What's your Opinion of Costume Swatches?

[Ttaskmaster]

Things only have the power you give them.
To you, it's a 1" square piece of history, from XYZ film.... to someone else, it's a bit of overpriced rag stuck to a bit of card.

Same with props.
I'd rather have the same model of something, or the entire prop. That at least is recognisible enough to me, if not other people as well.

To each their own, I suppose... But I'd be mighty ***ked off at anyone who destroyed a costume I wanted.

 

[Alric]

Some of the cards are form actual costumes and it is the entire costume that is cut up. Other like the ones from Xmen are carfully worded to be "material used in the making of" the costimes and not the actual costumes themselves. To realy upset eveyone even more in the latest Stargate set they had Relic cards which contained parts of the Gate.

 

[garver76]

To those of us who who collect costumes it is Most of these are, in fact, the real deal and many items from Christie's, PIH, and IAW have ended up as costume cards.

One example is Rittenhouse, when they cut up a Doctor McCoy maroon jacket they bought from Christies...

If someone were to cut up a Ferrari and sell you a 1" square of Model A Ford would that be exciting since you can't afford a whole Model A?

Selling swatches of extra fabric is one thing, but to actually cut up costumes is horrible, and I cannot understand why anyone would want a little bit of a costume... you cannot prove what it is, you likely cannot even tell what it came from without the little card it is in... If you can't afford the whole thing then let someone who can buy it and keep it safe, instead of asking companies to butcher stuff and destroy the thing...

BG

 

[ChrisG]

If you can't afford the whole thing then let someone who can buy it and keep it safe, instead of asking companies to butcher stuff and destroy the thing...

But it's not destroying it, apparently. It's actually giving many, many more people the joy of ownership.

Or some such nonsense.

-chris

 

[bigbaddaddyvader]

I had an argument about this with a friend who was in the process of cutting up a screen-used costume piece from a well-known franchise.It was a stunt piece but a very recognisable costume piece and a very iconic costume from a horror character.His excuse was it was a stunt piece.I didnt give a damn it was a stunt costume.I told him in no uncertain terms that I thought he was being a total mercenary and I was really disappointed that he,as a fellow collector of original pieces,was resorting to prop butchery.That's what it boils down to-butchering props for profit.
Never,ever,ever slice up a screen-used costume piece.I hate seeing those swatches.As Chris says it is the destruction of cinematic artifacts.I dont care if someone cant afford to own the actual screen-used costume.I cant afford to own some of these pieces either but I would rather they stayed with someone with more money than I who would look after it than it be destroyed to satisfy my needs.That's an incredibly short-sighted and narrow view in my opinion.

 

[Ttaskmaster]

What if you do win the lottery and can suddenly afford everything?
TBH, it's the main reason I play it. Owning a house is a secondary consideration.

Also, as swatches, you'd never see it in a museum. Or on an exhibit tour.
You'd also never get to make accurate replicas.

My friend has a load of SU Aliens stuff - As a result of his continually taking reference photos as requested, we have a very comprehensive knowledge base about these pieces, down to the finest detail. While matey is lucky enough to own the real pieces, many of us now have the joy of owning either perfect replicas and/or copies made from the same parts.

Obviously it's down to the discretion of the prop/costume owner, but many owners are generously appreciative of our shared passions. I'd think the replica market is far more profitable than the swatch one...


How much does a material swatch go for, anyway?

 

[Alric]

They go from a few $ into the Hundreds depending on the costume and the number made.

From a costume collectors point of view I can fully understand why the costumes should not be cut up but for the card collectors view ponit they only care that it is a part of the card set.

At one of the london shows a couple of years ago they were giving out a square of the wall covering from Enterprise stuck to a piece of paper when you went to the Patrick Stewart talk.

 

[hankey01]

Hard to be ridiculed for enjoying swatches by those who do have screen used items. Easy to say you would rather they were in the hands of collectors if you didn't have any, when you do. The same can be said for private collectors of any screen used items. They should be available for the public to see and on display in a museum or the like.

I didn't demand the items to be cut..heck I wasn't aware of their existence until long after they were sold in stores. That doesn't mean I can't spend a few dollars and have a fraction of the pleasure the more wealthy collectors have.

We are talking about one of many duplicate shirts or whatever...many! I do have a snippet of the felt from the production of the KOTCS hats. I enjoy having it as well. It wasn't part of the screen used hat, but I know the screen used ones were made from the same piece of fabric.

I'm done defending myself for enjoying something that I can afford. If I had money to burn of course I would want a complete piece in tact. I guarantee if I did have a complete piece I would NOT cut it up and sell it. I am not even contributing to the incentive for card retailers to do this since the three I have I purchased on ebay, so that money did not in any way influence card sales. They were second hand.

 

[Ttaskmaster]

I kinda understand having what you can afford... I can't own a Harley, so I ride a cheap Japanese copy.

But if something is special enough to me that I want it, even a little bit, I'd rather save the fortune up over the years and eventually buy the whole thing.

Or if a replica is cheaper, I'd go for that.

