Particularly since there seems to be two entirely different debates going on at the same time.ptgreek said:ha ..this debate can go round and round ..
Yes, I've noticed this many times. In the original Star trek series, even as a kid I noticed that "Romulan" helmets would usually be recycled as "Vulcan" ceremonial masks or some such. Of course, TV shows back then had an FX budget of, what, twenty bucks a show?ptgreek said:What FX studios WILL do is reuse their molds for other shows.. It happens often actually.. Re-run, augment.. Paint differently. The new "Thing" for example.. Watch the autopsy scene and you will see Starship Trooper bug parts.
Maybe not for you rich Hollywood shops (tee hee hee), but I can see some circumstances in which we poor fan film makers would need to. An example I posited before---suppose I have a scene in a fan film where a Jedi dies in a volcanic pit, and I have a sequence showing his lightsaber melting. I have a big fancy lightsaber prop that I spent oodles of money on as a hero prop (I don't in reality--all my lightsaber props are homemade and cost less than 15 bucks each, but I am speaking hypothetically here). So I cast my expensive lightsaber prop in wax and melt it for my scene (again, my casting skills are rudimentary at best, so again I am talking hypothetically here). Here's one of those "grey areas" that Savage was talking about. I'm not making a counterfeit cast to sell--indeed, not only does no money change hands anywhere, but at the end of the process there's not even any new prop remaining. Is that "re-casting"? Is that the same, in the moral sense, as my casting resin copies of the lightsaber prop to sell on eBay? Why or why not? Where would you draw that moral line, and why there and not somewhere else?ptgreek said:Remember silicone is on the more costly side of product.. Labor will cost a shop.. Recasting a found piece never really is a cost effective way to go
As an aside, THIS is precisely the reason why I really gave up attempting to develop skill at casting. While I did learn the basics of the process (though it took me at least 15 tries to get a good cast of my "smart shuriken"), what I realized in the end was that casting really is only useful if you need a large number of copies of something--and I didn't; everything I do is also a one-off. So the only molds I ended up keeping were those for things like Pred teeth, that I sometimes need for new masks, or Klingon toe claws, which I sometimes break off and need to replace. Nothing else I made is worth making a mold, because I don't need more than one of it.ptgreek said:However most of what we do are "one offs" for a specific production.
ptgreek said:see ..i understand what you are saying..but as your example of the lightsaber prop ..we would have created it ..made a mold ..then used multiple casting elements to make a hero, stunt and FX rig
ptgreek said:I see what you are getting at Lflank ..in your case, it falls into that grey area. if you are cool with it then no problem ..just know that some may not be.
ptgreek said:however this is how sometimes that spark begins..that realization that you can dump silicone on anything. It can be tempting ..and you may come up with more and more reasons to justify your actions ...even getting people to side with you. That is why my initial post was "just dont do it" ...over the years ive seen just this happen .Ive seen decent artists feel the need to make more money ..ive seen them feel the need to compete with another member and ultimately ive seen them all banned..its just how it always seems to go
I think this is one thing that makes me a bit different from almost everyone else here---I don't have a "collection" per se. Although I have two rooms full of props and costumes, they are all meant for use in fan films. That's why virtually everything I have is homemade, and made myself. The only two "collectables" I have are a stunt Morita rifle from Starship Troopers and a stunt Roman shield from Gladiator. I got both of them as displays just because they were from two of my favorite movies--but I've already also used the rifle in a fan film, and just finished making a set of Roman armor to use with the shield in a probable future fan film. I also have a set of Rubies Supreme stormtrooper armor --it's the only costume I have that I bought instead of making. It's too thick and heavy and doesn't fit me very well, and the only reason I still have it is because I don't have the space to make a vacuum former and produce armor of my own. Sooner or later I will, and then I'll unload the Rubies on someone.Guan-thwei said:Another point that I was making that George hit the nail on the head every single crack and dent on that stunt bio is even though it was a mistake I appreciate the art and the history that comes with it is something very precious. I mean the P1 stunt obviously is the Mona Lisa of my collection I would never want a recast of that.
Guan-thwei said:I have to respect the artist's decision and most of the time it is not really up to him it is up to the studios who own the rights to that project.
Guan-thwei said:They don't want to be at risk of something being privately owned that never was supposed to be in the first place unless you got it off of an auction house like profiles in history in that consideration everyone wins.
Lflank said:Someone please correct me if I am mistaken, but as I understand it that was the issue when the guy who designed the original stormtrooper armor began selling copies of it and was sued by Lucasfilm---he argued that he designed it so it was his to sell, while Lucasfilm argued that they had contracted for it so they owned the rights to it.
Its called intellectual rights and needs to be covered in the initial contract between either the prop maker or the Efx house and production. We make sure that we own everything that goes into the movies we do. At times ,for merchandising reasons, the studio will own all likeness rights. Im sure this was probably covered by Lucas. However ..in respect for the filmmaker and your repeat client, you would never want to cross boundaries. Many times props are given as gifts to the director or member of production ..if not a duplicate is made ... That being said ..most houses just bring the props, suits, etc back from the shoot ...many of them later get sold to auction houses such as Prop Store. Ha ..there is a funny story about The minotaurs from The Lion Witch and the Wardrobe. Disney claimed the skins as likeness from KNB.. KNB had already started to sell them to Prop Store ..Disney said they only could sell the under structure and animatronics . KNB said they would have to then charge Disney for storage ..in the end ..it just went away