Why aren't Indy and his dad immortal?

[Moviefreak]

I also studied art, but history as well.

If you look at things like Greek sculpture, and even some ancient paintings/frescos, it's clear that they understood perspective and anatomy perfectly fine. But representing photorealistic scenes wasn't what they were after, particularly in medieval times. Paintings were about symbolism and conveying a message to illiterate populations rather than beauty, so the emphasis was being as clear as possible, often at a distance.

Consider it like an artistic choice rather than a limitation. Of course, there's always less than stellar artists occupying the scene as well. Sculpture was considered to be the higher art with more permanence, so if you were really good, you likely didn't paint/draw much. The Bayeaux tapestry wasn't made by artists, but rather noblewomen for instance.

We should also keep in mind that many of the artists we studied in art history, like Picasso, who became known for his abstract cubist style, actually started out with the skills of a master painter. If you trace their early work, you'll see they were capable of realistic drawing and painting—they just became bored with that and pushed their art in new directions. It’s similar to a jazz pianist who can flawlessly perform any classical piece but chooses to experiment with unconventional sounds, which some might call noise. Often, once you’ve mastered something, you need to move beyond it for your own creative growth. It’s these explorations that often lead to innovation and end up being seen as your most groundbreaking work.

 

[Lightning]

I think we should re-title the thread "Indiana Jones questions you always wanted answers to"

 

[Laspector]

I don't know much about biplanes of that era, but when Henry shoots the tail off their plane--wouldn't (or shouldn't) the gun have some kind of 'stop' feature to prevent the gun from doing that? Maybe? I dunno.

 

[DarthWilder]

I don't know much about biplanes of that era, but when Henry shoots the tail off their plane--wouldn't (or shouldn't) the gun have some kind of 'stop' feature to prevent the gun from doing that? Maybe? I dunno.

The first bi-planes did not have a blocking cam for the front guns; so it was possible to shoot off your own propeller. This issue was of course remedied early on. I don't think rear guns had this ability because there's no propeller back there to run a block off cam.

 

[Lightning]

I don't know much about biplanes of that era, but when Henry shoots the tail off their plane--wouldn't (or shouldn't) the gun have some kind of 'stop' feature to prevent the gun from doing that? Maybe? I dunno.

it depends entirely on the aircraft, some had stops and some didn't.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

The first bi-planes did not have a blocking cam for the front guns; so it was possible to shoot off your own propeller. This issue was of course remedied early on. I don't think rear guns had this ability because there's no propeller back there to run a block off cam.

Yeah the Germans invented the first gun interrupter, but I don't recall ever hearing of something like that on a flex mounted gun. It's usually only on the guns if they fire through the propeller. I don't think they thought anyone would be stupid enough to shoot the tail off.

Edit: I guess WW2 aircraft had deflectors that would stop bullets fired at the tail or something like electric turrets wouldn't fire when aimed at the tail.

 

[HeartBlade]

Yeah, the grail cant pass the seal and the power of immortality wears off if you leave the temple which is why the knight is trapped in the temple and cant leave. I do wonder if he would just die/turn to dust if he did leave and Indy theoretically took his place as the new "knight" to protect the grail. Maybe its a fate worse than death but its the knight's duty to continue protecting the grail.

I did also read (not sure if its a fan theory, novelization, or whatever) but apparently drinking from the grail stops all things, including aging. The knight has aged over time because there were apparently times where he had sinful thoughts so didnt drink from the grail that day as pertinence and aged as a result. Im guessing this knight is supposed to be one of King Arthur's knights from the round table so he was presumably younger when he initially found the grail.

In terms of the traps, yeah, the first one is kind of silly with the need to roll (and a rope to stop the traps). I dont know if the traps are supposed to have been made "by God" or humans since there is some "mechanism" that controls these traps (saw blades, loose traps) but there is also supernatural powers in the Indy-verse (the arc and the ghosts destroying the nazis being one). I always presumed there is a mix of both protecting the grail, some manmade contraptions that may be enhanced by supernatural power so while it is an eye trick; the perspective, darkness of the cave, and natural build allowing the bridge to blend in with the background does require a "leap of faith."

 

[batguy]

It only makes sense that traps were man-made. IIRC the invisible bridge was a medieval artist's work in the novelization.

Those are the unwritten rules in the franchise. There can be supernatural stuff happening but Indy's challenges aren't supernatural. He sinks or swims by his ability to spot trap doors and punch out bad guys and remember ancient texts. The angry gods don't judge him worthy or bail him out of trouble.

In 'Raiders' and 'Crusade' he was not a hero/savior. He was just passing through history.

In 'Temple' he became a reluctant hero/savior, like Max in 'Road Warrior'.

 

[blewis17]

There can be supernatural stuff happening but Indy's challenges aren't supernatural. He sinks or swims by his ability to spot trap doors and punch out bad guys and remember ancient texts. The angry gods don't judge him worthy or bail him out of trouble.

Point taken.
But... the ending of TOD had Shiva step in and "help" Indy with the burning Sankara stone, and the subsequent death of Mola Ram.

