what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader quit

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

These are all very reasonable in-universe speculations in an EU sort of way. But the fact remains that if the filmmakers wanted us to think there was a diversionary fleet, they would've had a character say there was one.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Treadwell said:
These are all very reasonable in-universe speculations in an EU sort of way. But the fact remains that if the filmmakers wanted us to think there was a diversionary fleet, they would've had a character say there was one.
Click to expand...

I guess that's where the difference is coming from, there WAS a character that said there was one, Vader himself. That's how I interpreted it back when I first saw the film anyway. All depends on how you read it. Why would Vader be concerned if the fleet was massing where they were ready for them?

I can see the alternate view of it now but honestly I never thought of it that way. The point of surprise was that the Imperials were expecting them, if they didn't have a diversionary force and they were amassing a fleet it would make perfect sense that the Imperials would be ready for it.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

The imperials were expecting them. They supplied the plans to the rebels. They knew of the fleet around sullist. And they new about the crew on endor.

Given that the entire thibg was a setup, It makes sense that there was only one fleet.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Michael Bergeron said:
I guess that's where the difference is coming from, there WAS a character that said there was one, Vader himself. That's how I interpreted it back when I first saw the film anyway. All depends on how you read it.
Click to expand...

? There's a fleet massing. Isn't that enough to be worth mentioning? You can feel ready for them and still think it's a worthwhile topic to raise with the boss.

"What of the reports of another Rebel fleet massing, apart from the one we already we're already aware of but don't care about?"
Is that really what people think is being said?

They build the DS, and have it operational and a fleet ready for any POTENTIAL attack. Then, they find out about Sullust, and Palpy is like "yeah, that's fine, that's why we made sure we were prepared."

This is not the kind of movie that expects mental gymnastics to pick up on subtle unstated cues. If they wanted us to know about a diversion, they would've said there was a diversion.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

As I recall, it wasn't Vader who was in on the big switcheroo. It was just the Emperor. He wasn't concerned about the rumors of the fleet at Sullust, and told Vader that Luke would come to him. Arguably, this is all because he's set it up so that it will go down that way, but hasn't let Vader or anyone else in on the full plan. The sense I got was that he's the only one who knows all the relevant pieces of information, and he keeps it that way to maintain control. He doesn't tell Vader everything, just enough for him to do his job right.

This would explain why Vader brings it up, but the Emperor appears unperturbed. I don't see it as a diversionary fleet, either. I think the Rebels basically got everything together, Imperial intelligence knew about it, and then the Rebels attacked the Death Star. I mean, knowing there's a huge fleet doesn't mean that you can assume the fleet knows (A) where the enemy's secret superweapon (Mk. II) is being built, nor (B) that the Emperor and Vader are there.

Knowing that someone's massing a fleet somewhere doesn't tell you where they're gonna send it, ya know?
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
Except the last thing I'd want to do, if I didn't want the enemy to realize I knew where their superweapon was being built, was amass my fleet just round the corner. Look at the preparations for Operation: Overlord. They had the Germans convinced the attack would come at Calais, while they were actually gearing up to attack from a completely different source, and land at the place they least expected. I'd mass the fleet somewhere optimal for a strike on Corellia or Fondor or Commenor or Imperial Center itself, to not let on I knew where the Death Star was being built.
Click to expand...

The reason for that was misdirection, false papers on a dead officer whose body the Germans were allowed to recover, and the fact that Hitler was a complete idiot and thought himself far smarter than he really was. Even though the Germans were expecting the invasion to be at Calais the beaches along Normandy were still very well defended and Hitler, until late in the invasion, was convinced that the invasion of Normandy was a feint and the main invasion would still come at Calais it was still a near thing and could easily have gone the other if Hitler had actually listened to Rommel and others along with not being down for a nap at the time the invasion began with instructions to be disturbed no matter what.

This is probably what the Rebels had hoped for an expected with the intel that they were gathering near Sullust whether they actually were or not. The idea was obviously providing Imperial Intelligence with false intelligence so that the fleet that they found at Endor would actually be at Sullust either engaging a second fleet or sitting there waiting for one to show up, either way keeping them away from Endor long enough for them to take down the Death Star with little to no opposition.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Dan beat me to the punch. Whether Vader was concerned the fleet he mentioned might be coming there (unlikely) or that it might strike somewhere important while they were cooling their heels on the Death Star (how I always interpreted it -- the rest of his early arc is impatience and wanting to go out there and get stuff done and the Emperor telling him to calm down), I only ever got that there was just one Rebel fleet. The one Leia was talking about was the one Vader was talking about was the only one there was.

