their lifetime (or the Kathy P reworked originals at the experience) argue with people who own several of them currently.... I own two, one is from Trek II and the other I can only guarantee was used in Voyager, but shows definite signs of alteration... they both look nearly identical in color, and the fabric is 100% the same material and weave.

You can't take people's word at things they did from years ago... The Admirable at the 1701st argued with me about TWOK style pants because he had touch A pair of pants 10 years ago.... while I was posting pics of the pants I owned at the time.

The only area that shows certain differences between principal and stunt / background TWOK uniforms is the pants... they are different style fabrics and are constructed differently... Contrary to rumors started by Joe K and Kathy P, there were NOT different materials used for jackets.... there were alterations... Again, this is not an assumption... this is based on real collections in peoples hands ranging from re-used background player no-names to the lead roles like Cartright, Chekov, and McCoys....

Did any of the Maroons fit in Trek VII? Nope, they were all reused.... Did most of the people's uniforms fit in Trek VI? Not so well... just take a look at the crew on the Excelsior... they are all horrible...

 

[garver76]

IIRC the guard uniforms got redyed and used for security uniforms (again) and I BELIEVE (but not sure as Im old) that some of the other TMP uniforms were re-dyed and used as cadet/enlisted.

That is correct... all the white TMP jumpsuits you saw in TMP got dyed and chopped and turned into the TWOK enlisted jump suits... look closely at any opf the enlisted jumpsuits and you will see that the thread used to stitch them together did not take to the dying process and remained white!

 

[vaderdarth]

for what it's worth, the terms whipcord and monster maroon were first used in an interview with the costuming dept. shortly after Wrath of Khan was released. If I recall it was a Starlog magazine interview. They weren't foggy on the issue way back then. They also mentioned that on the original spandex undershirts........in the collars and sleeves, it wasn't fiberfill making them puffy, but thread was compression blown into each little "rib" pocket, then sewn shut. Supposedly some sort of needle assembly literally blew the thread out the tip. It was a very descriptive article on the process.

Dave

 

[Onigiri]

I believe I was clear that memories from people working on the show are not always clear but the fact that they DID work on the show means they do not get dismissed out of hand. Even when there is a preponderance of evidence it is still an assumption (albeit an EDUCATED assumption granted) that all the uniforms were the same material. The folks that dyed the material stated they did so on separate occasions years apart. Is this a fallacy on their part? Dunno but I have to give them some credence. we have seen different colors from owners of several uniforms and it is an assumption that the uniform shade differences are from dry cleaning. It would be wonderful to have a log of what was built when and I have seen TWOK uniforms (screen used) with rounded corner bibs that look like they were made from the Lincoln patterns (hence the inaccurate round corners). A lot of things that are assumed get touted as known fact here and stated as such. Case in point the Trek 5/6 Phaser's P1 being 'made up'. Not true. It was not used on screen but was indeed built and folks state that it was fan created as fact and it wasnt. Everyone can agree that elastique was, at the very least, the primary fabric and if folks wishing to recreate a TWOK focus on that they will fare better. As for Joe and Kathy I never take somebody completely at face value when they are selling the thing you have a question about as that can color ones recollections and judgement

Then explain how all of us who actually own Maroon jackets all have the exact same fabric construction. Between the group who own a LOT of these unfiorms (probably 30+) original jackets, we have compared detailed pictures and shared them in person.... every single one of them is identical in fabric type and nearly identical in color, usually the color differences are due to dry-cleaning from re-use... It's always fun when people who have seen a uniform or two in their lifetime (or the Kathy P reworked originals at the experience) argue with people who own several of them currently.... I own two, one is from Trek II and the other I can only guarantee was used in Voyager, but shows definite signs of alteration... they both look nearly identical in color, and the fabric is 100% the same material and weave.

You can't take people's word at things they did from years ago... The Admirable at the 1701st argued with me about TWOK style pants because he had touch A pair of pants 10 years ago.... while I was posting pics of the pants I owned at the time.

The only area that shows certain differences between principal and stunt / background TWOK uniforms is the pants... they are different style fabrics and are constructed differently... Contrary to rumors started by Joe K and Kathy P, there were NOT different materials used for jackets.... there were alterations... Again, this is not an assumption... this is based on real collections in peoples hands ranging from re-used background player no-names to the lead roles like Cartright, Chekov, and McCoys....

Did any of the Maroons fit in Trek VII? Nope, they were all reused.... Did most of the people's uniforms fit in Trek VI? Not so well... just take a look at the crew on the Excelsior... they are all horrible...

