Aliens Pulse Rife Questions

[bigbisont]

There's something i'm a little lost on. the parts I see for pulse rifle's. the barrel vent and the front piece that holds the barrel. there made separate. but in this picture it looks to be one piece to me. now I know there were a few different one's made. but if everyone wants hero. why the two separate parts?


View attachment 462484

I ran into this very recently on my own build and that is why I had to scratch build my own. Two reasons I think (and none factor screen accuracy. As you mentioned, they are 1-piece on film on ALL versions of the rifle):

1-That is how SD studios did it. They were among the first doing the high quality replica parts, so that sort of became the 'norm' as that is what people first saw available and came to expect.

2- Easier to produce from the seller's standpoint to account for variety of barrel diameters people use. Bear with me here, this is a much longer explanation.
The screen accurate 'hero" barrels were the regular Thompson barrels with "restrictors" screwed on the end. These restrictors allowed the blanks to fire. Blank firing guns need smaller openings to keep the backpressure high enough to cycle rounds (the load isnt as 'hot' as a live round).

In this pic, you can see where the restrictor is attached and acts as the 'extension' of the barrel. All the live fire hero's had this. This restrictor is actually 3/4" around and the front of the barrel is a bit thicker than the rest of the barrel. Look close at many screen caps and you really start to notice them.




So anyways, back to the 2-piece vent. As a replica, almost no one does this extension! Certainly no one makes a 3/4" tube as the barrel. They go with something more idealized to their own opinion/capabilities and, as such, there is virtually no consistency in what people are using. There are many diameter barrels out there.


As a producer/seller of barrel vents, you can sell a 2-piece product more easily. You can sell the "vent only" part (absent the triangle) to literally anyone doing any build. People using a barrel that does not fit the front triangle portion of what you created are not excluded from buying the vent back end.

If you make it one piece, as is screen accurate, you as a seller must make vents/front triangle combos that are custom to each build with the correct sized barrel fitment for THAT build. You either make every single vent assembly "made to order" or you make a dozen different size barrel fitments, some of which may not ever sell.

Plus it is easier to weld the sling ring and barrel holder to the front triangle when it is its own part rather than one piece.


For additional info on "hero" pulse rifles and their differences, I am researching this very topic pretty heavily on the AL. Check this thread and scroll down to see the 5 variants that are confirmed. I am still working through screen caps to determine how many more there may have been.
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15202


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[Sean]

I ran into this very recently on my own build and that is why I had to scratch build my own. Two reasons I think (and none factor screen accuracy. As you mentioned, they are 1-piece on film on ALL versions of the rifle):

1-That is how SD studios did it. They were among the first doing the high quality replica parts, so that sort of became the 'norm' as that is what people first saw available and came to expect.

2- Easier to produce from the seller's standpoint to account for variety of barrel diameters people use. Bear with me here, this is a much longer explanation.
The screen accurate 'hero" barrels were the regular Thompson barrels with "restrictors" screwed on the end. These restrictors allowed the blanks to fire. Blank firing guns need smaller openings to keep the backpressure high enough to cycle rounds (the load isnt as 'hot' as a live round).

In this pic, you can see where the restrictor is attached and acts as the 'extension' of the barrel. All the live fire hero's had this. This restrictor is actually 3/4" around and the front of the barrel is a bit thicker than the rest of the barrel. Look close at many screen caps and you really start to notice them.

View attachment 462485


So anyways, back to the 2-piece vent. As a replica, almost no one does this extension! Certainly no one makes a 3/4" pipe as the barrel. They go with something more idealized and easier to manage, and there is virtually no consistency in what people are using.


As a producer/seller of barrel vents, you can sell a 2-piece product more easily. You can sell the "vent only" part (absent the triangle) to literally anyone doing any build. People using a barrel that does not fit the front triangle portion of what you created are not excluded from buying the vent back end.

If you make it one piece, as is screen accurate, you as a seller must make vents/front triangle combos that are custom to each build with the correct sized barrel fitment for THAT build. You either make every single vent assembly "made to order" or you make a dozen different size barrel fitments, some of which may not ever sell.

Plus it is easier to weld the sling ring and barrel holder to the front triangle when it is its own part rather than one piece.


For additional info on "hero" pulse rifles and their differences, I am researching this very topic pretty heavily on the AL. Check this thread and scroll down to see the 5 variants that are confirmed. I am still working through screen caps to determine how many more there may have been.
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15202


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thank you very much for your detailed reply bigbisont. I was just looking at that this morning. with the extension and research as well. with your research may i ask. do you think the extension was an existing part? being that it has wrench slots on It.

