Toadmeister
Sr Member
Breathe deeply and step away from the computer.... not what I was saying.
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Rogue One Vader costume
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
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tubachris85x
Master Member
I don't remember a gargantuan cod piece
Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
I don't seem to remember anything about a "codpiece" at all.
(That's going back to memories of many viewings as a child, mind you. In recent years I've seen and read more discussions about codpieces and their appropriate shapes/sizes than anyone probably should.) :lol
(That's going back to memories of many viewings as a child, mind you. In recent years I've seen and read more discussions about codpieces and their appropriate shapes/sizes than anyone probably should.) :lol
I want to say a couple things, and I won't quote cause I'm not picking fights.
BUT
I don't get how any time something happens with a new SW movie that we don't like, there's always the comment about Disney being evil and cuts corners and only wants to make money. Let's not forget that George Lucas is one of the richest people in the world who built his empire on toys, and the PT is an example of some of the laziest filmmaking ever.
I don't worship the corporate mouse, but everything points to them letting Lucasfilm operate on their own (just like Pixar and Marvel), and everyone working for Lucasfilm has great respect and care for the franchise. So while selling toys is, and always has been, a part of Star Wars, looking at some corners cut on a prop or costume and screaming that DISNEY IS RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVAR just doesn't hold water for me. The only thing they demand and enforce is delivery dates for their distribution schedule.
And on the topic of props and costumes, there's keep a few things in mind:
1. ANH was made with a small budget for what it set out to do, so obviously things were cheap and fast.
2. ESB and ROTJ had the chance to improve, but still had to look the same from with a cursory glance.
3. The OT was made in an era when no one outside of the editing room would be able to freeze a frame and blow up the image to see the details of a prop, so it was never even a consideration.
4. While TFA hired a fan group to make their astromechs, studios can't make a habit of this. Usually they hire propmasters who are known more for their ability to work within budget and time constraints for production, NOT for their devotion to a franchise.
We like to think that the current generation of propmasters are students of the old guard, and like us, they have studied these props and KNOW we can frame grab to look for details. But when you're on production and you have literally hundreds of props to build, and only a few weeks to do it, and you have no idea how they'll be shot or seen in-camera, it's near impossible to get exacting detail prop to prop to prop.
Some of us on here have spent thousands of dollars and years to get our lightsabers or DL-44s JUST right. A movie production never has that luxury.
BUT
I don't get how any time something happens with a new SW movie that we don't like, there's always the comment about Disney being evil and cuts corners and only wants to make money. Let's not forget that George Lucas is one of the richest people in the world who built his empire on toys, and the PT is an example of some of the laziest filmmaking ever.
I don't worship the corporate mouse, but everything points to them letting Lucasfilm operate on their own (just like Pixar and Marvel), and everyone working for Lucasfilm has great respect and care for the franchise. So while selling toys is, and always has been, a part of Star Wars, looking at some corners cut on a prop or costume and screaming that DISNEY IS RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVAR just doesn't hold water for me. The only thing they demand and enforce is delivery dates for their distribution schedule.
And on the topic of props and costumes, there's keep a few things in mind:
1. ANH was made with a small budget for what it set out to do, so obviously things were cheap and fast.
2. ESB and ROTJ had the chance to improve, but still had to look the same from with a cursory glance.
3. The OT was made in an era when no one outside of the editing room would be able to freeze a frame and blow up the image to see the details of a prop, so it was never even a consideration.
4. While TFA hired a fan group to make their astromechs, studios can't make a habit of this. Usually they hire propmasters who are known more for their ability to work within budget and time constraints for production, NOT for their devotion to a franchise.
We like to think that the current generation of propmasters are students of the old guard, and like us, they have studied these props and KNOW we can frame grab to look for details. But when you're on production and you have literally hundreds of props to build, and only a few weeks to do it, and you have no idea how they'll be shot or seen in-camera, it's near impossible to get exacting detail prop to prop to prop.
