Studio Scale (:p) AT-AT
- Thread starter MonsieurTox
- Start date
MonsieurTox
Master Member
They not scanned them, them used photogrammetry. Not sure what happened because every model in the game is off
of course they straightened and mirrored everything so they have nothing to do with the original models and for game sake they used low poly models that are not suitable for 3D printing except if you like faceted models. While I can understand what I sais above, there are some issues I cant understand, for example the back of the at-st head is out of proportions
Like I said in my post this AT-AT has been fully modeled by myself using Rhino.
Im not a thief and I dont used work of other guys and take credits for that, unlike some guys around there, if you know what I mean ! In short I would not advice to use any SWBF files to make SS models, you'll just end up with an enlarged Bandai model haha (they used the same files).
I'll keep in mind the fact you're trying to discredit my own work though. I now know for sure I wasn't wrong about you.
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dsp5500
Well-Known Member
Amazing work Julian, Never known anyone yo grasp Rhino so quickly. Truely amazing. Well done.
Ah Thanks for clearing that up julian. Passing of ripped mesh's as your own is frowned among in the modding community.
You might know who this guy is? Relation?
He's been spamming the forums asking for the Battle Front models?
Ah Thanks for clearing that up julian. Passing of ripped mesh's as your own is frowned among in the modding community.
You might know who this guy is? Relation?
He's been spamming the forums asking for the Battle Front models?
MonsieurTox
Master Member
Hey Rob, glad you visit my post, I hope you'll get some inspiration to correct your own AT-AT !
Yeah it's me ! Like you can see, Im not asking for BF modelS but for the Rebel Transport. Look at the date too, the AT-AT mesh was available since several months along with the AT-ST mesh.
) (they were already available during the game Beta !).Yes at this time I was thinking using the BF Rebel Transport mesh, and even posted that on Facebook so everyone knows it and never tried to rip anything off.
but this was before I found that all the models are off. What were you looking in this board ? The meshes to get a better slave or at-at ? In your case yes, they may be of some help !
Oh Yeah, do you want to compare the BF meshes with mine ?
)Ive been sending to friends pictures of my progress all along the modeling process so it's not an issue for me.
Yeah I too think it's awesome I have been able to model this AT-AT hull after only one month or so of Rhino. I may try the Slave one next !!
Jeez, Julien. I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just asking a question about your process. I think the EA scan/Battlefront data is a great jumping off point. Their ROTJ AT-ST has some accurate dimensions from the scan data, and the Rebel Transport will be an interesting model to check against the reference pics EA took of the model recently. I think between the two, a pretty accurate model can be made. The models from Battlefront imported into Rhino are very useful, even when comparing the AT-ST against hard data from recent archives measurements.
Good luck with your photogrammetry and Rhino work, it looks like you are making excellent progress, and the quest for absolute accuracy is commendable, and admirable. If you read any more into that simple sentence, I can't help it. I have no interest in ridiculous back and forth drama on this forum, and I have chosen to ignore it. Negativity does no good.
I guess it was my mistake to ask a question about your work. I will try not to ask again, in the future.
Good luck with your photogrammetry and Rhino work, it looks like you are making excellent progress, and the quest for absolute accuracy is commendable, and admirable. If you read any more into that simple sentence, I can't help it. I have no interest in ridiculous back and forth drama on this forum, and I have chosen to ignore it. Negativity does no good.
I guess it was my mistake to ask a question about your work. I will try not to ask again, in the future.
dsp5500
Well-Known Member
Hey Rob, glad you visit my post, I hope you'll get some inspiration to correct your own AT-AT !
Yeah it's me ! Like you can see, Im not asking for BF modelS but for the Rebel Transport. Look at the date too, the AT-AT mesh was available since several months along with the AT-ST mesh.
Yes at this time I was thinking using the BF Rebel Transport mesh, and even posted that on Facebook so everyone knows it and never tried to rip anything off.
What were you looking in this board ? The meshes to get a better slave or at-at ? In your case yes, they may be of some help !
Oh Yeah, do you want to compare the BF meshes with mine ?
Ive been sending to friends pictures of my progress all along the modeling process so it's not an issue for me.
Yeah I too think it's awesome I have been able to model this AT-AT hull after only one month or so of Rhino. I may try the Slave one next !!
Yer Julian wasn't poking a stick at you, Just truly amazed at your CAD progress. Wasn't that long ago you were making fun of me for using said tools now you've fully embraced them. Well done.
I was amazed if you learned this in a year but you say one month? Well my hat of to you. Well done.
As for the modding, I've been involved since Quake and even before, even owned a 2000 seat LANing centre before ADSL killed it.
But yer you seem defensive so i won't post anymore and just enjoy it from the side lines.
MonsieurTox
Master Member
No problem Jason.
Yeah I think what would be interesting is seeing all the Rebel Transport they took for the photogrammetry. The texture of the ship looks pretty good So I guess they have a lot of nice close ups ! There is not a lot of reference material available regarding the RT so it would be great to see. It seems they nailed the shape though ! I tried to look ingame if I was able to ID some parts but they're too sketchy.