 

[bigbisont]

thank you very much for your detailed reply bigbisont. I was just looking at that this morning. with the extension and research as well. with your research may i ask. do you think the extension was an existing part? being that it has wrench slots on It.

From what I have gathered, and don't quote me as absolute because I have never had it confirmed, they were probably an 'existing part' in the sense that these restrictors are common for gunsmiths who do this type of work and are generic items that get fitted/adapted to fit real weapons. But I don't think it is an 'existing part' in the way we think of re-purposed "found items". I have seen pictures of how other restrictors have been threaded to other weapons in order to make them fire blanks. This job was probably no different as a semi custom mod to make it look good on the pulse.

 

[Sean]

From what I have gathered, and don't quote me as absolute because I have never had it confirmed, they were probably an 'existing part' in the sense that these restrictors are common for gunsmiths who do this type of work and are generic items that get fitted/adapted to fit real weapons. But I don't think it is an 'existing part' in the way we think of re-purposed "found items". I have seen pictures of how other restrictors have been threaded to other weapons in order to make them fire blanks. This job was probably no different as a semi custom mod to make it look good on the pulse.

that's cool. i would like to find something with those wrench slots the same size. time to go foraging...thanks man...:thumbsup

 

[gyoung2993]

the actual PR that Ripley has is a 10 vent hole ( barrel vent ) , not the 8...the 8 is wrong....it was used for other prop PR's in the movie, but the 10 vent is the accurate version of Hicks and Ripley....the 8 hole vent had to have 2 pieces, the 10 vent ...is a whole unit....for the actual real Thompson barrel

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the 8 hole barrel vent were used on other prop PR's in the movie

 

[Sean]

still working on a diagram with a friend. second rendition. size is probably of. would like to ad flaps on the side's for the top of the cage. will try to refine this the best i can with the help of friends..

 

[bigbisont]

the actual PR that Ripley has is a 10 vent hole ( barrel vent ) , not the 8...the 8 is wrong....it was used for other prop PR's in the movie, but the 10 vent is the accurate version of Hicks and Ripley....the 8 hole vent had to have 2 pieces, the 10 vent ...is a whole unit....for the actual real Thompson barrel

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the 8 hole barrel vent were used on other prop PR's in the movie

Sorry, this may not even be how you intended it, but the phrasing is driving me nuts here. The '8-hole' is not "wrong". 8-Hole vents outnumber the 10-hole vents at least a 5 to 1 for the live fire 'real thompsons'. Sure, the 10-hole got the clearest screen time from the 'training' scene, but it is not any more 'correct' than the numerous 8-hole vents that also had real Thompson barrels that also fired.


Vaz with one of the many 'real' Thompson barrel 'hero' 8-hole vents.


As for the common argument I hear about the 10-hole being the one true ideal hero, I just want to point out it is not without its own "inaccurate" flaws. None of the 2 issues I am about to highlight are big deals by any stretch, but still it is funny that these 'non-ideal' features are never carried over when people build their 10-hole pulses. Even the mighty 10-hole is not perfect.

-First off, it has no sling point on the vent. Every other stunt and hero rifle has a sling ring welded on the front, but not the 10-hole. The sling is just clipped through the front barrel vent hole.


-Second, the front plate on the mag portion of the shroud is so tall and wide that it 'wraps'/gets bent around the grenade launcher trigger assembly.


-As for the argument that "It was Ripley's/ It was Hicks'" rifle, so is therefore cooler: It was everyone's! Frost had it in the armory, Apone carried it entering the colony, Hudson has it during the Burke interrogation/mini-trial. Hicks and Ripley had their time with it. Like the other rifles, it got passed around like a joint at a Phish concert!

Sorry again, not saying that is what you (or anyone else) were about to counter with any of those arguments, but they are fun facts I like to bring up!



As for the 8 hole vents being 2-pieces, why is it that you say they "had to have" 2 pieces? I see a ridge on the metal in the gap that I can't help but interpret as being a continuation of the single assembly. The gap was cut back lower here to remove the rounded edge, but material is still there between them.

Plus it just makes sense as a 1-piece construction can have more mount points to the SPAS and provide overall stability. The is a LOT of weight on that forward sling point and there is no advantage to reducing its footprint but making the front triangle separate from the vent.

At least those are my thoughts/findings. Of course anyone is free to argue against them.

