Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Luke's destiny was never to rebuild the Jedi Order, his destiny was to be the means through which Anakin was able to fulfill the prophecy of bringing balance to the Force by destroying the Emporer. Luke's destiny was to save his father. Yoda simply asked Luke to "pass on what you have learned". From what we know from TFA he did teach others the ways of the Jedi but that eventually failed. The OT and PT was Anakin's story (in retrospect per GL) not Luke's. And this sequel trilogy is about Rey.

The New Jedi Order of the EU never happened.

If you're saying that Yoda's line of "Pass on what you have learned." doesn't mean to continue the Jedi in some new form, you're also putting your own opinion on it. I seriously doubt Yoda meant to train a few people, but never continue the Jedi. Disney can make it mean what they want irregardless of what Lucas intended.

And EVERY time someone mentions Luke training Jedi, you don't need to post the little EU thing. No one said anything about the old EU, that's you coming up with that. No one ever says have Luke training hundreds of Jedi. I would have been happy if he had at least a handful of trained Jedi. To me, instead of getting an Obi Wan figure in TFA, we got a failed Jedi who couldn't even keep things together to train even one Jedi Knight. Yawn.

And what pray tell is the real way? No emotional attachments? Letting go of things you fear to lose? That certainly didn't come off with Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi. You really think that he's going to lecture Rey about how she should detach herself from those she cares about so that she won't be tempted by the dark side? That would be such a character assassination moment for him since the very nature of being attached to those you care about is what saved him and Vader in the end.

The Jedi Order as it was during the Old Republic must not return. Change will be difficult, but it's needed if the Jedi are going to survive.

You misinterpreted that. When I said "real way" I meant in any meaningful way. If you have a bunch of people with Rey's level of training they don't have the experience or knowledge that we would think Luke should have. It's like a bunch of "black belts" in a martial arts studio who, on paper have the training and knowledge, but have no real experience so they are easily beaten by lower ranks who have fought competitively. Over the years I've seen many "black belts" find that out.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

If you're saying that Yoda's line of "Pass on what you have learned." doesn't mean to continue the Jedi in some new form, you're also putting your own opinion on it. I seriously doubt Yoda meant to train a few people, but never continue the Jedi. Disney can make it mean what they want irregardless of what Lucas intended.

And EVERY time someone mentions Luke training Jedi, you don't need to post the little EU thing. No one said anything about the old EU, that's you coming up with that. No one ever says have Luke training hundreds of Jedi. I would have been happy if he had at least a handful of trained Jedi. To me, instead of getting an Obi Wan figure in TFA, we got a failed Jedi who couldn't even keep things together to train even one Jedi Knight. Yawn.



You misinterpreted that. When I said "real way" I meant in any meaningful way. If you have a bunch of people with Rey's level of training they don't have the experience or knowledge that we would think Luke should have. It's like a bunch of "black belts" in a martial arts studio who, on paper have the training and knowledge, but have no real experience so they are easily beaten by lower ranks who have fought competitively. Over the years I've seen many "black belts" find that out.

Actually GL wasn't a fan of Luke getting married or being the head of a new Jedi Temple. And it's entirely possible he had trained a few Jedi, you presume too much. Pass on what you have learned is exactly what the new film has honored, Luke did pass on his knowledge but at the time of TFA it has been interrupted by Kylo Ren. Now Luke is off trying to figure out what he should do, the true meaning of the Force, and has s new student. I really don't get how you seem to not see he is doing exactly what Yoda asked and what he feels is his responsibility to the Jedi Ordet but in his own way. I bring up the EU because you are clearly fixated on that version of Luke but the one we have is much more complicated and interesting. You call him a yawn, that's s shame. I enjoyed Luke in the EU and I enjoy this different direction.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Luke tried and failed.... simple. Now it's up to a new generation "Ray" to fulfill a destiny he was denied.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Luke tried and failed.... simple. Now it's up to a new generation "Ray" to fulfill a destiny he was denied.

Maybe, or maybe to fulfill his destiny he needed a Rey of new hope. The PT Jedi are the failure, not Luke.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Luke was betrayed by Ben Solo. He hid to regroup?Self preservation? Hopefully we'll understand fully in EP8. Clearly he understood what was to surpass when Ray found him. She is the next/last Jedi he needs to "pass along what he has learned".