I havent scaled and measured their AT-AT (the head is plain wrong though and the body lacks curves from what I can see in game).
The ST looks nice and the head is pretty good. Front, sides and top look OK but the back has some proportions issues (distance between the parts).
I was just hoping that since you saw the ILM ATAT casting in person and that you seem to know the EA model you have spotten that there were nothing in common in term of accuracy between the EA and my model and that they are two different models.
As you know better than any one (i really do think you are an AT-AT guru like Beaz is to the X-Wing), that MR was a casting and not a real deal, so I don't tend to use it to compare to anything else. It's a cool replica from post ESB though!
Yeah, the parts for the transport are IDed to a point and then it's just murky and some stuff is covered with that weird mold. And a Roco assembly has fallen off... It will be an idealized model for sure. It is my hope that the EA scan will at least get us something to check against what we come up with, in the hull dimensions. If it's a close comparison, it will be gratifying.
But back to your AT-AT. Phenomenal Rhino work!
Yeah, the parts for the transport are IDed to a point and then it's just murky and some stuff is covered with that weird mold. And a Roco assembly has fallen off... It will be an idealized model for sure. It is my hope that the EA scan will at least get us something to check against what we come up with, in the hull dimensions. If it's a close comparison, it will be gratifying.
But back to your AT-AT. Phenomenal Rhino work!
MonsieurTox
Master Member
The one month doesnt include the time I spent on the BR parts. Even if I realize now that they were pretty simple parts, I was happy and quite proud of them at the time (made half of them on sketchup before I switched to Rhino).
I probably do not model like a true 3D modeler, I have a more traditionnal approach and build my models a bit like I would do in real life. For example you can notice in the pic showing the mesh that one of the opening in the left was too large, I added two square solide to reduce the width and used boolean operation to trim the added cubes to get them flush with the surounding hull surface, that's a bit like adding styrene stripes then trim and sand them. There is probably a better way to do that but Im still learning and I hope to learn a lot more to speed up the process.
Haha yeah I reckon I changed my mind regarding 3D modeling and Im glad I did. I do not regret and I enjoy every minute spent on Rhino (not really, some time It drives me crazy when It takes me 3 hours to correct a naked edge !).
That's great regarding your modding skills.
Yes I'm defensive because you accuse me of ripping off someone else work with no proof and you have all the 3D background to see that those two models are different.
So no, I don't mind you posting here to post positive or negative (but constructive) comments regarding my work, yes you can say that Im 3D modeling the wrong (which is probably true) and wont take it bad and would be very happy to learn the right way to do things but no I cant accept you posting here to say lies.
MonsieurTox
Master Member
Yeah I know but I tend to think (I could be wrong) that the hull used on the MR casting is not a recast but comes from the same molds than the screen used hulls. It' s bit more distorded in some places though, but all the screen used hulls have their own deffects too... Several spare hulls were cast (there's a like of stacked hull on a shelf in the background of a pic of MacClung working on the SSD). Several spare ATAT parts were made (yes we own one of those production made parts
).Ive been lucky enough to see in person the one I call "MR casting" and one of the screen used model (4 times), and they're pretty close however I only used the screen used and the production castings as reference and took measurements directly off them since we do not know really which gen casting the "MR" atat is. However It definitely has the right feel which was not the case of my first ATAT hull haha !
There are also several spare aluminium legs floating around...
I have not done a close inspection of the EA Rebel Transport but the hull is not symetrical (the paneling is not), so they probably not mirrored it ?
Im still hoping to get the EA RT mesh, that would be the best start. Maybe Bandai will release one kit at dome point from these files. Those would be the best reference available however I would prefer to start from scratch using their pic survey of the RT !
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dragnink
Well-Known Member
Hi guys, nice to see some dialogue going on here. As always Julien, you never fail to impress! Now this project will have 3 hulls poised to make it outside of our computer screens.
I'm typing with one good arm after a shoulder injury here, but felt I had to give my 2 cents on the Battlefront assets. I have a loose connection with someone at DICE and am all too familiar with how frenzied a pace asset creation is for games in the development pipeline. DICE did use photogrammetry, but it's not a magic bullet. The raw scan data gets quickly leveled and retopologized, the data split in two and mirrored on the x axis. This is done to generate assets as quickly as possible, often times with multiple individuals collaborating on one specific model. Everything ends up being an approximation of the real thing, but the results in the game speak for themselves. They look awesome! Corners get cut at every stage of production, so the ss-modeler would get the best reference by patterning off the raw scan data instead. At the last stage, the game meshes are reduced in polygon counts to appeal to a wide range of graphics hardware (and to keep framerates running smooth).
Jason, I was wondering how did you compare measurement data from the AT-ST's at the Archive to the Battlefront model? I had 40+ hours into creating "fill in the blank" pdf documents for EFX's private use and am still, after all this time waiting on getting back a second round of data gathered in August to finish my project for them.