I kinda figure that cutting something up into bits may benefit me and a whole load of other people (or turn me a reasonable profit if I'm the one doing the cutting)... but in doing so, there could also be one person who's saved up like I have, or taken out a big loan - And I could be depriving them of that one dream prop/costume they always wanted and just worked very hard to get.

 

[Guardian Devil]

..there could also be one person who's saved up like I have, or taken out a big loan - And I could be depriving them of that one dream prop/costume they always wanted and just worked very hard to get.

Exactly how I see it - the fact is, it shouldn't matter if there was 100 identical costumes used - 99 of them could already be in private collections...and it's somebodies dream to own that last costume one day...cutting it up is just destroying it - it will never again be what it once was. Just little squares and the words to say that it was once part of something great that no longer exists.

I also think the argument that those of us that own screen used costumes all think this way because we can afford them is complete rubbish.
I wouldn't consider myself a rich man, not by any stretch of the imagination in fact! I've worked very hard and saved and even taken a few chances to obtain the things I have, some of the things in my collection are even there through pure luck or the kindness of others - but all that is irrelevant - even before I started to collect screen used pieces I always thought it was a terrible practice.
As a fan of films - I've always loved to know that there were people out there taking care of those costumes and props that meant so much to me and preserving them for others to enjoy down the line, but that's just my opinion - whatever thats worth :lol

 

[outlander]

Those of us who can't afford any more than that.

They can't afford it right now. Unless they're... uh, slackers, they have to figure things will change for the better in the future.

I dislike the idea of destroying a piece of movie history so that card collectors can have a extra kewl card. I like to think that they are scraps like what Art was talking about.

I'm not a moderator here so I'm not required to be as polite and diplomatic and tactful and stuff. It's a sucker buy of a sucker item for suckers. My apolgogies to those who have bought them in the past. And of course, it's JMHO.

 

[hankey01]

I am hardly a "slacker". I have worked hard and always played by the rules and was slowly improving the quality of my life to a point where I had a decent house with a yard and my dream home theater that I built into my basement.

My wife left me in Jan...and now that I have to pay a substantial part of my income to her I can't afford more than a small townhouse and the odd costume swatch. I had to sell most of the replica's etc I collected for my theater room to pay some bills and because I don't have room any more. Unless a miracle happens and she starts working full time and makes the same as me the situation will not change..not for almost 20 years..so when I am in my late 50's I can start trying to build up my life again....and start over..but by then I will have to save every penny I can for a retirement income as our government has pretty much told us by the time my generation is old enough to retire not to count on any income from them.

I am no "slacker"....I simply cannot afford a whole costume piece and I don't see that ever changing unless I win a lottery.

I'm tired of being told I am wrong for liking the only version of a small movie item I can afford. Imagine losing 90% of the items you cherish and having only few things like a small item like a swatch to enjoy. I didn't cut it..I didn't ask for it to be cut..but I can afford it so I got one used on ebay for cheap. Who can I mail it to that has almost nothing to see if they would rather throw it out or put it on their wall? Should I not have anything?! I have a Hot Wheel delorean...should I NOT enjoy it because its not a real one? No I realize no screen used Deloreans were harmed in making a hot wheel $2 toy...but if one WERE destroyed for whatever reason...it is wrong to hang a part of it on my wall..or should I recycle it? I didn't buy the swatches retail, so I didn't support the initial purchase of them so my acquiring of one didn't affect the company's future decisions for cutting things up. I was in no way involved in their decision, nor did my small purchase affect it.

Some rich collector who isn't a "slacker" like I am deserves it more. I am sure everyone with lots of money is more hard working and entitled to things than me.

 

[outlander]

I certainly am not calling YOU a slacker, so I'd prefer you not turn this into something it is not.

Also, I regret to hear about you and your wife's break up. A not inconsiderable number of people on this board are in the same situation.

But, since you've interjected yourself personally into things, could I ask a personal question? Do you not believe your financial position will improve in the future?

Was the question "Do you approve of the practice of cutting screen used movie artifacts into pieces so bits of them can be sold off?"

or

"What do you think about the companies - like Sony - who practice this?"

or

"What do you think the value of a costume swath trading card is?"

I cannot tell. But, JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION :

I find the practice distasteful if it encompasses hero props. If it is minor production related material, have at it!

If I find the practice distasteful, I must find the companies or people who engage in it distasteful as well.

I find the monetary investment value of costume swtch cards to be in the neighborhood of Magic, the Gathering cards.

However, if you enjoy them, have at it! Anything that allows peoples' enjoyment of the movie industry to be enhanced, I am in favor of.

I thought that was the point of replicas.

But if your money situation is grim, how about driving up to that Kent farm house and prying me a board of original wood off of it, preferably from an area seen onscreen. Document that. I'll pay you $100.00. You didn't keep the wood. I didn't pull the board off myself. So, we are both guilty of nothing. Or something.

Which is it?

