brightestknight
New Member
This is awesome! Great job
ANH Darth Ugly: A Total Transformation of an Inferior Vader Mask
- Thread starter CSMacLaren
- Start date
CSMacLaren
Sr Member
Thanks, guys! Happy 13178 recently encountered an eBay user called vader-revealed who turns out to be JediJeffrey. He was trying to sell an ANH helmet that upon cursory review, it's basically an Armormask "ugly". Although the interior appears to be fiberglass, I wonder if it was applied aftermarket because the casting flaws, surface air bubbles, etc. are very much like the polyurethane material I had to deal with, right down to the uneven thickness. Moreover, the dome's warpage and window's peak's shape is dead on with an Armormask "ugly".
But the biggest eyebrow-raiser for me were the words "Sorry I don't know who made it" in big blue letters. Why would someone fight so hard across the RPF and The Prop Den to convince everyone he was the owner/father of this sculpt, to now disown it on eBay?
The admins have since unlocked the "still ugly" thread on The Prop Den but JediJeffrey still roams there, whereas Art Andrews here on RPF outright banned him. Kudos to Art for protecting prop makers!
But the biggest eyebrow-raiser for me were the words "Sorry I don't know who made it" in big blue letters. Why would someone fight so hard across the RPF and The Prop Den to convince everyone he was the owner/father of this sculpt, to now disown it on eBay?
The admins have since unlocked the "still ugly" thread on The Prop Den but JediJeffrey still roams there, whereas Art Andrews here on RPF outright banned him. Kudos to Art for protecting prop makers!
Here's another kinda funny idea - if I use a foam head for the base of a clay sculpture, can the foam head manufacturer come at me with accusations that I stole their product? IMHO, the darth ugly is a complete resculpt. It probably would have been easier for CS to start from scratch, but he was making a point (in a middle finger sort of way) to the recasters and inferior product makers. Don't wanna bring up old kabuki, especially since JJ has conceded, but some some thoughts... Correct me if I am wrong.
CSMacLaren
Sr Member
In the special effects industry, no. Foam busts are considered armatures and there are companies that make foam busts specifically for people to sculpt on and make their own product. If you do a direct copy for the sake of selling foam armatures, they may have an issue.
The point of armatures is to not use a solid hunk of clay because that can get heavy and expensive. Some methods of building armatures include chicken wire and plaster. Or just chicken wire. Once it's sturdy enough to take clay, you add clay to the mesh. Hopefully it can hold up the weight of clay. But the preferred method is to sculpt on a foam bust or plaster casting. Brian Muir sculpted the Vader mask and armor over a casting of Dave Prowse:
Anyway that would be the ultimate armature from a fanboy perspective.
The point of armatures is to not use a solid hunk of clay because that can get heavy and expensive. Some methods of building armatures include chicken wire and plaster. Or just chicken wire. Once it's sturdy enough to take clay, you add clay to the mesh. Hopefully it can hold up the weight of clay. But the preferred method is to sculpt on a foam bust or plaster casting. Brian Muir sculpted the Vader mask and armor over a casting of Dave Prowse:
Anyway that would be the ultimate armature from a fanboy perspective.
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it was more of a philosophical question of recasting versus sculpting. I feel that what you did is essentially a new sculpt. Its like JJ was a canvas maker trying to lay claim to a painters art. Make sense? I don't think I was very clear the first time.
CSMacLaren
Sr Member
In this case, the canvas itself had to be rebuilt!
Gatekeeper
Sr Member
A bit of necroposting, granted, but I'm so pleased with my ANH Ugly so I had to find a proper place to praise it's maker... this helmet is badass. Period. It perfectly communicates the essence of the ANH look.
Did my first troop in my Ugly last weekend, and it's a pleasure to wear... and pose in. Example (never mind the drooping chest armor):
Thanks, Mac! You did well rebuilding that canvas...
Did my first troop in my Ugly last weekend, and it's a pleasure to wear... and pose in. Example (never mind the drooping chest armor):
Thanks, Mac! You did well rebuilding that canvas...
CSMacLaren
Sr Member
Wow, what a treat! This post really made my day. I'm seldom stunned and humbled at the same time.
Your costume looks really good. I was originally concerned if a budget helmet like Ugly would live up to the quality of the parts and costume you were putting together, as I saw your build on the 501st forums. I've spent a lot of time fussing with lighting Vader properly for photography, and that Lucasfilm shot looks like an outdoor setting where you have no control over the lighting whatsoever and Ugly looks better than it ever did in my living room.
Bookface also deserves a great deal of credit as my quick-n'-dirty acrylics don't compare to his properly brushed and sprayed automotive paints. I love how the lenses also turned out there. Sometimes I encounter a frontal-flash photo of a fully painted Ugly helmet and perhaps it's a trick of the light, but I've actually mistaken it for an SPFX. So imagine the adjustment I have to make when I misinterpret some photos as people dumping their Uglies for an SPFX when it turns out they were Darth Uglies all along!