 

[Onigiri]

Yep, Mr Fletcher has also used the term whipcord and the technique used on the cuffs and collars is called trapunto. The 'bibs' are stiffened IIRC with what is refered to as horse hair (I think thats what they called it) and thats what gives the bibs their 'body'.

for what it's worth, the terms whipcord and monster maroon were first used in an interview with the costuming dept. shortly after Wrath of Khan was released. If I recall it was a Starlog magazine interview. They weren't foggy on the issue way back then. They also mentioned that on the original spandex undershirts........in the collars and sleeves, it wasn't fiberfill making them puffy, but thread was compression blown into each little "rib" pocket, then sewn shut. Supposedly some sort of needle assembly literally blew the thread out the tip. It was a very descriptive article on the process.

Dave

 

[jts1031]

Did any of the Maroons fit in Trek VII? Nope, they were all reused.... Did most of the people's uniforms fit in Trek VI? Not so well... just take a look at the crew on the Excelsior... they are all horrible...

New uniforms were created for Generations. The cut of the tunic is much longer than it was in previous versions, and as much has been stated in interviews before, even if only for the principles...

 

[garver76]

Yep, Mr Fletcher has also used the term whipcord and the technique used on the cuffs and collars is called trapunto. The 'bibs' are stiffened IIRC with what is refered to as horse hair (I think thats what they called it) and thats what gives the bibs their 'body'.

The collars on the older shirts are indeed trapunto filled with thread.... however, some of the newer (trek 5 and 6) have polyfill in them...

One of the enlisted jumpsuits I own has a hard foam tubing inside the collar and cuffs!

Yeah, I too wish that there was an official inventory of what was created when...

The rounded front jacket facing was one of the ones I noticed as being created (and onboard excelsior in trek 6) later on....

Again, like Docholl stated, if anyone actually has a gabardine jacket I too would love to see pics.

Whipcord was mentioned in Fletcher's notes, as was gabardine, but just because it made it into his notes does not mean they used it... we shall see when someone produces evidence of a Gabardine jacket... I mean gabardine is the type fabric they used on the TNG and later uniforms... and the sleeve cuffs, shoulder straps of the TWOKs.... it is WAY different than any of the TWOK jackets I have seen or touched.

 

[garver76]

New uniforms were created for Generations. The cut of the tunic is much longer than it was in previous versions, and as much has been stated in interviews before, even if only for the principles...

Maybe for the Big Shat and the Big Scotty.... but Koenig's was a reuse from previous, and many of the actors (Harriman and Demora) has hand me downs. Interviews are just peoples recollections, the proof is in the name tags that are inside the actually uniforms... when the uniform has a name in it from 3 movies prior there is no way it was a new creation.

These uniforms were altered, altered and altered some more, some had extra fabric added to help with lengthening the hems, sleeves were hemmed up, sleeves were hemmed down...

The budgets on these trek movies did not afford to make $5k dollar jackets for each and every crewman in each and every movie... they reused a ton of items... it is a proven fact that these uniforms were altered and reused... Principle jackets wore out (or got outgrown) and got turned into support cast jackets in the later movies with Western Costume Company tags as proof. Shatner shirts got passed down to Nimoy as he got thicker, paramount pictures tags as proof... Slater wore Shatner's pants in Trek 6...

I will not say that there was never a new Maroon jacket made (as ther eis proof that some very poorly made ones were used in Trek 6), but I will say it is not as common place as some of you seem to think it is. I mean, for the most part all the maroon jackets ever created for Trek are in private collectors hands, and they do not exist in huge numbers like the TNG / FC / NEM uniforms...

 

[docholl]

What you are stating is an ASSUMPTION and at odds with what Ive been told by those that worked on the costumes. Im relaying what I was told by folks involved as opposed to an 'understanding' by collectors and hearsay.
There was not ONE batch of dyed elastique and there were new uniforms made. I know that the folks that dyed the material did so more then once. They may have purchased yards of UNDYED material in bulk but it wasnt all dyed and there were new maroons made over the course of the movies.

Well first off, I did not state that all the elastique material was dyed at one time. Of course not. There were obviously multiple dye lots over the years. As for the recollections of folks who worked on these costumes over 25 years ago, I'd take some of it with a grain of salt. I prefer to rely on hard evidence, that being the surviving costumes. I own one and have handled several others. If there are whipcord or gabardine maroons out there, they have not surfaced to date. If they do, that's OK too. I guess my point is, if someone is going to go through the time and expense of having a monster maroon uniform made, wool elastique is the proper material to use. Do it right.

 

[docholl]

IIRC the guard uniforms got redyed and used for security uniforms (again)

The security guard uniforms were indeed redyed for TWOK. The linings and the Western Costume company labels in them are now orange/red. I have one in my collection.