astroboy
Master Member
That's a tall order...
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Zombie_61
Master Member
And you've just hit on the problem that every person who has ever tried to design anything for Batman had. Every fan has their own idea of who The Batman is, what kind of Batsuit he should wear, what kind of car he should drive, and so on, so it's impossible to please everyone. In the real world, Bruce Wayne would need a variety of each of these items, each one tailored to suit a specific purpose. For example, a completely bullet-proof Batsuit wouldn't be flexible enough for the way he engages in hand-to-hand combat. A Batmobile designed to be visually intimidating wouldn't be clandestine enough for surveillance work. You get the idea. So movie producers decide how they want to present the character, design things that fit their "vision", and hope the majority of audience members like them.
astroboy
Master Member
I completely agree. I'd love to see a batman who have some undercover vehicles as well. A nice fed ex van or transport.
My main problem with the batmobiles is that they always look like parade floats. These massively cartoony vehicles that would only ever draw attention. There's never anything practical about them. They kinda stick out like a sore thumb
Mind you, I did love the armour that Tim Burtons batmobile had. That made sense
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
Which part of the armor made sense, that he didn't have it as armored as possible at all times or that the armor appeared from a pocket universe?
Zombie_61
Master Member
So does the Batsuit. Just once...okay, more than once...I'd like to see Bruce Wayne doing undercover work in disguise and dressed to blend in with people on the street, driving an old beat-up Ford. Do the homework as Joe Schmoe, then show up to take care of business as The Batman driving the bat-winged circus wagon.
Oh you mean the Matches Malone thing...I could get behind that.
http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Matches_Malone
Kind of been an issue ever since they started making the suit armor. The movies really aren't watchable unless you're willing to just suspend disbelief and pretend to forget that that the timeline is...learn about crime...go home...put on eye make up...get into suit of armor that really, you can't just slip over your head like a T shirt (it's a complex outfit that might even require help getting into)..then drive back and hope the crime isn't already over yet.
One of the reasons that the marvel movies are doing better is that they are considerably less cartoony about that. For iron man they devised a whole kind of suit around the problem. For Captain America...more than once he just does without the suit because there isn't time to go change clothes before chasing the bad guy.
Mostly I can suspend disbelief and enjoy it, but it is an issue. There's a limit to how much belief you can suspend before it becomes silly and when you use up that much on ignoring the fact that the hero stopped to put on eye make up before saving the day, there sometimes isn't enough left to forget that the badguy isn't wearing armor and cops carry guns.
Riceball
Master Member
Iirc they had him do that at least once in the Animated Series, I think that he dressed like a bum or something.
Zombie_61
Master Member
True. In the early comics The Batman was basically just a guy dressed in a relatively simple Bat costume, and for the most part the criminals had only knives, guns, and clubs to use as weapons. But times changed, weapons technology advanced, and now ol' Bats needs full body armor and a tank just to protect himself on a routine patrol. Even Frank Miller acknowledged Batman's real-life limitations in his Dark Knight series by explaining Bruce put the Bat symbol on his chest to give "the bad guys" a target to aim at because he couldn't armor his head, arms, or legs.
Also, in the movies their "secret" identities aren't exactly a secret. Everyone knows Tony Stark is Iron Man, Steve Rogers is Captain America, at least half of New York seems to know Peter Parker is Spiderman, and so on, so with the exception of Iron Man the costumes aren't much more than an affectation. But in the DC universe where their real identities have been kept far more secret, they've sort of painted themselves into a corner by having to deal with that issue.
And I'm convinced that, whether by design, result of comic book printing technology, or dumb luck, that's why the eye holes in Batman's cowl are white in the comics--they've simply avoided/side-stepped the issue of having him camouflage his eyes by not giving him any and letting the reader(s) decide for themselves how it would be accomplished in the real world. But in the real world actors gotta see, and it appears the costume designers haven't come up with a way to replicate the look from the comic books and still let the actors see what they're doing.
