AA case begins

Onigiri said:
Because most in this hobby have the common sense not to thumb our noses at a C n D from LFL. Its not like Lucas didnt give AA a chance to back off. AA didnt heed the warning and in point of fact offered NEW infringing items AFTER the initial C n D. Hard to feel any sense of pity for someone that misguided and arrogant. He (AA) is EXACTLY in the situation that he himself PUT himself in. He has shown a pattern of behavior of dishonesty and misrepresenation aside form the obvious IP theft and didnt have the simple common sense to back off....oh no...he stepped it UP and even has the temerity to countersue. Nope...I think he is going to get exactly what he deserves.
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Well that's the crux of it isn't it, It's his belief he isn't guilty of IP theft and he has the rights to the design which sets this situation apart from previous C&D's issued against other people who knew they had no rights.
I have little doubt he truly does believe he owns the design or he would have shut up shop when told to, the fact he stopped using the imperial logo seems to back up that theory.
He certainly isn't the only person guilty of dishonesty or misrepresentation either it's rife in the replica game even from those companies that are licenced and nobody really cries foul at others.
As far as countersuing well that's standard and sensible behaviour from a legal standpoint.
I'm no fan of the bloke but i just don't see what all the hatred is about, he's guilty of nothing more than any number of other people in this game who recieve very little venom or are even revered apart from actually taking on a fight with a studio in court.
 
defstartrooper said:
Probably true i just find it strange how one individual deserves financial ruin for ripping off studios stuff when that's what 99% of the people in the prop/costume replica game do.
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Sorry I disagree he deserves what he has coming, AA claimed ownership rights to the designs, took ads out in popular magazine(s), has had full fledged booths at several conventions, has done interviews and taken ads promoting his product on several well known sites, ignored C&D letters and even ignored US courts when found liable...

Adding it up he wasn't your typical bootlegger that supplies this community at the murmur level, and was smart enough to bow out when the license owner slapped him on the wrist giving an out...

AA has been given PLENTY of opportunity to bow out and avoid financial ruin, he wasn't the sorry singled out individual you might like to pretend he is, he brought this upon himself over the period of several years...

AA didn't use the imperial logo on his stands he did however use them on the TIE and Gunner helmets but later removed them i suspect due to a C+D issued by LFL he'll most likely plead ignorance of the logo being a registered design and point out he removed them when he found out it was, not a big issue certainly not a $20m one.
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He removed them well after he was found liable by the US courts, and assessed damages for it's use... He did use things like ANH on his stands, you might argue that isn't owned by LFL and you are right, but it does play into a deceptive and misleading business practice to capitalize on LFL ownerships... Ignorance isn't a defense, and AA isn't exactly out of the loop, he knows full well about IP rights he has worked on several films and does after all still own a successful paddle company, with the 'Ainsworth' branding... As for it not being a big issue, the Trademark issue is in fact a multi million dollar part of the US judgment, the UK courts will most likely knock it down as they assess damages differently but, it's still going to put the average guy in the poor house... The US case also assessed damages 2 years ago, the UK courts have almost 2 more years of continuing infringements to add to this...
 
I dont hate him. I dont KNOW him. I dont hate the people I see on COPS...or on Judge Judy...or on the news cuz I dont know them EITHER but I DO hope they get whats coming to them. Hell, I didnt even hate the folks who tried to blow me up in Iraq...they arent around anymore to back me up on that statement, however. I hate pimps and rapists and child molestors and men who beat women or victimize children or abuse animals. I save my special venom for them. AA is simply an idiot who is going to get what he deserves.

defstartrooper said:
I didn't say that i agree, i have my opinion but that's not relevent, the statement was about the hatred he recieves from people citing IP theft as a reason.
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He removed them well after he was found liable by the US courts, and assessed damages for it's use... He did use things like ANH on his stands, you might argue that isn't owned by LFL and you are right, but it does play into a deceptive and misleading business practice to capitalize on LFL ownerships... Ignorance isn't a defense, and AA isn't exactly out of the loop, he knows full well about IP rights he has worked on several films and does after all still own a successful paddle company, with the 'Ainsworth' branding... As for it not being a big issue, the Trademark issue is in fact a multi million dollar part of the US judgment, the UK courts will most likely knock it down as they assess damages differently but, it's still going to put the average guy in the poor house... The US case also assessed damages 2 years ago, the UK courts have almost 2 more years of continuing infringements to add to this...
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I believe he removed the logo from the TIE and Gunner helmet shortly after the US hearing and besides the US hearing he did not acknowledge i believe he removed them after learning the logo was a registered design.
I'm not sure the logo is a TM i think may just be copyright.
There may well be damages awarded for using it but it won't be anywhere near $20m.
 
AnsonJames said:
AA has absolutely no belief in owning the IP rights - if that were the case he would have taken LFL to court years ago.
.
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Absolutely I agree, He would have made more money from Royalties alone.. ;)

defstartrooper said:
I think those are the battlespec moulds it's known he had new moulds made for that helmet his er " budget " line.

