Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I agree that it's not just about expectations, but i find AOTC to be worse that TPM and I remember that being a blow because I thought "With Anakin older how could it possible suck?" My expectation was that it would be better.

ROTS is widely considered the best of the three (not much competition) in part because at that point after two huge disappointments we expected garbage so when we got "meh" we said "well at least it's not trash".

That said, it's hard to argue that they weren't bad films with a lack of true connection to the OT 'cause they were.

I'm trying to remain hopeful though! No matter what, my kids are going to love Ep.7. I'm going to make every effort to love it with them.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm totally staying optimistic about these new films. All I'm saying is, if there's no news to report, then that's ok. I don't need a bunch of fluff and fanfare over nothing just for the sake of doing so. Just look at this thread. 181 pages and really what info do we have? Very, very little.

I for one am very shocked and pleasantly surprised at Disney\LFL and their restraint they've shown so far. I like that they're not trying to beat people over the head with the fact that there are going to be new SW films. This let's wait until there's actual news to talk about is quite nice. Once the film is actually underway, then let loose with the BTS stuff and all that. I'll be eagerly awaiting the first teaser and trailer, too. Just don't need hype and the like when there's nothing there to hype yet.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Ep. VII in any sense. I mean, let's be honest: we have basically zero information on it, except who the director is, and even that's kinda up in the air at the moment based on some rumors (which may be BS anyway, but whatever).

What I'm saying is that the smart move is NOT to over-hype this movie or build up excitement and such. I know some folks enjoy that, but I view that as actually worse if the film fails to deliver. Like, the buildup to a sneeze when you then don't sneeze...and other analogous experiences.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

God, don't you just hate when that happens? I'd much rather sneeze once it starts building than to not have it happen

Exactly. That's why it's better to avoid hype -- both its production and its consumption -- for pre-release stuff. To my way of thinknig, the danger is too great that you'll end up either (A) spoiling something really cool, or (B) setting yourself up for a fall re: expectations.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The pre-release hype was fairly intense, as I recall. Once TPM came out, though, it caught people by surprise not merely because it wasn't that good, but also because it felt like a serious tonal shift from the OT. And it was. I mean, if you watch ROTJ and TPM back to back, you can see tonal connections, but TPM takes all the worst elements of ROTJ and dials them up to 11, while retaining only a smidgen of the best elements.

But here's the thing: once TPM was out, once fans had time to digest it and get over the initial shock, why then do they also strongly dislike AOTC and only grudgingly tolerate ROTS? I don't think you can claim "Oh, it didn't meet expectations" at that point. If anything, I felt like AOTC and ROTS were major steps up from TPM. So, if anything, I SHOULD have liked them a lot more. And, if I think back to it, I did like AOTC a LOT more than TPM (although there was nowhere to go but up...). With ROTS, though, it was this bittersweet end where it just didn't do what I'd hoped it'd do...but I was already prepared for that, given the previous two films.

My point here is that it's not JUST about expectations. One's expectations can fade over time, and one can appreciate what one got instead. Yet my disdain for the PT has actually only intensified the FURTHER I got from the original theatrical releases. Some of that is the wasted potential, but most of it is just evaluating the films for what they are, and finding them...wanting.

If anything, I'd say that, at least in my case, I was more forgiving of the films when they first came out because I WANTED them to meet my expectations, than I was bitter that they didn't. I really wanted to love these films, but no matter how many times I tried re-watching them, I just...couldn't get into them. They aren't Star Wars to me. They're some other franchise with the same logo and character names. I walked out of even TPM sort of....stunned. Not quite comprehending what had happened, but trying to figure out a way to think that it didn't suck. It was only over time that I grew to loathe the film. AOTC left me pumped after the cool action sequences, but ultimately wishing we could've seen more of the Clone Wars. I'd hoped we would by the time we got to Episode III. ROTS I left just sighing, like that moment when you recognize a relationship is over...and you can't even muster the energy to feel anything other than "God, what a waste..." That wasn't really about failure to meet expectations generated by hype. It was more that such a once-strong series had frittered away its good name.



The three films don't really fit. The second two kinda do, but it feels like they're missing a chapter in between them. The first film is its own thing and seems to be completely superfluous. I've long believed that you could sum up the events of the first film in about 20 min of dialogue spread throughout the two subsequent films. All else is fluff and garbage.