Maybe, or maybe to fulfill his destiny he needed a Rey of new hope. The PT Jedi are the failure, not Luke.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Actually GL wasn't a fan of Luke getting married or being the head of a new Jedi Temple.

Back this up please? Hamill has stated (or at least strongly implied) as far back as 1983, that Lucas planned on Luke returning as a father in a sequel trilogy. There are quotes where Lucas did mention marriage (not in reference to Luke) in the SW universe - and he wasn't even sure if marriage was a "thing" in that universe.

From 1988: Starlog: Why didn't you give Luke a girl?Lucas: You haven't seen the last three yet.

"Luke would have a romantic relationship with a female love interest (Lucas in 1988)" - this is from Wiki and credits Starlog, 1988 - this may just rehashed the above quote.

I also can't find anything saying Lucas was pro/anti Luke being the head of / founder of a new Jedi Temple / Order. Since Lucas was involved in some capacity with the original EU - and that did include a new Jedi with Luke being involved, I find it hard to believe that he would not have vetoed that (as he did a few other things) if he "wasn't a fan."

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I should add that Lucas is pretty notorious for changing his mind /contradicting himself and just generally making things up as he goes.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

If you have a bunch of people with Rey's level of training they don't have the experience or knowledge that we would think Luke should have. It's like a bunch of "black belts" in a martial arts studio who, on paper have the training and knowledge, but have no real experience so they are easily beaten by lower ranks who have fought competitively. Over the years I've seen many "black belts" find that out.

I don't think "black belts" have the Force as their guide.

 

[cboath]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Back this up please? Hamill has stated (or at least strongly implied) as far back as 1983, that Lucas planned on Luke returning as a father in a sequel trilogy. There are quotes where Lucas did mention marriage (not in reference to Luke) in the SW universe - and he wasn't even sure if marriage was a "thing" in that universe.

From 1988: Starlog: Why didn't you give Luke a girl?Lucas: You haven't seen the last three yet.

"Luke would have a romantic relationship with a female love interest (Lucas in 1988)" - this is from Wiki and credits Starlog, 1988 - this may just rehashed the above quote.

I also can't find anything saying Lucas was pro/anti Luke being the head of / founder of a new Jedi Temple / Order. Since Lucas was involved in some capacity with the original EU - and that did include a new Jedi with Luke being involved, I find it hard to believe that he would not have vetoed that (as he did a few other things) if he "wasn't a fan."

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I should add that Lucas is pretty notorious for changing his mind /contradicting himself and just generally making things up as he goes.

My guess is that his tune changed in the mid 90's.

In the 80's the prequels hadn't been under consideration, nor their story, etc. I imagine that when he came up with the prequel story in the 90's is when he changed his tune because at that point the jedi became more like monks.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

@JD I first heard it on The ForceCast a number of years ago when they were interviewing the Robot Chicken people. In conversations with GL they had suggested spoofing Mara Jade and Lucas expressed his dislike for the character and the entire EU idea that Luke got married and had kids. In another interview on ForceCast Dave Filoni also made mention of it. I'll try and see if I can find the show links. Funny enough I just heard this brought up this week on the Geek Out Loud podcast.

They even filmed it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3s3mog/never_ask_lucas_about_mara_jade_never/

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

@JD I first heard it on The ForceCast a number of years ago when they were interviewing the Robot Chicken people. In conversations with GL they had suggested spoofing Mara Jade and Lucas expressed his dislike for the character and the entire EU idea that Luke got married and had kids. In another interview on ForceCast Dave Filoni also made mention of it. I'll try and see if I can find the show links. Funny enough I just heard this brought up this week on the Geek Out Loud podcast.

They even filmed it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3s3mog/never_ask_lucas_about_mara_jade_never/

Ummm. That was a joke about Lucas not creating Mara Jade and not wanting to include a character he didn't create.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Ummm. That was a joke about Lucas not creating Mara Jade and not wanting to include a character he didn't create.

I know, I just thought it was funny, I'll see if I can find those old shows.. Although it was in the FC interview that this skit was brought up and they confirmed GL's dislike for Mara Jade.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

@JD here we go, a direct quote from Lucas in a 2008 interview with Total Film:

Lucas: I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII - IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there are novels about the events after Episode IV, which isn't at all what I would have done with it.
​

The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, The Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married...