As for the US case it's the same argument they will use in the UK but will the court agree that the final design is similar enough to the McQuarrie art to find him guilty of IP theft ?
I don't know what the criteria will be but there's not one part of the costume the same on the art as on the actual costumes, i think that part of their case is weak.
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AA's final product is close enough to the original Artwork to be considered
a derivative work which is clearly without permission Copyright Infringement/IP Theft.. As for it being week,
I'm not so sure about that, but I think that't why they brought many more issues to the table..

Yes, Uncle george not being happy about the molds has nothing to do with the Copyright case, but
then again I never said that it was ;) it's just one more argument for the
Attorneys to bring to the table to try and discredit AA, by proving he's a liar..
 
So as I understand it the case ends tomorrow? Now, is this typical that there is an actual "end date" to a case (UK or US)? I thought a case went on basically until both sides said all they had to say and "rests"?

Sorry, just trying to understand a bit more about the legal systems!
 
Lord Abaddon said:
Sorry, just trying to understand a bit more about the legal systems!
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The legal system in London works like this I would expect if found guilty AA will be taken by barge to the Tower of London through Traitor's gate and then his head displayed on the end of a pike on London bridge just like in the good old days :angel

I would think if there is any extra testimony or evidence that would influence the case that is relevant to either side it may run over past Tuesday but if everything has been presented and both sides have shown all they can then it should finish on time.

Either way it shouldn't be too long for a result.

Does anybody on the forum believe AA will win?

Possibly a trip to William Hill or Paddy Power tonight wouldn't be a bad move if you do :)

Chris
 
Considering that the stormtrooper head design is based on a 1960's battery operated robot toy (as is the face detail of See-Threepio), Lucasfilm doesn't really have any sort of moral high-ground. George's people need to "vet" their design work a little better. Back in 1976, eveybody was stealing from everybody and that's just how a lot of the "underground" sci-fi was art generated. But then again NOW they do. Every design generated within the walls of the Ranch belongs solely to George. Lucasfilm "buys" your talent from you while you're in their employ.

-Gordon
 
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AA's final product is close enough to the original Artwork to be considered
a derivative work which is clearly without permission Copyright Infringement/IP Theft.. As for it being week,
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Do you think it is really ? i'm not so sure i don't think it's clearcut at all the final suit is clearly not a simple 3D rendition of the 2D artwork.
Keep in mind that using McQuarries art as a guideline or inspiration does not make him guilty of IP theft it just means he used the art to develop his own design and he obviously did have permission at that time to create that design.
I honestly think from what we do currently know about and has been reported that if anything causes him to lose it will be the sculpting work Brian Muir did on the armour, as i say though that depends on exactly what Brian did and what evidence there is surrounding it.
Of course LFL could have a whole load of other stuff up there sleeves as could AA that none of us know about.
 
defstartrooper said:
Do you think it is really ? i'm not so sure i don't think it's clearcut at all the final suit is clearly not a simple 3D rendition of the 2D artwork.
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And I think it's safe to say that AA didn't have a suit of white plastic armor hanging on the wall of his shop that just happened to so similar and fit the bill... That said where did he get the idea? There are a number of defined details that are pretty damn similar, if you can honestly say you don't believe that the 3D trooper armor is not a derivative work of the sketches you are only fooling yourself... The only question that would arise is are the differences enough to grant a new ownership of copyright, but AA is claiming design right not copyright from the news article(s)... Design rights expire in 10 or 15 years, so any design rights are expired... This leaves the only existing IP rights still in force today, to LFL and their copyrights... And copyright rights still take precedence over design right...

So as I understand it the case ends tomorrow? Now, is this typical that there is an actual "end date" to a case (UK or US)? I thought a case went on basically until both sides said all they had to say and "rests"?
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Like any case you can only talk so long, both sides would have presented witness list and the sorts in pre-trial... So just like US cases you can get a good feel for the time required to complete a trial... I'm sure the Judge won't allow the argument to repeat and drag out unless new relevant information is being brought forward... I highly doubt there is that much information that is really relevant besides witness testimony and photos/sketches and there is only so much of that...
 
spcglider@aol.com said:
Considering that the stormtrooper head design is based on a 1960's battery operated robot toy (as is the face detail of See-Threepio), Lucasfilm doesn't really have any sort of moral high-ground. George's people need to "vet" their design work a little better. Back in 1976, eveybody was stealing from everybody and that's just how a lot of the "underground" sci-fi was art generated. But then again NOW they do. Every design generated within the walls of the Ranch belongs solely to George. Lucasfilm "buys" your talent from you while you're in their employ.

-Gordon
Click to expand...

I have better pictures of those stormtrooper robots in one of my son's books. I just assumed those were created after Star Wars. Are they pre-Star Wars!!??
 
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