Some of us on here have spent thousands of dollars and years to get our lightsabers or DL-44s JUST right. A movie production never has that luxury.
doctorDWwho
Sr Member
Well said ^^
The thing that gave the Star Wars universe realism to a certain extent was it's "lived in appearance". It was designed to look used, dirty and imperfect.
When you start to make everything idealized and perfect you start to loose some of that.
It's also funny to read "well it has to look good on the big screen" comments all the time. Umm where do you think those of us saw it back in 1977, 1980 and 1983 watched it? And back then we had some really big 70mm screens, not like todays dumpy multiplex's. I will tell you one thing, nobody was too concerned with how clean Vaders helmet or costume looked.
All in all at least his helmet looks decent, unlike the atrocity that was done to the stormtrooper helmet.
When you start to make everything idealized and perfect you start to loose some of that.
It's also funny to read "well it has to look good on the big screen" comments all the time. Umm where do you think those of us saw it back in 1977, 1980 and 1983 watched it? And back then we had some really big 70mm screens, not like todays dumpy multiplex's. I will tell you one thing, nobody was too concerned with how clean Vaders helmet or costume looked.
All in all at least his helmet looks decent, unlike the atrocity that was done to the stormtrooper helmet.
Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
Do you mean to suggest that the movie theater experience (projectors, screens, viewing environment) was better 40 years ago? It sounds like that's what you're suggesting.
mvmagic
Well-Known Member
Not to mention that these films are really not made for us. Us in this context being prop enthusiasts as we represent such a tiny bit of the movie going public. Vast majority-almost everyone-just dont see any difference be it Vader or Stormies. My friend is a huge SW fan and he never noticed ANY difference between Vaders (thats including ROTS). And now he (jokingly) blames me for ruining his SW experience because now he cant un-see that Vader is wonky and the paint job two-tone in the OT. We just look at things differently. I have always been very technically oriented and years ago my artsy director friend said I am missing all fine finesse as I am more concerned on how a set was built or where did they put the lights or what kind of crane they used. Well she didnt complain later when I handled FX on her feature and blew a kitchen up for a fantasy sequence...
I have to be honest and say I am so excited to see Vader back on the big screen that I really dont care how accurate his helmet or costume are. Yes I would like them to be spot-on ANH but at least we have him in the movie! And like Seth there said, making props for a movie-even a SW movie-is a job for those people and they have a lot of stuff to take care off in a huge production and the amount of time and research we can afford, they just cant. But hey, if he is different, thats a good excuse to have a 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th Vader helmet on your shelf...
I have to be honest and say I am so excited to see Vader back on the big screen that I really dont care how accurate his helmet or costume are. Yes I would like them to be spot-on ANH but at least we have him in the movie! And like Seth there said, making props for a movie-even a SW movie-is a job for those people and they have a lot of stuff to take care off in a huge production and the amount of time and research we can afford, they just cant. But hey, if he is different, thats a good excuse to have a 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th Vader helmet on your shelf...
Toadmeister
Sr Member
Personally I think they were better in some respects, or at least different. I think audio (stereo, surround sound) has improved however.
Large screens, analog 70mm was pretty bitchin' in the day.
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Fener
Active Member
thanks, I can see the robe over the armor now! :thumbsup
cboath
Master Member
Not to mention, LFL is it's own company. It's owned by disney. My company here is owned by someone as well. We make our own things and set our own budgets, etc. The parent company is micromanaging us left and right. At the end of the year, they sit down with the president and if they've screwed up royally, they're gone, if not, they're not, etc. LFL sets the budget and decides what they're doing for costumes, etc.
I guarantee you, LFL did not say we wanna do a 100% accurate ANH vader suit and that Disney shot it down as too ugly. IF that was the reason, the call was made in-house at LFL.
