Alien: Covenant (Prometheus Sequel)

Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

How appropriate that Lindelof is now the show runner to a series that, surprise surprise, centers around a gigantic mystery that will most likely never be solved.

Did they at least answer the question as to why cave drawings of a stick figure pointing at stars lead to the conclusion that we were created by said stick figures?
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

So he doesn't know either :lol

That's usually the standard for most writers. You introduce a mystery that adds something of interest to the story and hope it will all work for the best, solved or not solved. Sometimes this works (Odo's mystery on Deep Space Nine), sometimes they'll forget about the mystery entirely (Who erased Kamino from the records? Psps) and sometimes they'll completely screw it up (Machines want to kill you in order to stop you from creating machines that will kill you). Where as most writers will try and think ahead on how to solve a mystery ahead of time, Lindelof openly embraces the idea of not having any clue on how to resolve it at all. Not saying that kind of writing style couldn't work, but you need to have some really strong character performances, or something that the audience can care for more than just the mystery. Unfortunately Lindelof just doesn't have the skill to pull that off. The story of Prometheus is poorly executed and the characters are so uninteresting and childish that it's impossible not to see the flaws in a story that openly chooses not to answer any of it's questions. It's as if Lindelof is operating on the assumption that as long as you don't solve the mystery, the audience will always think that the answer will somehow turn out to be something spectacular. Some may see that as clever, I see it as pretentious nonsense.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

That's usually the standard for most writers. You introduce a mystery that adds something of interest to the story and hope it will all work for the best, solved or not solved. Sometimes this works (Odo's mystery on Deep Space Nine), sometimes they'll forget about the mystery entirely (Who erased Kamino from the records? Psps) and sometimes they'll completely screw it up (Machines want to kill you in order to stop you from creating machines that will kill you). Where as most writers will try and think ahead on how to solve a mystery ahead of time, Lindelof openly embraces the idea of not having any clue on how to resolve it at all. Not saying that kind of writing style couldn't work, but you need to have some really strong character performances, or something that the audience can care for more than just the mystery. Unfortunately Lindelof just doesn't have the skill to pull that off. The story of Prometheus is poorly executed and the characters are so uninteresting and childish that it's impossible not to see the flaws in a story that openly chooses not to answer any of it's questions. It's as if Lindelof is operating on the assumption that as long as you don't solve the mystery, the audience will always think that the answer will somehow turn out to be something spectacular. Some may see that as clever, I see it as pretentious nonsense.

I actually agree with almost all of this except that Prometheus is poorly executed and the characters uninteresting. Lacking in some respects, but there were enough strong characters and performances and the general story and visuals were a treat to me.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I still say the Meredith Vickers we saw on screen is a replicant/cylon/android/artificial person.

If they had done a main character switch during the last part while at the time revealing that Vickers was an android, it would have made for a much better movie. The idea that a 'product' of humanity decides to go search for humanity's creators is a heck a lot more interesting than some dumb scientist who's religious views are so one-sided that she won't be convinced of anything. It would also make sense why Vickers wouldn't go back to Earth because someone would no doubt know that she really is an android and most likely be dismantled to find out what happened on the expedition.

But since they didn't do that, we're stuck with a father/daughter thing that accomplishes nothing and a death that rendered her character completely pointless. Sure, you could imagine her being an android, but what's the point? I could imagine Elizabeth as some secret undercover atheist who is just putting on a religious act because so many rich stupid people buy into it.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I actually agree with almost all of this except that Prometheus is poorly executed and the characters uninteresting. Lacking in some respects, but there were enough strong characters and performances and the general story and visuals were a treat to me.

The visuals were no doubt spectacular (though I wish they went full Giger instead of meeting half way), but the story and characters? *shakes head* Elizabeth's faith/science mash up didn't work, her boyfriend is a gawddang drama queen, the Captain doesn't give a crap about the well being of his crew, and the action scenes are some of the worst edited sequences I've seen in a big budget movie. You can't have a zombie sequence where a good number of the crew are killed and not bring it up afterwards! If death means nothing to any of the characters, what's the point?
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I just watched Prometheus again with the Lindelof/Spaights commentary. Lindelof admits he is pretentious about 15 times throughout the commentary. Apparently the commentary track was recorded before Prometheus' release, but somehow he knew that people would hate it. He spends most of the commentary trying to explain the scenes that don't make any sense. Most of the time his explanation is "we wanted to add more mystery" or something along the lines of "I changed it because I'm pretentious, sorry if you don't like it". Some stuff did make more sense after understanding where Lindelof and Scott where coming from, but it just didn't come across after deleting so many scenes and changing around the Spaights script. Almost everything interesting in the movie was originally thought up by Spaights and he seems very down to earth about it all. A couple times you could hear him cringe at the changes they made, but both writers give kudos to each other.

