Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[third3ye]

Here's the blog post I wrote up regarding my thoughts on the casting. I put it on my personal (and little used) blog rather than the Talaria Press blog because I kind of go off on a rant, and the language is a little sharp at the end for emphasis.

Thoughts on Wonder Woman's Casting

Generally speaking I'm VERY doubtful DC/WB will portray WW fairly to the spirit of the character and what she means as a role model to the female audience, kids in particular. They already got strike one when they cast an anorexic to play her, what message does that tell women about the ideal body type? Moreover, Snyder's past films typically put his female leads in very much of a supporting role, and the only film where they were the center focus was Sucker Punch :facepalm where he felt compelled to sex them up in ridiculous costumes, give the characters zero personalities, and their alternate reality is them working in a brothel. So yeah... I doubt his version of WW is going to be the next Katniss Everdeen.

As for your examples of CBM romance, couple things:
-Typo, you meant Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises for Rachel and Selina, respectively
-Lois Lane in MoS was AWFUL - they put her in scenes just so she can be saved, even when she had no business being in that scene, not very empowering; also I didn't think Adams had any chemistry with Cavill whatsoever
-Hemsworth and Portman is another bad example of CBM romance
-RDJ and Paltrow is IMO one of the few successful romance efforts in CBM (not to mention Pepper is the one who KOs the big baddie in IM1 and IM3); Evans and Atwell was also done fairly well in TFA but short-lived

 

[third3ye]

I think you guys aren't looking at Zack Snyder's track record. After Sucker Punch, Snyder's proven he is an extremely competent moviemaker when it comes to putting women on the big screen.

The only film he's done as a director or producer that's been released after Sucker Punch is MoS, where he gave Lois a split second of being a tough no-BS reporter and then the rest of the movie he put her in scenes where it makes no sense she should be there (Zod's ship, the C7 in the grand finale) just so she can get saved by Supes. I highly disagree with you there, if anything Snyder has proven he's MORE willing to dis-empower women on the big screen.

 

[JD]

The only film he's done as a director or producer that's been released after Sucker Punch is MoS, where he gave Lois a split second of being a tough no-BS reporter and then the rest of the movie he put her in scenes where it makes no sense she should be there (Zod's ship, the C7 in the grand finale) just so she can get saved by Supes. I highly disagree with you there, if anything Snyder has proven he's MORE willing to dis-empower women on the big screen.

My sarcasm is lost on you.

 

[third3ye]

My sarcasm is lost on you.

Hard to tell man, you need to emoticon that puppy! :lol

 

[JD]

Metallo Rumored To Be Main Villain For Batman Vs. Superman: And No Lex Luthor? - Cosmic Book News

 

[firesprite]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but I disagree with pretty much everything in that blog.

As stated, they're my thoughts and opinions. You're under no obligation to agree.


@JetBeetle: I have SO much respect for you, Paul (I'm also not-so-secretly jealous that you got to hang out with Lynda). I hope like hell that I'm wrong. The fact that there have been so many pitches and nothing has moved forward though, is a little disheartening, especially when horrid stuff like the David E. Kelley travesty got so far along. And believe me, I have definitely noticed that Marvel has thus far lacked a serious leading lady who can carry a title on her own. That's another reason it's so incredibly important that DC not mess this up.

 

[Father]

I've never followed the WW character as a reader... more along with the various incarnations of JL cartoons. That said, I don't know what kind of role-model she's supposed to be for young girls. She's strong, she kicks ass, she's got a perfect body and is overall hot. If that's the archetype for a female role-model, then I guess she's been nailing it.

I would rather she be played out as coming from a society that doesn't trust men, is a skilled fighter to the point of brutality, and is beautiful and intimidating at the same time. Nobody is going to hit on her because she projects "I will break you, little man" or "I'm more woman than you could ever handle".

I've said this before and I'm sticking with it... I think the "regime" costume from Injustice: Gods Among Us is perfect (and not just because her front parts are huge... but it doesn't hurt)



I also think she needs to be as tall if not taller than her male counterparts, also to give that Amazonian presence.

Also, just my opinions...

 

[firesprite]

I'd be really happy with something along these lines:


(Meagan Marie is the Cosplayer, giving credit where credit is definitely due).

 

[YenChih Lin]

thumbsup:thumbsup

-Lois Lane in MoS was AWFUL - they put her in scenes just so she can be saved, even when she had no business being in that scene, not very empowering; also I didn't think Adams had any chemistry with Cavill whatsoever

 

[Father]

I'd be really happy with something along these lines:

View attachment 261762
(Meagan Marie is the Cosplayer, giving credit where credit is definitely due).

I think what always turned me off was how spangley her outfit is. Lose the stars and red, white and blue color scheme and stick more with the Amazonian/Greek warrioress. I get that her pre-crisis origin was centered around WWII and fighting the Axis. Either way, as an emissary I don't see why she decks herself out as an American icon. That would be like a Russian ambassador wearing red white and blue while working in the US.

