Superman: Legacy

[batguy]

How so?

'Returns' wasn't a Batman movie. It was an eccentric Tim Burton movie that had Batman wandering around aimlessly in the background.

That would be fine if it had been marketed as an eccentric Tim Burton movie. And if there were half a dozen other decent Batman movies out there to choose from.

But in 1992 we didn't have any of that.
We had one good Batman movie. Then we waited 3 years for a sequel . . . and we got a disappointing franchise-killer.

Seriously. Weaker franchises have been killed by movies that weren't as far off the mark as 'Returns.' Superman got a pair of bad movies in the mid-1980s and Warner Bros didn't reboot it again for almost 20 years. They absolutely could have abandoned Batman for decades too. IMO the animated TV series single-handedly kept it alive (as a TV/movie franchise) in the 1990s. There was a 15-year span of crap movies between Tim Burton's good one and the start of the Nolan series.

 

[Joek3rr]

View attachment 1794972

I love the Kingdom Come style. This is promising.

 

[Ron]

'Returns' wasn't a Batman movie. It was an eccentric Tim Burton movie that had Batman wandering around aimlessly in the background.

That would be fine if it had been marketed as an eccentric Tim Burton movie. And if there were half a dozen other decent Batman movies out there to choose from.

But in 1992 we didn't have any of that.
We had one good Batman movie. Then we waited 3 years for a sequel . . . and we got a disappointing franchise-killer.

Seriously. Weaker franchises have been killed by movies that weren't as far off the mark as 'Returns.' Superman got a pair of bad movies in the mid-1980s and Warner Bros didn't reboot it again for almost 20 years. They absolutely could have abandoned Batman for decades too. IMO the animated TV series single-handedly kept it alive (as a TV/movie franchise) in the 1990s. There was a 15-year span of crap movies between Tim Burton's good one and the start of the Nolan series.

It's definitely more Burtonesque, that's for sure. I loved that about it though but I can see where someone wouldn't. I don't know if I'd call it a bait and switch but it's certainly a departure from the first. WB for one wanted to move on from Burton. It's a shame we never got a trilogy in the end. Two-Face and Riddler are two villains that would have been interesting to see in Burton's hands. Robin probably not. Actually, I don't think Robin would've have worked well with Keaton's Batman. His Bruce Wayne was too much of an alienated loner to be a surrogate father. Both '89 and Returns in that regard had very minor yet interesting themes that could've been expanded upon. Batman and Joker being two sides of the craziness coin for one. In Return's, there was a dynamic between Bruce and Selina and the idea of two warped personalities like theirs having nobody else to relate with, thereby needing each other that I wish would've been further explored as well. The Nolan movies are stronger thematically of course but style and design I give to Burton all day long. I was hoping the Flash movie would've been a hit and coxed WB into asking Burton to make a third Batman. I don't know how good it could be but I'm so curious as to what a Burton Batman movie would like 30+ years later. Oh well.

 

[batguy]

It's definitely more Burtonesque, that's for sure. I loved that about it though but I can see where someone wouldn't. I don't know if I'd call it a bait and switch but it's certainly a departure from the first. WB for one wanted to move on from Burton. It's a shame we never got a trilogy in the end. Two-Face and Riddler are two villains that would have been interesting to see in Burton's hands. Robin probably not. Actually, I don't think Robin would've have worked well with Keaton's Batman. His Bruce Wayne was too much of an alienated loner to be a surrogate father. Both '89 and Returns in that regard had very minor yet interesting themes that could've been expanded upon. Batman and Joker being two sides of the craziness coin for one. In Return's, there was a dynamic between Bruce and Selina and the idea of two warped personalities like theirs having nobody else to relate with, thereby needing each other that I wish would've been further explored as well. The Nolan movies are stronger thematically of course but style and design I give to Burton all day long. I was hoping the Flash movie would've been a hit and coxed WB into asking Burton to make a third Batman. I don't know how good it could be but I'm so curious as to what a Burton Batman movie would like 30+ years later. Oh well.

- The movie is called 'Batman Returns'.
- Batman feels like the most out-of-place character in the whole thing.
Any questions?

I've tried to re-watch 'Returns' with more forgiving eyes. I really have. But I can't even be bothered to care about its strengths because it fails pretty hard at the primary jobs.

A filmmaker could do a much better job of exploring Peter Venkman & Dana Barrett's relationship if they didn't bother to make a decent ghost-busting flick. But what would be the point of that? It's not what the buying public wants from a GB movie.

I have my share of gripes about Chris Nolan's Batman movies too. But I think they accomplished quite a bit of character-depth-plumbing, and they did it without compromising the movie's primary jobs as much as Burton did.

As for the Schumacher era, I think of it as separate reboot of the Adam West TV show. Different universe from the Burton movies.


What else could be done with the Burton-verse Batman now? I dunno. It kind of depends on what they did with the characters in the interim. What happened to Catwoman/Selina after 'Returns'? Honestly I think adding a Robin figure to it might help at this stage (or retroactively). Or at least have him get into something permanent with Selina for a while. Without having some kind of post-Alfred family, the Keaton version of Bruce would still be the same guy from 35 years ago, just old & retired. That sounds more depressing than interesting. Jake Skywalker comes to mind.

 

[CessnaDriver]

The moment the real Batman appeared on the big screen.
I thought the same, My God indeed.

 

[janglesworthy]

Snyder was Joe Rogans podcast today and had some interesting things to so say about Superman and Batman.

 

[dascoyne]

Gunn gave us a great Batman movie in 2010.