So, yeah, you really have to suspend a lot of disbelief to buy into the whole superhero thing in the first place. But Batman did a lot of actual detective work in the comics, and that aspect of the character has been largely missing in the movies.
teragon
Sr Member
So, I was watching Watchmen again, and something caught my eyes :
In this scene, you can see Nite Owl with his cowl hanging out like a hood, and his cowl appears to be the same kind of material Batfleck's cowl is made of. Plus the fact that Wilkinson designed both suits, I believe we're finally going to get to see something like this :
That would be really cool.
In this scene, you can see Nite Owl with his cowl hanging out like a hood, and his cowl appears to be the same kind of material Batfleck's cowl is made of. Plus the fact that Wilkinson designed both suits, I believe we're finally going to get to see something like this :
That would be really cool.
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DAVIDYR1
Official Licensee
the Nite Owl cowl was foam latex. Same material used for Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney and Bale. All were foam latex.
David.
teragon
Sr Member
Interesting. How come Nite Owl seemed to have more flexibility than the others then ? Thinner coat ? Or maybe different material entirely for this particular scene, and the one he actually remove it like a hood on screen ? I read somewhere that Affleck being able to turn his head in the cowl was a priority in the design, so either they perfected the foam latex technique or it's something else.
Bullitt
Active Member
David is right. There is actually a Behind The Scenes shot of Michael Keaton getting his cowl put on through the mouth hole for the '89 movie. I'll see if I can find it.
EDIT: Found it at the 9:35 minute mark of this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-upVRCARAo
EDIT: Found it at the 9:35 minute mark of this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-upVRCARAo
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Father
Sr Member
I always figured scenes where the hero has a mask pulled off like a hoodie or removed completely is for effect. You never see them put that one back on all the way. They usually cut away at some point.
Kind of like Spider-Man... he pulls off and puts back on his mask a lot. We know the newer movies there's a shell under the material so when he removes it and it's loose you know it's for effect. Or in the Raimi ones when he puts his mask back on, it's seamless with the collar of his suit...
Pretty sure it's the same with current The Flash. He takes off the mask like a hoodie quite a bit, but I don't think you ever see him put it back on all the way.
I would think for that Burton Batman, when he's pulling that thing on through the face hole it would eventually rip. That stuff only has so much flex before it tears, doesn't it?
I imagine the Batfleck version will be material with some sort of rigid form underneath or something like Spider-Man's. If we hadn't already seen shots of him wearing the mask I'd say Snyder would just CG it like he did the entire Kryptonian armor suits in MoS.
Bullitt
Active Member
You are correct for the most part. All Spidey movie masks had shells underneath and the entire suit was one piece, incl. the mask. Different suits for when he takes his mask off.
Same thing for The Flash. Flash and Reverse Flash have foam latex masks, except in hoodie form, they seem to be made out of leather. Probably, because it lays flatter than foam latex would. The effect of the latter is visible in Watchmen when Nite Owl removes his mask. It lays kinda weird in the neck, because it keeps its form like foam latex does. My theory is we are probably going to see the same thing with the new Batman.
Keaton didn't use this effect in the movie itself, probably just for breaks between shooting to get some air without having to remove the entire suit again. Why else use the face hole, right? If it wears or rips then it's just onto a new cowl.
Same thing for The Flash. Flash and Reverse Flash have foam latex masks, except in hoodie form, they seem to be made out of leather. Probably, because it lays flatter than foam latex would. The effect of the latter is visible in Watchmen when Nite Owl removes his mask. It lays kinda weird in the neck, because it keeps its form like foam latex does. My theory is we are probably going to see the same thing with the new Batman.
Keaton didn't use this effect in the movie itself, probably just for breaks between shooting to get some air without having to remove the entire suit again. Why else use the face hole, right? If it wears or rips then it's just onto a new cowl.
