Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

Not read the novel yet but that does help with so much!!! Thanks for the post Jeyl. Needs somebody from here to comb it properly for clues!!!
There is no doubt both JJ and Kasdan were really under the cosh to get the script done. They effectively lost nine months which had a serve impact on how this could have gone if they had a little more time. If you read The Art of SWTFA you'll realise how much preproduction work had already gone into it before they took over the writing duties and there were other significant factors that effected the completed script. I have a strong feeling that IF they release an extended DVD edition either 12 or 18 months from now, an injection of missing dialogue and scenes will smooth over a lot of the bumps. And a clever person could shoot some additional footage to fill in missing bits with the existing cast!
Given the mind control and brain washing option that seems so powerful an element in TFA there are some huge opportunities to do things with characters that could equal TESB in EVIII. I've read some killer theories that would nail plenty of things.
The most obvious one is DID Ren and the Knights kill everyone at the new Jedi temple? And where did all those other Jedi originate from that Luke trained? Its does makes it more unlikely there are just Rey and Luke in the universe and what power exists at the First Jedi Temple (on Skellig ) to shield Luke from being found by Snoke ? And if it did shield him so successfully from Snoke and Rey was his daughter ,why didn't he keep her with him? The more I read about the making of TFA the more I realise that the total character and story arc is as open as ANH was. Kasdan has already admitted that he and JJ had only the very roughest of ideas where the rest of the story will go and ,even whilst making TFA they had to make changes to allow where Rhian Johnson wants to take EPVIII

annanake said:

instead of being silent Luke should have taken the saber and then waved Rey off with a good ol' "to old to begin the training !"

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At this point given the high level of darkside turning Skywalkers (what like 50%? despite expert mentoring) that end up screwing the entire galaxy to the point of genocide, maybe he should have ended her right there. LOL

This has become a world of instant gratification. No one seems to be able to wait for anything, much less the next episode in a franchise. All these verbal tantrums weary me. Luckily, the histrionics and weeping will do no one any good. You just have to wait until the next episode in our on-going story ... Then you can start trashing that one before it even comes out!

So I've seen the movie 4 times, and I've let the ideas sit and form into actual thoughts, and I think I'm ready to give a full review of this movie. I also watched the OT before and after the movie to see how TFA would fit in with those.

First of all, before I went to TFA I watched the OT which played into the hype that was my gigantic expectations. I knew before going into the movie that my expectations were insurmountable. I was looking for a movie that would best ESB, and reflecting on that I've realized that that will never happen. The OT IS movie-magic. While the movies are great and entertaining, the level of nostalgia that goes along with those movies makes many of us forget that ANH is slow and almost boring in some scenes, and ROTJ has a bunch of teddy-bears fighting trained military troopers... and WINNING. While the OT is amazing in every sense of the word, they have plenty of faults, but most of us just look past them because rewatching those movies makes us relive a bright spot in our childhood. But we are not children anymore and we've learned to overthink things and be cynical.

My first viewing of TFA had me chuckling a handful of times, and really took me out of reality for over 2 hours. When I left the theater I couldn't help but to realize that I was not experiencing the high that I did as a child. It took me a while to realize that I hadn't felt that high SINCE I was a child. It was a good, entertaining movie, but nothing was going to meet the expectations I had built up for the past few years. Regardless, I couldn't stop thinking about certain aspects of the movie that REALLY caught my attention. There were too many strong points that I couldn't get out of my head. I knew I had to see the movie again to fully process it, and watch it with my expectations back at a normal level. Luckily, I had tickets to the 1pm showing the next day. The second viewing really hit home for me. After watching it a second time I realized that TFA really does hang with the OT. TFA has plenty of flaws, and things I wasn't crazy about, but I could say the same thing about ANH and ROTJ once I get past the nostalgia. Each time I've gone into the theater and watched this movie, I've come out thinking of it more and more as an original Star Wars style movie. And the more I think about the characters, central themes, and the shots... the more I like it.

Again, there were certain things that I wasn't crazy about in the movie, but I didn't find any of these impossible to get past:
The pace was a bit too fast. It was almost like nega-ANH. While some scenes in ANH linger too long and take a bit too much time to develop, there were moments in TFA that didn't have enough time to breathe. ie: Chewie mourning. Rey's solitude on Jakku, planning the attack against Starkiller base.
The humor got to be a bit too much in some spots, or it was over the top. I didn't dislike Finn, but there were a couple times where his humor was just too much. The "boyfriend, cute boyfriend" "droid please" and "I'm in charge" moments just seemed like humor that didn't quite land as Star Wars-esque humor. John Boyega did an awesome job, but I think those moments could be counted against the script.
The Rathtar scene felt off. The Rathtars themselves didn't feel like Star Wars type creatures to me, and the character design for the two gangs just didn't seem to fit either. One of the big things that really kept that scene going for me was Ford as classic Han Solo. His lines and his humor was on point, and it may have even saved that scene for me.
To a lesser extent I had some minor issues with the Starkiller base and some of the aspects of ANH. I know there are a lot of people fired up about those things, and I wasn't a huge fan of those two points, but I understand why they were in this movie and what the point was. I know J.J. and Kasdan had a lot of people to try and impress... the biggest demographic being us cynical adults looking for that same nostalgia high we get from watching the OT. They had to hit notes that made this movie feel like Star Wars and I feel like they did that fairly well.
I'm not huge on Snoke being CGI. I feel like you could recreate that sort of look with prosthetics and good make up. We'll see how he looks when they show him in person, but right now I can't say I'm a big fan of the direction they took with him.