I'm typing with one good arm after a shoulder injury here, but felt I had to give my 2 cents on the Battlefront assets. I have a loose connection with someone at DICE and am all too familiar with how frenzied a pace asset creation is for games in the development pipeline. DICE did use photogrammetry, but it's not a magic bullet. The raw scan data gets quickly leveled and retopologized, the data split in two and mirrored on the x axis. This is done to generate assets as quickly as possible, often times with multiple individuals collaborating on one specific model. Everything ends up being an approximation of the real thing, but the results in the game speak for themselves. They look awesome! Corners get cut at every stage of production, so the ss-modeler would get the best reference by patterning off the raw scan data instead. At the last stage, the game meshes are reduced in polygon counts to appeal to a wide range of graphics hardware (and to keep framerates running smooth).
Jason, I was wondering how did you compare measurement data from the AT-ST's at the Archive to the Battlefront model? I had 40+ hours into creating "fill in the blank" pdf documents for EFX's private use and am still, after all this time waiting on getting back a second round of data gathered in August to finish my project for them.
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Julien, the MR AT-AT was a Pro-E file at a certain point, and then as we all know, China did whatever China wanted to do, lol. But the source material was a resin casting, yeah. I can't speak for it's provenance. As I said, you're more knowledgeable about the AT-AT than I am!
Matt, I am not going by much, to be honest - just measurements from Greg's parts, measurements from the machined armature, and when you scale the EA asset in Rhino, it looks pretty good. Not exact of course, but better than a modeler would get just working from photos. It was just me playing around in the program. I'm not taking any of the info to any conclusion though, since I know you're on the Efx one, and eventually either they will release it, or someone else will. It's not my favorite iteration of the design, so it's not on my bench
You're the ROTJ AT-ST man, so I'm waiting to see what you come up with
Matt, I am not going by much, to be honest - just measurements from Greg's parts, measurements from the machined armature, and when you scale the EA asset in Rhino, it looks pretty good. Not exact of course, but better than a modeler would get just working from photos. It was just me playing around in the program. I'm not taking any of the info to any conclusion though, since I know you're on the Efx one, and eventually either they will release it, or someone else will. It's not my favorite iteration of the design, so it's not on my bench
You're the ROTJ AT-ST man, so I'm waiting to see what you come up with
MonsieurTox
Master Member
I know that Jason, what I call the "MR casting" is the the ILM casting used by MR to make their model.
I don't want to speak about the MR AT-AT as everything is wrong... From the basic shape to every dimensions. Not sure how they managed to screw it that much ! And rhat's not the fault of the Chinese guys ! I saw the original MR files and they were off.
Yeah, that's what happens when the project managers don't have the eye for detail we studio scale forum members do! I had very little influence or pull on that one... and I doubt back in 2003 that I would have had the knowledge to say something.
But it's still leagues better than Icons had done previously! And you gotta give MR credit for engineering the thing to hell and back - they didn't sag or tip over!
But it's still leagues better than Icons had done previously! And you gotta give MR credit for engineering the thing to hell and back - they didn't sag or tip over!
MonsieurTox
Master Member
I wont sound humble haha but I think my ROTJ AT-ST is much closer on every point than the EA model... And than any ROTJ ST made so far, but it seems Matt is going to put all ROTJ ST that have been made so far to shame ! Haha
Can't wait to see that, Maybe It would be the first eFX model I would buy ?MonsieurTox
Master Member
Yeah, this project was a fail from the beginning. They used over distorded ref pics and the ref model was not even fully covered. The head is probably the best part even if it has a major flaw on the under side... The floor is not flush with the gun openings of the front which throws off the whole geometry of the underside (chin intake etc).
Yes a MR ATAT wont sag for sure, but the polystone they used is a nightmare... Heavy as hell, brittle as glass and cold to the touch as ice. And too much smooth !
- - - Updated - - -
Hmm Yeah, Interceptor And Y-Wing first (the Y could be the first eFX product I would buy after allWell, let's see EFx actually get something... ANYTHING model related to market this year.
).
dragnink
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've always been "that guy" when it comes to the danged thing. I've got x-ray
vision for everything that's wrong with everyone's AT-ST's rather than appreciating
them as my first childhood memory. I fell asleep for most of the movie in the theater
in '83 and the Walkers were all I continued to think about until my teens.
That's when I started noticing other kinds of "legs" if you know what I mean.
I'm hoping everyone will appreciate my hard work! Hopefully re-negotiations will be fruitful, EFX potentially has a huge hit on its hands with this one.
vision for everything that's wrong with everyone's AT-ST's rather than appreciating
them as my first childhood memory. I fell asleep for most of the movie in the theater
in '83 and the Walkers were all I continued to think about until my teens.
That's when I started noticing other kinds of "legs" if you know what I mean.
I'm hoping everyone will appreciate my hard work! Hopefully re-negotiations will be fruitful, EFX potentially has a huge hit on its hands with this one.