 

[gyoung2993]

Im not into arguing or debates, never been my thing...I am happy with my conclusion of my builds !!! YOU have good research....and I think there were wanting all accurate info , as much as you can get, however if I am not mistaken , I believe there, were ONLY 3 different live fire versions , and they are all different !!!....soooo that being said , who is right , who is wrong....NO ONE !!! those live fire versions did different things....if I am not mistaken , there was only 1 full live fire version, THOMPSON AND SPAS , others were either Thompson firing with dummy grenade launcher ....then the other was Spas 12 grenade launcher and Dummy Thompson....been years since I read it !!! No one is 100 percent right, plus changes were made between Aliens 3 and Aliens 4 movies ...................we all can debate...all we want....this has been done countless times.....no one can prove everything....I gave up along time ago trying....too much changes...paint colors ....etc....so , IMO...no gun was made identical period

 

[bigbisont]

Agreed, and it was not my intent to start an argument. I am long winded and not a great writer (bad combo on a forum, eh?) so I can see how the "fun facts" don't come across as such. Sorry. I also certainly didn't mean to imply anything about your build. Along those lines, I guess part of why I felt I had to chime in and defend the 8-hole is because that is what my own build was.

Anyways, as for the number of rifles made (and specifically how many of them were live fire heroes) I am waist deep in research on this very subject (hence all the handy images). I linked the AL thread focusing on this a few posts up (but here it is again http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15202) and I do believe it has accurate info. You are, of course, completely correct that no 2 pulses were identical and no one is arguing that. Because no 2 were the same you can actually start to sort them out. I also agree many of the heroes were live fire thompsons without 870s inside the cages (aka, dummy grenade launchers) but there were quite a few live fire Thompsons in those builds.

The good news for Pulse Builders is that "Screen accurate" is a very wide net and there is a TON of wiggle room.

 

[gyoung2993]

Agreed....there has never been a accurate account on the ....3 were known to be for a fact....1 is in the London prop community, another is in a possession of a private collector, the other is believed ( no facts to base it on ) , but is to be believed to be in the possession of Cameron himself , last I heard 5 years ago. I would think , that for the film itself, more than 3 would be made, but that is not fact either....so , it is definitely only known by the makers of the original props and guns themselves...that could one day release that info....I wasn't meaning the 8 hole is wrong...as far as the scene with Ripley and Hicks was a 10 in the movie , but the 8 hole vent in your picture , clearly shows the 8 hole was a complete piece, which I stand corrected, never seen the photo of this closeup before...if that is accurate than we all were wrong for years, because of not muchinfo, was released about the PR years ago...so speculating came into play....I imagine as the years pass , there will be even more , helpful info might come around...at least I hope so...would love to hear from the actual makers of those original designed M41-A pulse rifles

 

[Sean]

love all this info going on here! :thumbsup alright. through up those WIP plans and ran out the door this morning headed to work. forgot one big thing. to thank the guys that are helping in this.

I want to thank obiwan kowalski for providing the original diagram from which this was all started. and his permission to work with and share when they are completed.

I want to thank gyoung2923 for being so patent with me for all the question's I asked. and giving measurements off of his real spas cage. thanks man.
and I also would like to give a big thank you to cylonknight. that is my friend that's actually doing all the digital stuff. thanks john...

now back to your regularly scheduled programming.:thumbsup

 

[gyoung2993]

love all this info going on here! :thumbsup alright. through up those WIP plans and ran out the door this morning headed to work. forgot one big thing. to thank the guys that are helping in this.

I want to thank obiwan kowalski for providing the original diagram from which this was all started. and his permission to work with and share when they are completed.

I want to thank gyoung2923 for being so patent with me for all the question's I asked. and giving measurements off of his real spas cage. thanks man.
and I also would like to give a big thank you to cylonknight. that is my friend that's actually doing all the digital stuff. thanks john...

now back to your regularly scheduled programming.:thumbsup

That's very nice sir , you are welcome , it was my pleasure

 

[The5thElement]

Sorry if this is considered necroposting.

Can anyone please recommend options to purchase or make a vented barrel assembly to fit a SpatCave Spulse Rifle. The solid resin one would bother me I think.

I have considered 3D printing the assembly if there is a suitable file around...would have to send this out though as I don't have a printer as yet.

 

[gyoung2993]

Sorry if this is considered necroposting.

Can anyone please recommend options to purchase or make a vented barrel assembly to fit a SpatCave Spulse Rifle. The solid resin one would bother me I think.

I have considered 3D printing the assembly if there is a suitable file around...would have to send this out though as I don't have a printer as yet.

EBAY...type in ...Aliens pulse rifle

 

[The5thElement]

EBAY...type in ...Aliens pulse rifle

Yep did that. The SD shroud and support triangle (plus shipping to Australia) are too expensive unfortunately.

Guess I will just model it myself based off the resin component and get it printed.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

You should take a look at my spulse build

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=174835

 

[The5thElement]

You should take a look at my spulse build

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=174835

I've already read it Kevin ...big fan of all your work on here.

Styrene is certainly an option. Not sure how to bend it...any tips?

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

 

[sanguish64]

Do you mind sharing those measurements?