Some of the high points that I STILL cannot get out of my head:
I LOVED Kylo Ren. I thought his struggle trying to actually push out the light was really original. He felt like a really multi-dimensional villain, and I think his struggle will have lasting consequences throughout the next 2 movies. His power struggle and differing views with Hux is going to be another interesting thing to watch develop. I also loved how Kylo used some of the lines that Anakin used in the PT. It took me a while to catch that, but once I did it really hit home for me.
BB-8 was really cool and I really liked the way they used him for humor. While I'm not a C3PO fan, I look forward to seeing more R2 and BB.
This was BY FAR the best acted Star Wars in the history of Star Wars. All of the actors killed it in this movie. I love the OT, but the acting was never mind-blowing in those movies. You can knock J.J., but he really managed to bring out the cast's potential for this film.
This was also one of the most gorgeous Star Wars that has been shot. The shots managed to really capture the beauty of the sets and props they were working with without becoming too visually cluttered, like some of the scenes in the PT.
This movie made me excited for Star Wars again. I left the theater after the first viewing really looking forward to Ep8. I never got that feeling from the PT. I know there were some people that did, but the PT never had me really looking forward to what was going to happen next. After Ep2 I realized that the Vader transition was not going to be what I had hoped it would be.
This movie actually lets the audience assume things, which I thought was great. This movie treats people like adults and gives you the opportunity to assume a pilot makes it off of a planet, If you need to be spoon-fed every little detail in a film, you probably won't like TFA because it's too complex for you. Sorry, but I thought that was a great aspect and very derivative of the OT.

Overall, I think TFA does a lot of things right, and the flaws that it does have can be overlooked if you're willing to see the flaws in the previous installments. This is also a movie that SHOULD be seen a second time. After all of the hype people have put on this movie (ourselves included), it's pretty easy to see that the expectations could have never been met. Once you know what to expect out of this movie, the second viewing really seems to excel. It's almost like it outdoes itself and gets better and better the more you watch it... no joke. This is not a cinematic masterpiece, but it sets the stage for some REALLY awesome movies, and it really brings Star Wars back to life. The more I think about this movie, the more I think it hangs right in there with ROTJ. ANH and ESB will always be unbeatable for me, but I think this movie gets pretty close to edging out ROTJ. It at least keeps up with it.

Very cool Josh,...my thoughts also.....got to see it again!!

Q&A with JJ & LK


J

I'm checking it out again tomorrow... and will lock my thoughts... but one thing that has occurred to me as far as this whole new trilogy on a story level goes...

Everyone is calling it that Rey is Luke's daughter... which seems too predictable.... Others say Rey is Obi Wan's descendant, just cuz Luke is too obvious.

I'm going to lock down Obi Wan's granddaughter as my prediction, and here's why...

Without even taking the Prequels into the large scope of the story, Darth Vader was Obi Wan's apprentice... He turned on Kenobi and killed all the Jedi. They finally meet again in the Death Star and fight to the death. Kenobie loses/wins.

Kenobi has told Luke "I was ONCE a Jedi knight, the same as your father..." I'm going to take this as "I've been allowed to procreate for a while now... and there are some sweet ladies here on Tatooine".

So as far as story goes... If in the final battle it is Rey vs. Fin, you are watching the Grandson of Anakin Skywalker fighting the granddaughter of Ben Kenobi... Kylo's namesake. REMATCH.

That is also why there is apparently a line from Ewan McGreggor in Rey's flashback... Cuz he force ghosted her as a young girl...

Luke found Ben's daughter and took to training her... but when Kylo went mad, he protected her above all the others, and hid her away, on a similair planet to which she was born.

And when you do the side stories... you will get a young Ben Kenobi Story that fills all the story of how Rey came to be...

So that is my theory... sorry if it's been said a million times in these millions of threads.

NeoRutty said:

I'm checking it out again tomorrow... and will lock my thoughts... but one thing that has occurred to me as far as this whole new trilogy on a story level goes...

Everyone is calling it that Rey is Luke's daughter... which seems too predictable.... Others say Rey is Obi Wan's descendant, just cuz Luke is too obvious.

I'm going to lock down Obi Wan's granddaughter as my prediction, and here's why...

Without even taking the Prequels into the large scope of the story, Darth Vader was Obi Wan's apprentice... He turned on Kenobi and killed all the Jedi. They finally meet again in the Death Star and fight to the death. Kenobie loses/wins.

Kenobi has told Luke "I was ONCE a Jedi knight, the same as your father..." I'm going to take this as "I've been allowed to procreate for a while now... and there are some sweet ladies here on Tatooine".