-Lois Lane in MoS was AWFUL - they put her in scenes just so she can be saved, even when she had no business being in that scene, not very empowering; also I didn't think Adams had any chemistry with Cavill whatsoever

Aww come on. I don't think she was that bad. Could they have done better? Maybe. I prefer the "would you rather..." route. Would you rather Teri Hatcher? Whats'er face from Superman Returns? She was meh. Stacy Haiduk, Erica Durance? I don't think they've ever nailed it with Lois. So I think Amy Adams pulled it off as well as anyone in the past.

I still think Margot Kidder was a hag and brought nothing to the table though, so what do I know.

 

[JD]

I think what always turned me off was how spangley her outfit is. Lose the stars and red, white and blue color scheme and stick more with the Amazonian/Greek warrioress. I get that her pre-crisis origin was centered around WWII and fighting the Axis. Either way, as an emissary I don't see why she decks herself out as an American icon. That would be like a Russian ambassador wearing red white and blue while working in the US.

#1. The United States doesn't own the the colors red, white and blue. They do own the copyright and trademarks to stars, though - no other country can use stars on their flags and the sky is pitch black (starless) at night in countries outside of US allies. (Similarly, Canada has rights to the moon).

#2. WW origin (as I recall it from the '80s?) was that Diana Trevor a US test pilot crash landed on Themyscira (sp?); can't recall if she died in the crash or fighting (the Amazons were battling some demon types). Not much was left of her uniform - but the stars and stripes survived and the Amazons crafted a warriors outfit for her with that scheme in mind for her funeral. When it came for Diana (WW) to go to the US, it seemed appropriate to wear that uniform.

...so there is an explanation for the costume. Is it a good one? I'm not sure - but, it works good enough for me.

 

[firesprite]

"In early 1942, during World War II, American pilot Major Steve Trevor (Lyle Waggoner) bails out during an air battle over the Bermuda Triangle, location of Paradise Island. The island is home to the Amazons: beautiful, ageless women with great strength, agility, and intelligence. Amazon princess Diana (Lynda Carter) rescues the handsome Trevor and helps nurse him back to health. Her mother, the Amazon queen (Cloris Leachman; succeeded by Carolyn Jones and Beatrice Straight in later episodes), decrees that Olympic-style games shall be held to select one Amazon to return Trevor back to America, but she forbids her daughter Diana, the princess, to participate. Diana states that since she is not allowed to participate, she does not want to be present for the games and will take a retreat to the other side of the island. The games are held with participants wearing masks and numbers (shown as Roman numerals in triangles on white sleeveless short tunic-dresses). Among the contestants is a blonde Amazon. During the events, the blonde Amazon shows exceptional skills and she ties for first with another Amazon. To break the deadlock, the "bullets and bracelets" event is decided as the tiebreaker, wherein each of the women takes turns shooting at the other; the one being shot at must deflect the bullets with her bulletproof bracelets. The blond woman wins the event, superficially injuring her opponent's arm. When she is pronounced the winner, she removes her mask and wig and reveals that she is Diana. Her mother, though initially shocked, relents and allows her to go to America."

Wonder Woman (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JD]

Wonder Woman was rebooted in 1987. Writer Greg Potter, who previously created the Jemm, Son of Saturn series for DC, was hired to rework the character. He spent several months behind the scenes working with editor Janice Race on new concepts, before being joined by writer/artist George Pérez. Potter dropped out of writing the series after issue #2, and Pérez became the sole plotter, sometimes writing the finished scripts himself and sometimes being assisted by scripters such as Len Wein and Mindy Newell. Pérez produced 62 issues of the rebooted title.

Pérez and Potter wrote Wonder Woman as a feminist character, and Pérez's research into Greek mythology provided Wonder Woman's world with depth and verisimilitude missing from her previous incarnation. The incorporation of Greek gods and sharply characterized villains added a richness to Wonder Woman's Amazon heritage and set her apart from other DC heroes.

Wonder Woman was now a princess and emissary from Paradise Island (called Themyscira) to Patriarch's world. She possessed stunning beauty and a loving heart, gifts from the goddess Aphrodite. From Athena, she received the gift of great wisdom; from Demeter, the power and strength of the earth; from Hestia, sisterhood with fire; and from Artemis, unity with beasts and the instincts and prowess of a hunter. Finally, Diana received the gift of speed and the power of flight from the god Hermes.

The American theme of Diana's costume was explained by Pérez in the Challenge of the Gods storyline in which Diana engaged in a series of trials arranged by Zeus as punishment for refusing his advances. Diana met the spirit of Steve Trevor's mother, Diana Trevor, who was clad in armor identical to her own. Trevor revealed that during World War II she had crashed on Themyscira while on duty as a US Army pilot. She blundered into an Amazon battle against Cottus, a multi-armed demon, at the portal to the underworld. Trevor was drawn into the battle, although she was armed only with her side arm. She wounded the beast before suffering a mortal blow, allowing the Amazons to reseal the portal.

