Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
- Thread starter Vivek
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Master Dahark
Well-Known Member
While admittedly true, do we really want to see this on the big screen?
Or this?
I've always just believed that the sun does something to his metabolism, just as it does his strength, allowing him to just be 'fit' without even trying. I remember bits from an episode of Lois & Clark, where Lois commented on all the junk food in Clark's fridge.
And then Lex in All Star Superman, where the mere notion is just one more reason for him to hate Superman, lol
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Zombie_61
Master Member
In a word, yes. Humans see large muscles and they equate that with physical strength, so Superman's musculature is a visual cue that immediately informs the reader/viewer that he's strong.
Zombie_61
Master Member
Now that you mention it...
From left to right: Cover of Superman #6, Kirk Alyn (who played Superman in the Columbia Superman serials from 1948 to 1950), George Reeves (The Adventures of Superman, 1952-1958), Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain, Brandon Routh, and Henry Cavill (my apologies to Smallville fans, but as far as I know Welling never donned the tights and cape). As you can see, until Cavill none of the most well-known actors to have played Superman have been particularly muscular. With the possible exception of Dean Cain, Cavill is the only actor to exhibit the kind of muscularity seen in Superman's earliest comic book incarnations, which set the standard for the character's physique.
Master Dahark
Well-Known Member
Close- David 'Darth Vader' Prowse!
YenChih Lin
Master Member
Dear Zombie_61:
I kindly disagree with you. Christopher did indeed work out hard, you can see that transition in the movie, when he first spoke to Jor-El, he was still building up his muscles, then later in the scene with Lois you could clearly make out that he gained muscles (indeed they inserted the mentioning of 225 lbs into the script, when Lois asked about his weight). Christopher even recalled it in his book "Still me", when he auditioned for - he refered himself as a a WASP - White Anglo Saxon Protestant, a tall but lean guy. He hated the trainings with weight, but was dedicated to take on the role and went to Prowse's Gym that time, eating proteins en masse. Via google search you can find some photos of his work out and on YouTube there are interviews with him, while taking a break from the work out. As well as behind the scenes pages of old mags. He gradually did for Superman II and in Superman III, he is so ripped like Cavill. The problem as I stated above, there was no such sophisticated costume making yet. There were muscle suits, but Chris refused to wear one.
EDIT (some pics):
Start of the movie and middle - see the difference
Even more muscle in Superman III:
Old article on a Superman page regardiing his training: http://supermania78.com/2013/09/5995/
I kindly disagree with you. Christopher did indeed work out hard, you can see that transition in the movie, when he first spoke to Jor-El, he was still building up his muscles, then later in the scene with Lois you could clearly make out that he gained muscles (indeed they inserted the mentioning of 225 lbs into the script, when Lois asked about his weight). Christopher even recalled it in his book "Still me", when he auditioned for - he refered himself as a a WASP - White Anglo Saxon Protestant, a tall but lean guy. He hated the trainings with weight, but was dedicated to take on the role and went to Prowse's Gym that time, eating proteins en masse. Via google search you can find some photos of his work out and on YouTube there are interviews with him, while taking a break from the work out. As well as behind the scenes pages of old mags. He gradually did for Superman II and in Superman III, he is so ripped like Cavill. The problem as I stated above, there was no such sophisticated costume making yet. There were muscle suits, but Chris refused to wear one.
EDIT (some pics):
Start of the movie and middle - see the difference
Even more muscle in Superman III:
Old article on a Superman page regardiing his training: http://supermania78.com/2013/09/5995/
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Zombie_61
Master Member
Yes, I'm aware Christopher Reeve, and Dean Cain, and Brandon Routh, all worked very hard to build up their physiques in order to play Superman. But, as I've commented earlier in this thread, they were in shape but they weren't in "Super" shape. It's not about their fitness levels, it's about muscle mass and how that will look in the Superman suit on-screen (regardless of whether it's a television screen or a movie screen). And when you look at the image I posted in post #2525 it's easy to see that every actor except Cavill exhibited less muscle mass than the Superman in the comic art.
To be clear, I'm not attempting to say whether this is a good thing or a bad thing; that's for everyone to decide for themselves. I'm only making an observation.