So as far as story goes... If in the final battle it is Rey vs. Fin, you are watching the Grandson of Anakin Skywalker fighting the granddaughter of Ben Kenobi... Kylo's namesake. REMATCH.

That is also why there is apparently a line from Ewan McGreggor in Rey's flashback... Cuz he force ghosted her as a young girl...

Luke found Ben's daughter and took to training her... but when Kylo went mad, he protected her above all the others, and hid her away, on a similair planet to which she was born.

And when you do the side stories... you will get a young Ben Kenobi Story that fills all the story of how Rey came to be...

So that is my theory... sorry if it's been said a million times in these millions of threads.

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prediction. Kenobi hooked up with Duchess Satine's sister. During the Obi-wan standalone movie where he goes back to Mandalore

Seriously?? We couldn't have a handful of different threads on TFA? Was that really hurting anyone?! Now all we have is this 62-page monstrosity, and I've totally lost my place in those other threads...including THIS one! I was on page 31 out of 33 or 34 in this thread, and now I have no idea how to pick up where I left off in here in this thread, and in a couple of the other threads I was frequenting. I miss the old RPF, when people weren't so uptight.

Good grief.

The Wook

astroboy said:

prediction. Kenobi hooked up with Duchess Satine's sister. During the Obi-wan standalone movie where he goes back to Mandalore

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Or one of the handmaidens since she looks so much like Padme.

I still think she's Luke's, though, with a woman who was force sensitive, to explain why she's more skilled than Little Ben. And because she's got all of Anakin's flying and mechanical abilities.

Guri said:

Or one of the handmaidens since she looks so much like Padme.

I still think she's Luke's, though, with a woman who was force sensitive, to explain why she's more skilled than Little Ben. And because she's got all of Anakin's flying and mechanical abilities.

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I'll take ANYTHING that admits the clone wars era still exists

NeoRutty said:

Everyone is calling it that Rey is Luke's daughter... which seems too predictable.... Others say Rey is Obi Wan's descendant, just cuz Luke is too obvious.

I'm going to lock down Obi Wan's granddaughter as my prediction

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I think its Luke's daughter because of the second teaser

"My Father has it,...I have it,....My Sister has it,....You have that power too"........"Someone I have no relation to....but I'll tell you about my family"

Could be a red herring,....but we will have to wait....or is Luke talking to young Ben

J

The Wook said:

Seriously?? We couldn't have a handful of different threads on TFA? Was that really hurting anyone?! Now all we have is this 62-page monstrosity, and I've totally lost my place in those other threads...including THIS one! I was on page 31 out of 33 or 34 in this thread, and now I have no idea how to pick up where I left off in here in this thread, and in a couple of the other threads I was frequenting. I miss the old RPF, when people weren't so uptight.

Good grief.

The Wook

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They should have put the kibosh on those other threads right away, really would have made life easier.

Bryancd said:

They should have put the kibosh on those other threads right away, really would have made life easier.

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I'll concede that would be preferable to the situation we have now. But still, I am not a fan of monster threads like this. There was nothing wrong with having a few threads on the movie. Tom's thread was spawned organically, due to the TFA-Disney/LFL kissass lovefest that this thread was early on, and there was no reason to merge it.

Obviously, I was not in favor of everyone starting their own thread to post their review of the film--I even posted my disapproval of that when one guy tried that--but it wasn't happening en masse. We policed the situation ourselves, and everything was cool. Now I don't know where anything is that I was reading. Very frustrating.

The Wook

astroboy said:

I'll take ANYTHING that admits the clone wars era still exists

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Although it doesn't confirm the clone wars show as canon, they did mention or bicker about the use of clones again opposed to the storm troopers. I caught that much. Liked the tip of the hat towards the clone wars.

One thread is better, the first one was made under the misconception that everyone was only saying good things about the film.

A lot of people were, but others weren't.

Still at least people have stopped moaning about the film and are now moaning about the threads that used to moan about the film.

NeoRutty said:

...
Kenobi has told Luke "I was ONCE a Jedi knight, the same as your father..." I'm going to take this as "I've been allowed to procreate for a while now... and there are some sweet ladies here on Tatooine".
...

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That would explain why Kenobi lives in that single room apartment/rat hole he calls a home. May have been the alimony payments ...
and "ladies" might have been the reason why he´s living so damn secluded.

The Clone Wars series, at least the CG one, is considered to be canon still, that never changed.

RougeAvenger81 said:

Although it doesn't confirm the clone wars show as canon, they did mention or bicker about the use of clones again opposed to the storm troopers. I caught that much. Liked the tip of the hat towards the clone wars.

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Absolutely Clone Wars is canon.

Jaitea said:

I think its Luke's daughter because of the second teaser

"My Father has it,...I have it,....My Sister has it,....You have that power too"........"Someone I have no relation to....but I'll tell you about my family"

Could be a red herring,....but we will have to wait....or is Luke talking to young Ben

J

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It could just be Luke talking to all his young force users at this Jedi training dojo.

I kinda feel like the whole "Rey is Luke's daughter" thing is just too obvious and easy. If that *is* the big reveal, we'll just have everyone moaning sarcastically, "Oh, didn't see *that* one coming...!"