Thanks again! I'm glad you enjoy the helmet! I'd be grateful to see more outdoor shots to see how Ugly holds up under natural exterior lighting.
Gatekeeper
Sr Member
Credit should be given where credit's due. My apologies to Bookface, whom I intended to include in the former post, but somehow managed to forget... sorry! And yes, the paint job is equally brilliant with the right sheen and weathering... the low key yet distinctive paint job is part of what makes it look good in indirect lighting conditions. Also, I was lucky enough to find an automotive paint that is very close to Bookface's gun metal grey, so armor matches up kinda decently
My costume is still a work in progress (they always are) and there are a few shortcomings I intend to deal with. At least the helmet, the most distinctive part of it, is not and will not be a problem!
CSMacLaren
Sr Member
In trying to highlight bookface's contribution to the project, I didn't intend for you to in any way feel that your post was flawed. I am very appreciative of what you've said.
I recall my conversations with Bookface over the paint work needed for Ugly. Bookface's work was able to bring out the subtleties of the sculpted surfaces of Vader. It's one thing working on the master sculpt, but once I ship it out, it's in the hands of another, and it's been a very rewarding thing to see that Bookface cares about the presentation as much as - or even more than - I do. He hasn't let me down.
One topic we discussed a while back was that the standard 501st paint scheme requirements specify a kind of flat black for the dome, and this is something I've disagreed with for years, but the community outvoted me. We all study the same screenshots, so we all do our best to interpret the still images correctly. Nowadays, we can watch the Blu-ray and step through the motion frame by frame - and doing so often reveals things we had never noticed before, like how the light plays off a surface and how that changes a fraction of a second later with the slightest turn of the head.
It's great that your dome shows a reflection of whatever it is that's overhead. I wanted just a very subtle degree of wetness so that the reflection was similar to what you saw when Vader walked down the Death Star hallway's lighting.
Just curious, why was Mr. Saares photographing this for Lucasfilm? Is it for Star Wars Insider or some other purpose?
I'd be delighted to see more shots of your costume when you feel it's finally finished. Thanks!
I recall my conversations with Bookface over the paint work needed for Ugly. Bookface's work was able to bring out the subtleties of the sculpted surfaces of Vader. It's one thing working on the master sculpt, but once I ship it out, it's in the hands of another, and it's been a very rewarding thing to see that Bookface cares about the presentation as much as - or even more than - I do. He hasn't let me down.
One topic we discussed a while back was that the standard 501st paint scheme requirements specify a kind of flat black for the dome, and this is something I've disagreed with for years, but the community outvoted me. We all study the same screenshots, so we all do our best to interpret the still images correctly. Nowadays, we can watch the Blu-ray and step through the motion frame by frame - and doing so often reveals things we had never noticed before, like how the light plays off a surface and how that changes a fraction of a second later with the slightest turn of the head.
It's great that your dome shows a reflection of whatever it is that's overhead. I wanted just a very subtle degree of wetness so that the reflection was similar to what you saw when Vader walked down the Death Star hallway's lighting.
Just curious, why was Mr. Saares photographing this for Lucasfilm? Is it for Star Wars Insider or some other purpose?
I'd be delighted to see more shots of your costume when you feel it's finally finished. Thanks!
Gatekeeper
Sr Member
Yes, I'm right there with you re: the perceived "matt black helmet" discussion. Only scenes where the dome appears flat is aboard the Tantive IV. When Vader's seen on the Death Star, the dome reflections do not differ a lot from ESB to my eye at least. Which is why the dome sheen pleasantly surprised me in the convention centre, under a bright fluorescent lighting.
You know, I just spotted the copyright thing in Johnnie's pic. I believe it's just a disclaimer kind of thing, but I'll check if the picture is to be used for any other than 501st purposes.
I'll be happy to provide more pics as well!
You know, I just spotted the copyright thing in Johnnie's pic. I believe it's just a disclaimer kind of thing, but I'll check if the picture is to be used for any other than 501st purposes.
I'll be happy to provide more pics as well!
DoctorEight
Active Member
I wouldn't call this a transformation, or give Sid the luxury of credit. You've put in more effort in rebuilding and correcting it than he ever put into making or misrepresenting it. This is more your sculpt now, than his. (More Machine now, than man!). He should only get credit for inspiring you by necessity due to such a horrible sculpt. And for being a ripoff artist.
I'd also like to interject that Ugly was not only Ugly but also left me with that "oh, that's just wrong" feeling when I looked it it. You took that slag and not only made it into one of our favorite icons in movie history, but to me he has an almost predatory and more aggressive look. I can't put my finger on it, but it is there. I love it. It gives Your "Ugly" Vader an edge that so many sculpts sadly lack - Kudos man. Major kudos
That's an interesting question Kroenen. I think for the most part, if you can look at a picture of the original, and then at a picture of the reworked piece and you're left thinking "That doesn't even look like the same piece", then you can consider it your own work, and it is not a recast.