 

[Lightning]

Point taken.
But... the ending of TOD had Shiva step in and "help" Indy with the burning Sankara stone, and the subsequent death of Mola Ram.

But Indy did the incantation to set them off, that's more direct influence than he had with the Ark or False Grail.

I dont know if the traps are supposed to have been made "by God" or humans since there is some "mechanism" that controls these traps (saw blades, loose traps)

So, does the knight have molds somewhere to replace the missing letter tiles? They would have no way of knowing the first people to find the temple would make it all the way through the traps.

 

[JediMichael]

Last Crusade was always my favorite. It was such a fun movie to watch, that the flaws and issues weren't even a problem to me. As a kid and watching him get through the traps was an edge of your seat type thing....didn't matter if it made sense or not.
Never cared too much for Temple of Doom.

 

[batguy]

Indy making the stones burn in 'Temple' was him learning a practical cause-and-effect. Like closing his eyes for the Ark or spelling Jehovah with an 'I'. It's using knowledge. Willie could have done the same thing in his place. My point is, the supernatural power was not helping him in particular.

As for re-setting the letter tiles before the Grail . . . Umm . . . "repeat to yourself, it's just a show, I should really just relax" . . .

 

[The Goon]

"...why aren't Indy and his dad immortal?"

Because George Lucas sucks at writing stories/scripts. Watch that last Indiana Jones movie and tell me it didn't suck harder than a Black Hole. Lucas got lucky with Star Wars because he had lots of help, and couldn't repeat that success on his own.

 

[HeartBlade]

I don't know much about biplanes of that era, but when Henry shoots the tail off their plane--wouldn't (or shouldn't) the gun have some kind of 'stop' feature to prevent the gun from doing that? Maybe? I dunno.

I always liked how Jones Sr. just turns to Indy and goes "they got us Indy, they got us" and conveniently leaving out he was the one who shot their tail off. Maybe Crusade was too silly compared to the previous two movies but I did think it worked well. The journey is really light-hearted in some respects so when things to get serious, they feel like they have more weight behind them (like when Sr gets shot or when he thinks Indy died from the tank falling off the cliff).

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I always liked how Jones Sr. just turns to Indy and goes "they got us Indy, they got us" and conveniently leaving out he was the one who shot their tail off. Maybe Crusade was too silly compared to the previous two movies but I did think it worked well. The journey is really light-hearted in some respects so when things to get serious, they feel like they have more weight behind them (like when Sr gets shot or when he thinks Indy died from the tank falling off the cliff).

My only problem with that movie is when they're escaping the castle. They run out, Indy starts the boat engine and launches it, then gets into the crate or wherever the motorcycle is stored. Instead of waiting for the Nazis to get in and be too far down the river to do anything, they immediately gun it in the motorcycle.

 

[blewis17]

Because George Lucas sucks at writing stories/scripts. Watch that last Indiana Jones movie and tell me it didn't suck harder than a Black Hole. Lucas got lucky with Star Wars because he had lots of help, and couldn't repeat that success on his own.

Lucas is an idea man, and an editor at heart. Not a director, not a script writer.
He has always needed talented others to help flesh out and implement his thoughts.
When they did, we got the OT. When the didn't we get the PT and Howard the Duck.

 

[DarkHelmet]

I think we're all forgetting that there is a lot of Divine influence in The Last Crusade which makes us have to, as Marcus so eloquently said, "Take a few things on faith."

We have to assume that in order to keep the Grail safe, God was involved.

When Indy stands at the chasm, looking at the impossible, he has absolutely no choice but to trust God if he wants to save his Dad. He holds his heart, extends his leg and steps off. There was no miracle, it was a simple act of Faith.

Having the path camouflaged by perspective was divine intervention as there is no way man could built that then but considering the narrow opening Indy was standing in, there was also no way to see other views of the bridge. Either way, I just always chocked it up to God.

I love Last Crusade. It's my favorite right behind ROTLA.

 

[drusselmeyer]

We all know that Indy's Dad died when the Kurgan took his head in '86. So he lived that long at least.

 

[Treadwell]

There was the divine in the power of the Grail, but not in any of the traps. They required one to do pious things to avoid them: kneel, follow the path, leap. But men made them.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I think we're all forgetting that there is a lot of Divine influence in The Last Crusade which makes us have to, as Marcus so eloquently said, "Take a few things on faith."

We have to assume that in order to keep the Grail safe, God was involved.

When Indy stands at the chasm, looking at the impossible, he has absolutely no choice but to trust God if he wants to save his Dad. He holds his heart, extends his leg and steps off. There was no miracle, it was a simple act of Faith.

Having the path camouflaged by perspective was divine intervention as there is no way man could built that then but considering the narrow opening Indy was standing in, there was also no way to see other views of the bridge. Either way, I just always chocked it up to God.

I love Last Crusade. It's my favorite right behind ROTLA.

There was the divine in the power of the Grail, but not in any of the traps. They required one to do pious things to avoid them: kneel, follow the path, leap. But men made them.

I always thought that the leap of faith was exactly that. Indy (and anyone else) can't see the path because it's camouflaged by more than the stone. It's possible God obscures it until you make that leap and then you can see it, as Indy (the audience) does in the movie.