--Jonah
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Here's an oddity:

When the Rebs take over the bunker, as Leia says "the fleet will be here any moment" there's an animated graphic on a screen that shows the DS, and a bunch of red blips getting closer and closer to the DS. It's like it's supposed to be the Rebel fleet--which should not be seen because it's still in hyperspace. Sure, it could be the Imperial fleet, but why is it getting closer?

No matter which fleet it's supposed to be, it doesn't make sense.

A silly and confusing graphic that shouldn't have been shown, is what I'm saying. :)
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

While it may be a stretch, perhaps the rebels HAD arrived and we're viewing things out of chronological order.
Cutting between the different points of action can have that effect.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Maybe the Imperial ships moving to the far side of Endor? I tend to think it's Imperial tracking systems monitoring the approach of a large number of ships in hyperspace. Reference "The Rebels are alerted to our presence... Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed to close to the system." Something about the trade-off of surprise versus stealth. The Rebel fleet obviously elected for a close emergence point, to minimize Imperial response time. Guessing the FTL sensor systems can pick up the energy-consumption curve of a ship at ligthspeed more readily than one traveling sublight...

Also, not sure what the Rebel plan was. When the Tyderium was on approach, no one commented on the number of capital ships there. Han was even dismissive of an Executor-class command ship. Were they expecting a guard/picket fleet protecting the Death Star? If so, were they just hoping that the confusion of the shield dropping would let the reactor-assault team get in and out quickly enough that the larger ships wouldn't have to engage the Star Destroyers? I know the Rebels were desperate, but still. Oy.

--Jonah
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

My guess is that the Rebels naturally expected a small picket around the Death Star but not an entire fleet. It's been a while since I've seen Jedi but at the time Han and co. were approaching Endor in their stolen shuttle, could we see an entire Imperial fleet of just the Executor and a few escorts? It's also worth noting that the presence of the Executor did make Han a bit nervous, although it may have been more of a result of Luke's apprehensions.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

"Fly casual". Well, yeah, but fly according to standard procedures. I'm pretty sure passing a SSD bridge so closely that you're in danger of scratching the paint isn't standard procedure!
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

We could see the Executor and two Star Destroyers. This was, incidentally, after the Emperor had ordered the fleet to the far side of Endor (just went back and checked). But one would think the presence of a fleet command ship would indicate the presence of a fleet somewhere nearby. And Luke sensed Vader on the Executor as soon as they started getting close to it, a feeling that becmae stronger the closer they got, which is when he realized his presence gave them away.

--Jonah

- - - Updated - - -

Treadwell said:
"Fly casual". Well, yeah, but fly according to standard procedures. I'm pretty sure passing a SSD bridge so closely that you're in danger of scratching the paint isn't standard procedure!
Click to expand...

"Control, this is Tyderium. Request permission for a fly-by."

--Jonah
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

So the visual evidence sort of supports the idea that the strike force only saw what looked to be a minimal Imperial fleet presence by the Death Star, if a command ship and 2 Star Destroyer escorts could be considered minimal. But then again, would a command ship, with Vader aboard, be all that unexpected for something as important as the Empire's second Death Star? Three ships would give the DS2 both a pretty large amount of firepower as well as flexibility in investigating disturbances and in dealing with them. This would allow the command ship to stay close the to the Death Star and coordinate things with one ship as an escort while it sends the other to conduct patrols and intercepts. I'd actually be a bit concerned if I saw any less, as why would they leave this unfinished space station unguarded and vulnerable to attack, I think that any competent military commander would smell a trap under those circumstances and a much larger fleet would just scare any Rebel fleet or strike force that saw it.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Riceball said:
So the visual evidence sort of supports the idea that the strike force only saw what looked to be a minimal Imperial fleet presence by the Death Star, if a command ship and 2 Star Destroyer escorts could be considered minimal. But then again, would a command ship, with Vader aboard, be all that unexpected for something as important as the Empire's second Death Star? Three ships would give the DS2 both a pretty large amount of firepower as well as flexibility in investigating disturbances and in dealing with them. This would allow the command ship to stay close the to the Death Star and coordinate things with one ship as an escort while it sends the other to conduct patrols and intercepts. I'd actually be a bit concerned if I saw any less, as why would they leave this unfinished space station unguarded and vulnerable to attack, I think that any competent military commander would smell a trap under those circumstances and a much larger fleet would just scare any Rebel fleet or strike force that saw it.
Click to expand...