Well said, Solo4114!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

See, I agree with Rodney and Sluis Van Shipyards, in regards to hype, speculation, etc. I honestly don't think getting yourself excited for a new product before it comes out contributes nearly as much as Solo is saying, or at least, it really shouldn't. Granted, I was just a kid when the PT came out, but I was a full fledged fanatic by the time ROTS came out. It was the first movie I ever preordered tickets to, first movie I followed the news of, and generally consumed every ounce of pre-release hype and information for months leading up to its release. Nothing compared to the feeling I had when the 20th Century Fox logo came up. Pure excitement at the realization the long wait was finally over. Then, once the movie's over, I'm left with an incredibly odd feeling, that follows me for the rest of the day. I realized hey, that was a depressing movie. For me, ROTS was the movie that was very tonally different from what I expected, and what I drummed it up to be in my head. It bugged me for a while. Then, I decided to see it once or twice or five more times in theaters, and each time I saw it, I was able to get past the weird feeling I had about it upon first viewing. I realized "Hey, it's not anything what I imagined it to be like, but there are still some awesome qualities to it, and I should enjoy it for those instead." And if I were to do it all over again, I would still immerse myself in all that hype leading up to its release. Because to me, that's what made the whole experience so memorable. The joy of discovery, of geeking out over certain production decisions, wondering how something is going to look on screen, and generally just counting down the time till midnight is what I remember most. Whatever the movie's like, I'm sure I'll be able to see the good as well as the bad. I think it's wrong to say that excitement for a movie has to be married to making preconceived notions about it, and really those two should be separate. I'll feel free to speculate, sure. But I won't let my "vision" of what the movie will look like become what I want it or need it to look like. I think that's the difference between fans who get swept up in the hype and leave the theater pissed off and angry, and those who get swept up and are able to take the good with the bad and still enjoy the experience. Sure, feel free to laugh at how bad it was. But laugh, don't cry.

My point is that to deprive yourself of getting excited for a movie because you don't want to be disappointed if and when it sucks is a bit misguided. Be able to laugh about it, and as I've said see the good with the bad. For me at least, the whole experience is what lasts, not just the standalone merits of the two hours the movie runs. And of course, I'm only speaking about people who are major SW fans, and are deciding whether or not to go full blown into the hype or not. Of course for more casual fans, they probably don't want to participate in the hype regardless, because they frankly don't care enough about it. I mean, I was excited for Die Hard 4 and 5, but I didn't follow all the news about them. Honestly, I think some people get too invested in what they WANT Star Wars to be, and get mad when reality doesn't match that. The thing about SW is, the universe that the OT set up is so big a sandbox, I welcome a lot of different types of stories set in that galaxy, and I accept it all as Star Wars, even if the tone is very different than the OT. Now, if it's something I just don't care for, like a lot of the Clone Wars TV series, I just won't get too involved in it. But for stuff I still see merit in, I'll make sure I squeeze every bit of enjoyment out of it that I can. But I'll make sure to not get too upset and put it in its place if it sucks.

But lastly, speaking of what we have heard specifically, I actually do feel pretty good about what we have coming. Especially the last statement from Kathleen Kennedy saying how they're focusing on characters, and more practical effects than CGI. Those two things are why the OT makes for much better movies than the PT. I still like the story arc of the PT, but I feel like that enjoyment is better when reading a book set during the PT, rather than actually watching the movies. You still get the stories, but can imagine the visuals the way you want, and have way more room for characters to develop. The fact that the OT was way more about relationships between characters than it was about the plot, plus the fact that it just looked way better visually, makes it way more watchable and enjoyable as a standalone movie. So, if they are taking cues from the OT in that regard, I'm happy.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Probably untrue ... but .....

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Jedi News - Latest: Star Wars Episode VII Rumour: Ian McDiarmid Returning

Information passed to Team Jedi News via an unnamed source has informed us that Ian McDiarmid is set to return to the galaxy far, far away for a part in Episode VII.

The specifics of the role are unclear, but it seems likely that McDiarmid will be returning to his signature role of Palpatine. Whether as the original or a clone of, we are yet to discern.

Remember, until confirmed by Lucasfilm this us just a rumour. They are the ONLY people who can confirm this rumour report, or any other.