Just in case you don't already know, movies are generally filmed out of sequence; it's only in the editing room that they put the footage together in the proper order in order to tell the story. With regards to Superman (1978) I have no idea about what the actual filming schedule was, but they could have filmed those scenes months apart with the "middle" scenes filmed long before the "start" scenes. In your examples, I think the differences in lighting (i.e., studio lights versus natural sunlight) account for the differences in the appearance of Reeve's musculature....Start of the movie and middle - see the difference
And this is a valid point. In the comics Superman has generally been drawn as a tall person with a great deal of muscle mass, so there's an expectation that he will appear that way regardless of whether you're reading a comic book, or watching an animated or live action movie. His "ripped" appearance in more recent years is a reflection of the general public's perception of what a "fit" male should look like. At the time Superman first appeared in Action Comics #1 in June of 1938 a "ripped" physique (as we know it today) was the exception rather than the rule--you could be big and "beefy", but as long as you appeared to have large muscles the average person would think you were "fit". But that definition of "fitness" has changed over the years. If you were to look at photos of Arnold Schwarzenegger from his first Mr. Olympia win in 1970 and compare them to photos of his seventh Mr. Olympia win in 1980 you would see a difference in his level of definition because the definition (no pun intended) of physical fitness had changed, and having a thin layer of fat between skin and muscle was no longer "acceptable". As such, comic artists followed suit and drew Superman (and every other superhero) with more and more definition.
Now, the argument has been made that Superman doesn't need that level of muscularity because he's from Krypton and would be much stronger than the average human even with what we would call an "average" physique. I can't disagree with that, but Superman's creators Jerry Siegel and Joel Shuster chose to represent him as having an above average amount of muscle mass, so that's the standard that was set. Fans can debate the "reality" of it as much as they like, but it is what it is.
YenChih Lin
Master Member
I know what you mean, don't forget to take in account that the artist Wayne Boring was the one, who began with the "Super" physic of superheros, the exaggeration of be more than a strongman. It's also how you do definitions of muscle groups. AFAIK Cavill had a special regiment of developing certain muscle groups in upper torso and arm/shoulder area.
But I do disagree that he would have looked better or more defined than Chris in the classic suit. It really has to do with costume technology to give that comic look of totally ripped.
Artists are drawing superheroes "naked" suit on "naked" body. You'll never archive it with real clothes, unless you "cheat" with optical tricks which I stated above. And if those special techniques would have existed then, it would have been marvelous looking. Besides, those are actors, not bodybuilders.
But I do disagree that he would have looked better or more defined than Chris in the classic suit. It really has to do with costume technology to give that comic look of totally ripped.
Artists are drawing superheroes "naked" suit on "naked" body. You'll never archive it with real clothes, unless you "cheat" with optical tricks which I stated above. And if those special techniques would have existed then, it would have been marvelous looking. Besides, those are actors, not bodybuilders.
Zombie_61
Master Member
I would agree that Cavill's musculature would not look more defined if he were to wear the same "spandex" type of costume that Reeve wore. But he would appear to be bigger than Reeve simply because he has more muscle mass (at least during filming) than Reeve did; whether or not that would be "better" is for the viewer to decide.
On this we agree. Artists have the luxury of adding as much detail as they want (within the limits of their talent, that is), and in doing so create a sort of "hyper" reality in their work because they don't have to adhere to the laws of physics that exist in the real world. Even when a synthetic bodysuit is glued to an actor (like the one Ron Perlman wore for the shirtless scenes in Hellboy) or literally painted on (like the body makeup Lou Ferrigno wore in The Incredible Hulk) they have to "cheat" the highlights and shadows in order for the various contours to photograph properly.
RougeAvenger81
Well-Known Member
Quite simply, just like the evolution of the comics, peoples views change over time as well. If you look at body builders in the 60's and 70's it was about size and strength. Look at a body builder now, size and strength are part of it, but a huge part is cutting after bulking. Shredded in everyway. Females are not exempt either. Marylin Monroe is a very attractive woman. But look at her photoshoots. No where near toned and slim as models or fitness women are today. Comes with the times. Great advances in dieting knowledge, different forms of fitness and training, as well as the knowledge and technology to film in different ways. Like some have said already, a good portion of it could be shading to make it stand out if it was a night shoot etc because the dimly lite stage might not show as much. Filming years ago, waredrobe, directors and lighting techs may never have thought to airbrush a costume to define muscles for the film. As many have said, just my $.02
JD
Master Member
Another look at the new supersuit... I think the applied muscles to Cavill is a little more evident. I'm no expert on anatomy....
http://batman-news.com/2014/08/26/h...cket-challenge-superman-suit-amy-adams-video/
http://batman-news.com/2014/08/26/h...cket-challenge-superman-suit-amy-adams-video/
.:MirrorminD:.
Sr Member
Here it is embedded
[video=vimeo;104408762]http://vimeo.com/104408762[/video]
[video=vimeo;104408762]http://vimeo.com/104408762[/video]
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