It's also worth remembering that we really only ever saw two classes of capital ships for the Empire: Star Destroyers and Super Star Destroyers. We know they carry a fighter complement of some undetermined mix, likely including interceptors, fighters, and bombers...but that's it. That's all the ships we saw from the Empire. So, in fairness, we really don't even know how the Imperial fleet organizes its forces. Do they have picket ships of some kind? Light cruisers? Han references "local bulk cruisers" and "big Corellian ships," but we don't see them. We know the big ships are carriers and have a docking bay that can hold an entire Rebel blockade runner/corvette.

All the other ships come from the West End Games materials and other external materials. So, cool though they are (and let's face it: an Interdictor is freakin' cool), in the movies, they don't "exist." With all this in mind, I think it's reasonably fair to say that a large Imperial fleet would just consist of...more Star Destroyers.


Also, seeing a couple of Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer (likely known to be the Executor?) probably wouldn't have fazed the Rebels. It's an important project, and the Imperials have a big fleet. It's to be expected that you'd run into a few of them. I doubt, however, that they were expecting something like six or seven Star Destroyers, plus the Executor, and the swarms of fighters they'd bring.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

There's actually 3 canon classes of Imperial ships, remember that in Rebels we see that light cruiser that carries several TIEs along the bottom of its hull. Of course we never see them in any of the movies so they've either been entirely phased out of service by ANH or they're more of a patrol ship and don't use them for anything but patrolling systems where they're not going to encounter anything more than pirates and smugglers and it would be the biggest thing out there.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Yes but we have to think in terms of what would be in the heads of the filmmakers in 1981-2.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

ROTJ is so loaded with inconsistencies of plot and character I find it difficult to regard anything in that film seriously in SW canon.

Four years after a film like, Alien and its stunning creature effects, we have ROTJ that's loaded with 80's television-grade muppets. It pains me to this day.

I'm sorry again for the digression but I just can't stop kicking sand at this one film.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

dascoyne said:
ROTJ is so loaded with inconsistencies of plot and character I find it difficult to regard anything in that film seriously in SW canon.

Four years after a film like, Alien and its stunning creature effects, we have ROTJ that's loaded with 80's television-grade muppets. It pains me to this day.

I'm sorry again for the digression but I just can't stop kicking sand at this one film.
Click to expand...

But, practical effects! Because, ass we all know, even the worst practical effects are far superior to even the best CG. There's no such thing as bad practical effects, just like there's no such thing as good CG. And if you believe that I have some nice beach front property in lovely 29 Palms, CA for sale, cheap.
 
Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

dascoyne said:
ROTJ is so loaded with inconsistencies of plot and character I find it difficult to regard anything in that film seriously in SW canon.

Four years after a film like, Alien and its stunning creature effects, we have ROTJ that's loaded with 80's television-grade muppets. It pains me to this day.

I'm sorry again for the digression but I just can't stop kicking sand at this one film.
Click to expand...


9YN4Erx.jpg

I'm one of the odd people out whose favorite of all the films is ROTJ. It probably has a lot to do with the times and me being 5 and a half when I saw it that just still hits me as the best. ESB when I was 2, but don't remember the entire experience in theaters in 1980. I also personally loved all the creatures and still believe them all when I see it.
 
This thread is more than 8 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.

Similar threads

Usagi Pilgrim
REBEL MOON PART 2: THE SCARGIVER
Replies
14
Views
662
guabe
guabe
Prop Collector
The ark of the covenant has been found!
2 3
Replies
46
Views
2,619
JediMichael
JediMichael
Captain Dunsel
Pirates of the Caribbean 6?
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
2,819
NakedMoleRat
NakedMoleRat
gusw666
Looking for the exacto location of the the secret life of Walter Mitty Life Magazine cover
Replies
10
Views
719
drusselmeyer
drusselmeyer
bwayne64
The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare
Replies
8
Views
599
Sundowner
Sundowner
Back
Top