The Amazons, impressed by this unknown woman's self-sacrifice, entombed her with honors and clothed her in armor displaying the American flag pattern on her uniform (which they assumed were her heraldic colors). Consequently, Princess Diana's costume honors Diana Trevor and, by clothing her in its own heraldry, was intended to ease the heroine's acceptance in Man's world. Trevor's legacy was also the primary reason why Ares arranged for Steve Trevor to bomb the island, as he could not resist the irony of the heroine's son unwittingly killing her admirers.

Fictional history of Wonder Woman - Wonder Woman Wiki

 

[LittleFish27]

The best thing about Wonder Woman was when Lucy Lawless voiced her in the animated "Justice League: New Frontier." XD Legit.

 

[Jet Beetle]

I could really go for a design like this --

 

[jcoffman99]

All this WW talk makes me really upset we'll never get to see the Winnie Cooper/Wonder Woman costume.

 

[Father]

#1. The United States doesn't own the the colors red, white and blue. They do own the copyright and trademarks to stars, though - no other country can use stars on their flags and the sky is pitch black (starless) at night in countries outside of US allies. (Similarly, Canada has rights to the moon).

#2. WW origin (as I recall it from the '80s?) was that Diana Trevor a US test pilot crash landed on Themyscira (sp?); can't recall if she died in the crash or fighting (the Amazons were battling some demon types). Not much was left of her uniform - but the stars and stripes survived and the Amazons crafted a warriors outfit for her with that scheme in mind for her funeral. When it came for Diana (WW) to go to the US, it seemed appropriate to wear that uniform.

...so there is an explanation for the costume. Is it a good one? I'm not sure - but, it works good enough for me.

#1... You lost me. I'm guessing that it's some form of sarcasm?
I think the costume was written that way as a reflection of the period and political climate it was written in. It's just continued as a matter of tradition because fans can't accept change. Got forbid you even remove the underwear on the outside of the tights... people lose their freakin minds.

#2... I think that was the Earth 2 origin, not the DC Prime WW.

 

[JD]

It's not a matter of tradition - it's iconic imagery. Superman's shorts, the 'S,' are all a part of the character. Wonder Woman's origin was changed in the '80s to account for her color scheme. Change for change sake or to appease certain groups is not always a good thing; sometimes you need to let the icon win over the current trend.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

With her casting announced and the announcement that the Flash may be in the film as well, I can only assume or hope they are only in this film very briefly and not as their hero side, until an end credit scene to give non-fanboys that "Ohhhh, that's who they are." type moment. Any more then that in this film, call it the Justice League and be done with it. Also, anymore then that and DC is rushing the characters just for the sake of money and trying to catch Marvel. I pray this is not the case. Keep this, for the most part, a World's Finest type film and hint/introduce the other two simply to lead into their stand alones BEFORE a JL.

As for Metallo, I'm good with that. Everyone seems to want Doomsday or Darkseid. It's too early. Metallo is an unseen character on the big screen, can put up a fight to Superman, have Lex as the background villain, and lay out a roadway for JL and other stand alones. Save Doomsday for the 3rd MOS film, after the JL has been done. Do the shock and aww story that has never really been done. Kill Superman using Doomsday, then JL-2 can have the JL trying to deal with Doomsday on their own while trying to bring back Supes for the first 1/3 of the film. Then finish off the film with Darkseid being in there somewhere. Just my rant or own movie layout in my head. Superman and other heroes never dye on the big screen. Would be one way to do it and have the death and return.

 

[Mektar]

As for Metallo, I'm good with that. Everyone seems to want Doomsday or Darkseid. It's too early. Metallo is an unseen character on the big screen, can put up a fight to Superman, have Lex as the background villain, and lay out a roadway for JL and other stand alones. Save Doomsday for the 3rd MOS film, after the JL has been done. Do the shock and aww story that has never really been done. Kill Superman using Doomsday, then JL-2 can have the JL trying to deal with Doomsday on their own while trying to bring back Supes for the first 1/3 of the film. Then finish off the film with Darkseid being in there somewhere. Just my rant or own movie layout in my head. Superman and other heroes never dye on the big screen. Would be one way to do it and have the death and return.

While those are 3 of the 4 villains i would like to have introduced (Brainiac aswell for me) i cant help but think Doomsday would be far better suited for a movie with multiple villains. Afterall Doomsday is just a mindless killing machine while metallo could have more of an interesting story on his own even tho he could also be used as a creation of Lex. But an entire movie around doomsday vs superman would prob be stretching it. Whatever they do tho, Darkseid has to be the final villain with a grand scale invasion, requiring the JL to stop him.