Personally, i get a chuckle out of the 'the original artisans poured their blood, sweat and tears into these....' as if the current crop aren't. Or moreso, that the original artisans had that kind of time. They didn't. The original was done cheap AND quick as well. Hence running paint blobs on trooper costumes for example. For that matter, that and things like glue blobs can be seen on PT props as well.
But, Disney didn't force vader suit changes or trooper suit changes. They were either LFL or director changes. Bank it.
I guarantee you, LFL did not say we wanna do a 100% accurate ANH vader suit and that Disney shot it down as too ugly. IF that was the reason, the call was made in-house at LFL.
Personally, i get a chuckle out of the 'the original artisans poured their blood, sweat and tears into these....' as if the current crop aren't. Or moreso, that the original artisans had that kind of time. They didn't. The original was done cheap AND quick as well. Hence running paint blobs on trooper costumes for example. For that matter, that and things like glue blobs can be seen on PT props as well.
But, Disney didn't force vader suit changes or trooper suit changes. They were either LFL or director changes. Bank it.
If he isn't saying it then I most certainly will :darnkids I will qualify my observations with the usual "your mileage may vary" but my experience at local theaters, even "THX" theaters, is that they run bulbs at low brightness, audio is poorly calibrated, and projectors aren't aligned properly creating geometric distortion in the projected image. Stadium seating is fantastic I'll give you that but I rarely go to the movies any more as I have a better set-up at home.
Seeing movies like Star Wars or 2001: A Space Odyssey on a huge curved 70mm screen is an amazing experience that was generally more available in the past (there were at least three here in Colorado Springs as well as two other 70mm flat screens all of which are long gone -- and if you were in Denver the choices were even greater).
Movie theaters today are more like large TVs than anything, IMO, and a lot of that has to do with the delivery and display systems. It is what it is, and is what the business has evolved into. Was it better back then? In my opinion, yes, but your mileage may vary.
Also, yes, there are optics that are more refined and versatile, there are film stocks that are finer grained, but this nonsense about how resolution is somehow superior in film making today needs to stop. What has changed is our ability to reproduce the source material. Where HD, UHD, HDR, etc are important is that they are for the consumer market and they get us incrementally closer to reproducing the source material -- the film itself. They have NOTHING to do with how films are actually produced for theatrical release. Digital film equipment in true 4K notwithstanding -- 4K is lower rez than 35mm film, which is estimated to be around 6K, there are higher resolution digital sensors but there is so much cropping and compression between what ends up "in can" vs the final product of either format it's crazy. Digital vs film as a whole different argument and I don't want to go there.
Back on topic -- @ mvmagic -- an excuse for another Vader helmet in my collection? I like the way you think ;-)
Dave
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Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
I think an ideally-calibrated 70mm image is different from what most people would have experienced back in the day, but as this isn't a home theater or cinema forum I'll leave it at that
As far as this Vader, I don't think I'll need to have one of these helmets in my collection, but I reserve the right to change my mind at any time :lol Will be cool to see a lineup of all variations, though.
As far as this Vader, I don't think I'll need to have one of these helmets in my collection, but I reserve the right to change my mind at any time :lol Will be cool to see a lineup of all variations, though.
I'm just saying, like I did for the R1 Stormy helmet, why are we complaining about differences in costume designs....IT JUST MEANS WE GET TO BUY A NEW PIECE FOR OUR COLLECTIONS.
ggriffaw
Sr Member
I agree the major difference in resolution now is the capabilities at home. It took several years before ANH was available on VHS at all. There wasn't anything at the resolution of Blu ray available in the home back then.
It is pretty difficult to pick out fine details when the characters are in motion on the big screen whether it is 1977 or 2016.
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It is pretty difficult to pick out fine details when the characters are in motion on the big screen whether it is 1977 or 2016.
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True, I still may give it a shot, once we get more pics.... I feel like with the material the PCR helmet is made from, it can be shaped, and messed with a bit.
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