Stay tuned to Jedi News for official confirmation of this breaking story and all the latest news.

---------------------
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I hope to god they avoid anything like Dark Empire. Those were the worst EU stories ever! Dark Empire made everything Luke did in ESB/ROTJ meaningless. Unless they have the Emperor as a flashback, holo message, etc. it will be a total lazy writing copout to have a clone or something.


I forgot to add that in regards to Prequels vs. OT, the OT was not Oscar award winning material no matter how much we try to put them there. Most of us saw the OT as kids so we grew up loving those movies. The effects were beyond anything out at the time, so that helped skyrocket the movies at the box office. Most adults would have said the same thing about the OT as they are the Prequels now. In fact a lot of the reviews did praise the effects, but not the acting. I don't think the Prequels were high art, but I don't get how everyone thinks they are that much worse. I get certain things like Jar Jar, but really the acting in the OT wasn't that much greater.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I don't believe re-casting is an option. At least get the original actors into the first film and let them pass the torch to the new heroes. Then let them retire gracefully or kill them off to let the newbies avenge them
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I don't really see a reason to include the old actors for simply inclusion sake. I would like to see a fresh start and perhaps reference to them, but that's it. I'm afraid it will seem forced.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

See, I agree with Rodney and Sluis Van Shipyards, in regards to hype, speculation, etc. I honestly don't think getting yourself excited for a new product before it comes out contributes nearly as much as Solo is saying, or at least, it really shouldn't. Granted, I was just a kid when the PT came out, but I was a full fledged fanatic by the time ROTS came out. It was the first movie I ever preordered tickets to, first movie I followed the news of, and generally consumed every ounce of pre-release hype and information for months leading up to its release. Nothing compared to the feeling I had when the 20th Century Fox logo came up. Pure excitement at the realization the long wait was finally over. Then, once the movie's over, I'm left with an incredibly odd feeling, that follows me for the rest of the day. I realized hey, that was a depressing movie. For me, ROTS was the movie that was very tonally different from what I expected, and what I drummed it up to be in my head. It bugged me for a while. Then, I decided to see it once or twice or five more times in theaters, and each time I saw it, I was able to get past the weird feeling I had about it upon first viewing. I realized "Hey, it's not anything what I imagined it to be like, but there are still some awesome qualities to it, and I should enjoy it for those instead." And if I were to do it all over again, I would still immerse myself in all that hype leading up to its release. Because to me, that's what made the whole experience so memorable. The joy of discovery, of geeking out over certain production decisions, wondering how something is going to look on screen, and generally just counting down the time till midnight is what I remember most. Whatever the movie's like, I'm sure I'll be able to see the good as well as the bad. I think it's wrong to say that excitement for a movie has to be married to making preconceived notions about it, and really those two should be separate. I'll feel free to speculate, sure. But I won't let my "vision" of what the movie will look like become what I want it or need it to look like. I think that's the difference between fans who get swept up in the hype and leave the theater pissed off and angry, and those who get swept up and are able to take the good with the bad and still enjoy the experience. Sure, feel free to laugh at how bad it was. But laugh, don't cry.

To be clear, my main point on the issue of pre-release hype is twofold. First, with respect to the PT specifically, I think the pre-release hype had less impact than a lot of people think. The frequent response to criticism of the PT is "You're just bummed that it didn't live up to your ridiculous expectations." My point was that, while that likely had an effect in the short term, it doesn't explain the long-term disdain for the PT among a lot of fans. I think the period of reconciling one's expectations vs. what one actually gets is relatively short. Repeated viewings usually improve a film for folks. Even in the case of the PT, the seething hatred some felt has dwindled to "They sucked, but whatever," or a simple mental trick like "Yeah, well...they aren't REALLY Star Wars movies..." or whathaveyou. So, the dislike for the PT isn't about something as easily dismissed as "You're just disappointed that your expectations weren't met."

All that said, I do think that expectations can play a role -- a big one, actually -- in the immediate response to a film, particularly when they're the result of a conscious pre-release hype campaign. I actually think they tend to gin up expectations, but specifically to drive box office revenue. I tend to be pretty disdainful of a lot of the marketing techniques in Hollywood these days, including pre-release hype, because it often seems like it's being used as a substitute for producing an actual decent film. So, in that sense, I actually kinda hope Disney sticks with this whole "You can have news, but not hype" approach if only because, to me, it suggests that they may be more confident in the end product.