To answer your questions as I understand them after listening to what Lindelof had to say:

Why were the engineers in the security hologram running? - because they weren't able to contain the goo, there was an outbreak it it created some kind of monster - You don't see the monster in the hologram because "we wanted it to be more mysterious".

Why would they run to the room with the black goo? - Understanding that there is a complex tunnel system, there was probably another exit in that room somewhere. Or, they just panic'd, or it was bad writing.

What the f%&* is the black goo really used for. Creation or destruction? - Creation, but what it creates depends on . . . "well, we want that to remain mysterious"

Did they create us, were we an accident? - Yes, they created us, but apparently they weren't happy with the results. "why? we wanted to keep it mysterious"

Why 2000 years into hyper sleep did he want to kill us and return to earth and kill everyone there? - I think the plan was to dump black goo on us about 2000 years ago, but due to the outbreak killing all the engineers, they weren't able to complete the task. Perhaps the last engineer was in hypersleep before the outbreak took place, we will never know, "it's a mystery"

Why was there an Alien on the wall in the one room, but never around until the end when a mutant face hugging baby created one? - there is no acceptable answer for this IMO, just bad writing.

Why did David feel the need to kill people for no reason? - they kind of touched on this in the commentary, multiple reasons, none of which came across very clearly. Lindelof said David was under-impressed with his creators, but he was also carrying out orders to do whatever it takes to get the answers to immortality for Weyland. I don't think he knew what exactly would happen to Holloway when he gave him the goo, but maybe it would give him some answers for Weyland. Also, they wanted to keep David's motivations mysterious.

There are 1001 more unanswered questions I have about the movie that would all be answered with "we wanted to keep it mysterious" from Lindelof.

Thank you for that. In a way it answers some questions/theories behind what may have happened. But I have to agree with someone's statement above. Even if I don't intend on revealing the conclusion to the mystery or lead on to other possibilities, without at least knowing the answers to the questions myself. The fact that he constantly explains his writing decisions with, "We wanted to be more mysterious, or leave it a mystery." in my eyes is a cop out because he did not posses the imaginative skills to think that far a head in his own story. What you end up with by answering in that manner is everyone believing that it wasn't meant to be a mystery, but more of a plot hole or mistake in your writing abilities.

The movie itself was visually amazing. There were some very strong performances as well as some characters who had depth. However, IMO the execution was lacking by attempting to get too creative with the writing and overlooking the obvious. Like the scientist that searched his whole life to find his creator or aliens, finds them, and is ticked off for absolutely no reason. The Captain who genuinely has no purpose on the ship except to have the title "Captain". Or the bad a## geologist that turns into a little girl because he is on an alien expedition that he signed up for or the biologist who is the exact opposite, scared all the time, until life threatening situations and is suddenly the alien snake charmer. Creative writing is fine. Plot twists and mysterious occurrences have their place, but not at the expense of the obvious.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

David seems more like a replicant from Blade Runner than a synthetic from the Alien universe. He seems to have contempt for most humans.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

If someone has already said this or even asked it I am sorry. but if Weyland knew about a possible alien civilization shouldn't there be some kind of record of it that members of the board should have. I mean I understand that said files could have been deleted, but an expedition this size has to have left some form of a paper trail. Maybe not a complete trail, but at least a starting point.
I also have to ask why did the alien that came out of the Jockey not look like a worm, but a fully grown specimen?
These are just a few of the consistancies I down think a sequel or even the start of the series should leave unanswered.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Yeah, I wish the creature that came out of the jockey looked more like a traditional chestburster, only slightly different leaving us to wonder what it will turn into when full sized. I really hope what we saw wasn't supposed to be a fully grown specimen. Maybe they will still show it turn into something else in the next movie.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Yeah, I wish the creature that came out of the jockey looked more like a traditional chestburster, only slightly different leaving us to wonder what it will turn into when full sized. I really hope what we saw wasn't supposed to be a fully grown specimen. Maybe they will still show it turn into something else in the next movie.

Cripes. Even Paul W.S. Anderson did a better job for his Alien vs Predator film ending. And again, why does the deacon have a placenta?! Human males cannot form placentas!
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Well, there seems to be a lot of "gaps" in this movie that needed filling in. My guess is that the engineer was just bigger and allowed the xenomorph to gestate longer, where a human is smaller and the alien emerged during an earlier state in development....I actually would have liked to have seen the Guy attacked by the snake xenomorph survive, only to have a more traditional chest burster emerge on the way back to the ship before the other mutated Guy showed up.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I'm sorry, see what?

This?
alien3-2.jpg
 
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