He takes a shot at other EU concepts like the clone Empreror.​

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

@JD here we go, a direct quote from Lucas in a 2008 interview with Total Film:

Lucas: I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII - IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there are novels about the events after Episode IV, which isn't at all what I would have done with it.
​

The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, The Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married...

He takes a shot at other EU concepts like the clone Empreror.​

This is much more a disowning of the EU itself rather than saying if he were to do a sequel trilogy that Luke this would not have happened. If that's "GL not being a fan of Luke getting married or being the head of a new Jedi Temple" - it's definitely a stretch. I could buy this statement of Lucas not endorsing the EU much more than I can of him saying Luke doesn't get married or form a new Jedi Temple/Order.

There are tons of quotes from Uncle George talking about a sequel trilogy and how he even had outlines for it. Lucas seemed to change his mind or had different ideas as often as the wind blows.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

There are tons of quotes from Uncle George talking about a sequel trilogy and how he even had outlines for it. Lucas seemed to change his mind or had different ideas as often as the wind blows.

Fore sure.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

I would take Lucas saying "Luke doesn't get married" as Lucas not being a fan of Luke getting married. In that regard, it seems pretty clear and doesn't seem like a stretch at all. However, Lucas is so wishy washy with just about anything he says so he might've just meant that for about 15 mins or so before he changed his mind again.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

I would take Lucas saying "Luke doesn't get married" as Lucas not being a fan of Luke getting married. In that regard, it seems pretty clear and doesn't seem like a stretch at all. However, Lucas is so wishy washy with just about anything he says so he might've just meant that for about 15 mins or so before he changed his mind again.

With the mention of the novels and the cloned Emperor, it's pretty clear that he's taking a swipe at the EU - he says there isn't any story because he hasn't thought of it. (Which is a clear contradiction to earlier statements that he had outlines for the sequel trilogy).

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I would take Lucas saying "Luke doesn't get married" as Lucas not being a fan of Luke getting married. In that regard, it seems pretty clear and doesn't seem like a stretch at all. However, Lucas is so wishy washy with just about anything he says so he might've just meant that for about 15 mins or so before he changed his mind again.

With the mention of the novels and the cloned Emperor, it's pretty clear that he's taking a swipe at the EU - he says there isn't any story because he hasn't thought of it. (Which is a clear contradiction to earlier statements that he had outlines for the sequel trilogy).

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

It would be interesting to get a read of the Arndt/Lucas treatments and see how they presented Luke but with the cancelation of Rinzler's making of book and his departure from LucasFilm, I am skeptical we will ever get that story. We do know Fin and Rey were at least partly his idea.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

To anyone wondering, Mark Hamill is saying VIII wraps filming on July 22nd. Until the reshoots... in which they'll have to change 80% of the film, mostly to add Jar Jar.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

To anyone wondering, Mark Hamill is saying VIII wraps filming on July 22nd. Until the reshoots... in which they'll have to change 80% of the film, mostly to add Jar Jar.

And in an effort to change the tone add a song and dance number.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Actually GL wasn't a fan of Luke getting married or being the head of a new Jedi Temple. And it's entirely possible he had trained a few Jedi, you presume too much. Pass on what you have learned is exactly what the new film has honored, Luke did pass on his knowledge but at the time of TFA it has been interrupted by Kylo Ren. Now Luke is off trying to figure out what he should do, the true meaning of the Force, and has s new student. I really don't get how you seem to not see he is doing exactly what Yoda asked and what he feels is his responsibility to the Jedi Ordet but in his own way. I bring up the EU because you are clearly fixated on that version of Luke but the one we have is much more complicated and interesting. You call him a yawn, that's s shame. I enjoyed Luke in the EU and I enjoy this different direction.

Again I have never said I wanted the EU Luke at all. That Luke was flawed in some ways as well. I just wanted them to show he had successfully trained a handful of Jedi Knights. No one is saying to recreate the Prequel Jedi or the EU Jedi, just some form. We all know his school or whatever was wiped out, but I wanted him to just have, and heck I'll lower the number even from 5 to 2 fully trained Jedi. Right now he just looks like he's blowing it. I don't get why anyone is against having more Jedi in a SW movie. The reason the Jedi Order was destroyed wasn't about numbers.

I don't think "black belts" have the Force as their guide.

You completely missed the point. Just having the Force doesn't make you have the knowledge and experience to be an effective teacher.