I hope to god they avoid anything like Dark Empire. Those were the worst EU stories ever! Dark Empire made everything Luke did in ESB/ROTJ meaningless. Unless they have the Emperor as a flashback, holo message, etc. it will be a total lazy writing copout to have a clone or something.

Agreed. That'd be idiotic. At the time, I thought Dark Empire 1 and 2 was ok, but in looking back on it...yeah, they're pretty bad. A clone Emperor? Yet another superweapon? Luke turning evil? Bleh. Spare me.

I forgot to add that in regards to Prequels vs. OT, the OT was not Oscar award winning material no matter how much we try to put them there.

Actually, technically speaking, yes they were. :)

Most of us saw the OT as kids so we grew up loving those movies. The effects were beyond anything out at the time, so that helped skyrocket the movies at the box office. Most adults would have said the same thing about the OT as they are the Prequels now. In fact a lot of the reviews did praise the effects, but not the acting. I don't think the Prequels were high art, but I don't get how everyone thinks they are that much worse. I get certain things like Jar Jar, but really the acting in the OT wasn't that much greater.

They're qualitatively different. The OT has a much better told, more tightly structured, and more entertaining story than the PT. The acting isn't that much better, nor is the dialogue, but the stories themselves are better as a whole, and they flow much better from one film to the next. They're better films from an overall storytelling perspective, not in the sense that people are giving Olivier-level performances or whathaveyou. Sure, SOME of that is down to nostalgia (e.g., why ROTJ is given a "pass" for the ewoks by a lot of fans), but at the very least, the first two films are terrific pieces of commercial entertainment. They're solid, cracking adventure stories. The PT, on the other hand, is all over the place and doesn't hold together nearly as well from a narrative perspective. I mean, if you like 'em all just the same, that's cool. I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, bro. I'm just saying that, from a storytelling perspective, the OT does a better job than the PT.

Certainly hope it's not true. I'd like an enemy other than the Emperor myself.

+1

I don't really see a reason to include the old actors for simply inclusion sake. I would like to see a fresh start and perhaps reference to them, but that's it. I'm afraid it will seem forced.

Hasn't it been confirmed that the "big three" are in this one? The real question is "In what capacity?" Most people expect Luke to be included as an Obi-Wan like figure, but beyond that, nobody really has any idea. If they're included in a way that feels natural and not "Look who's back everyone!" then I think it'll be fine. But too many "callbacks" and "returning guest stars" will be cheesy.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

In regards to the hype leading into Ep. VII, I'm sure all the folks here who were on the RPF while the prequels were being made can recall all the great threads we had following the production information and video the Pablo Hidalgo did from the set and how much fun we had trying to see props and costumes and sets. I think Disney would do well to nurture that kind of fan anticipation again.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Hasn't it been confirmed that the "big three" are in this one? The real question is "In what capacity?" Most people expect Luke to be included as an Obi-Wan like figure, but beyond that, nobody really has any idea. If they're included in a way that feels natural and not "Look who's back everyone!" then I think it'll be fine. But too many "callbacks" and "returning guest stars" will be cheesy.

"Confirmed" no, but it's a foregone conclusion at this point. And I think the plan for them is to be the torch passers, more supporting characters than anything else. But nobody's going to know for sure for another year or so probably.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

"Confirmed" no, but it's a foregone conclusion at this point. And I think the plan for them is to be the torch passers, more supporting characters than anything else. But nobody's going to know for sure for another year or so probably.

Ah, but even then there's the question of "in what capacity?" Luke's version is obvious, but how exactly would Han and Leia "pass the torch"? Would we just have them each training some hotshot new cadet or whatever, each getting a scene saying "Now it's your turn, junior!" or whathaveyou?

I'm not so sure that ALL of them will be passing the torch, so to speak, as much as simply playing a much diminished role (again, assuming they even add all three, if nothing's yet confirmed). But anyway, at this point, it sounds like we just don't have that much info one way or the other.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Couldn't the Emporer just appear as a force ghost? Maybe to a new apprentice he had in mind. After all he may have decided Vader had bungled things enough after losing the Death Star and letting the rebels escape from Hoth and it was time to start thinking about a replacement
 
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