 

[hankey01]

I apologize for my crankiness earlier..it's been a tough few days with a sick baby and an ex to deal with that somehow knows more than a doctor...don't ask. Needless to say I was awoken way to early today to her being mad at me for sleeping when she has the kids this weekend. Ah well...time for a beer.


Do I approve of a company cutting the pieces up...I didn't even consider it when I purchased my swatch but I suppose I don't. Nonetheless it is the only way I could get a piece of one of my favorite films so I enjoy it. What is it worth as a collector's item? Not much I realize. It makes me happy..that's all.

Do I feel my financial situation will improve? Not for a long time (until the kids are adults and I don't have to pay "her" any more. By then it's close to retirement time so I need to save every penny in that. Right now I am starting over like I was when I was in my early 20's but now I am in my late 30's.

As for a board from my future farm....I won't ever break a piece off (was this a trick?). I do respect it too much for that, even though I do think it is going to be ripped apart very soon. My best efforts at contacting the owner have failed but if I ever drive by and he is gutting it I'll be loading my Civic with as much rotted wood as I can. For now I do have a few pieces that had fallen off...I did do a little bit of cleaning up.

 

[darth_myeek]

I picked up a Wash shirt swatch from Serenity for a good deal. It actually reads like it was screen used. I like it, but I didn't go out of my way for it. I also have a couple of BSG flight jacket swatches. I am pretty sure those swatches were from a bolt. I think it's cool to see it as a fabric example, but I don't have them on display.

-DM

 

[Ttaskmaster]

If money is an issue, I have personally found it better to get a complete repro of a garment made.
Half the time, the people making my repro neither know nor care that it's movie related.

That way, the original stays in one piece and can go to someone who can afford it.
Like I said, that owner may be someone like me who has saved up for this one piece - Who am I to destroy their dream?


As for the rest - You win some, you lose some. Plenty of people richer than me... plenty of people who make me look like a king. Imagine someone being stunned that you can actually afford a house, or a car...

 

[franz bolo]

As far as the costume swatch, I think it's a bad idea to cut up a good outfit. Scraps would be cool to have though if your into that stuff.

As far as this comment:

I certainly am not calling YOU a slacker, so I'd prefer you not turn this into something it is not.

You did quote him and then post a reply. When one quote another member, one usually means that they are directing that specific answer or comment towards that individual that was initially quoted.

I'm not a moderator here so I'm not required to be as polite and diplomatic and tactful and stuff.

Well actually you ARE! From the Members Guidelines.

Respect Please extend respect to others. Discussion and debate may lead to heated disagreement; approach them in a civil manner, showing respect for the other person's point of view.

FB

 

[great1]

No reason to cut up a costume. I have a similar problem with game jerseys being cut up. A few years ago I got a game-used jersey from the Pittsburgh Penguins. It was from the year that they opened the season in Japan and had a special patch to commemorate it. I got the away jersey. One day while surfing ebay I found a card from that player and it had part of the patch on it. They had cut up the home jersey. I hate that.

Actually with hockey cards it's not that bad because most of the jerseys being used are only used 1 game then sent to the card company. The players will wear 3 sets of jerseys during the season which can be bought from meigray. The image on the card almost never is from the same jersey as the swatch. I am pretty sure a lot of the older players jerseys are actually from Old Timers games which I also don't mind.

Movie costumes I feel differently, they should never be cut up!

 

[Alric]

The idea of the movie costume cards came from the sports ones . These cards are created by the card companies as they help sell the sets well. The collectors like them as most would not event consider buying a full costume item and it gets them an actual bit of the show / film. Most collectors buy the costume for one main reason, its part of the set and getting as much of the set as possible is the goal. I would prefer to have the entire costume and that hey not get cut up but then I also like my costume cards that are in my collection.

 

[thegreatgalling]

This has been a really interesting read and this issue is really hard for me to wrap my head around.

I am one of the most sentimental people. To me, museums are wonderous places and for the things I love most, just KNOWING a piece was a part of its history is incredibly special. Isn't that why most of us are even IN this hobby? Because of the sentimental attachment to the things we see before us in the films?

So on the one hand, as a collector, I want to know these pieces, the ones that I hold so dear, are afforded both respect and reverance. What do I mean? That if you own the Lion's costume from Wizard of Oz, you recognize it is a piece of the very fabric of our popular culture. That you display it, share it with fans when you can, and most importantly, preserve it for future generations. Screen used pieces, in my opinion, come with them a special responsibility replicas just don't have.

At the same time, my sentimentality ALSO means to touch and own a piece of this history is an amazing thought. At the same time, even just a microscopic piece of a costume that "THAT person actually wore in the film" is amazing by itself. A shard of a TOS tunic? The ACTUAL tunic leonard Nimoy wore in the THE TOS?

The problem is that these two very different spheres of the hobby cannot be reconciled with regard to this issue. I recently bought a very rare James Bond relic card that contains a swatch of JB's suit from the opening scenes of Dr. No. The thought made me VERY happy at the time, but I also feel conflicted.
I feel much better when I do know there are OTHERS like it, OR a swatch or relic does no real harm to the constitution of the memoribilia (like a piece of loose thread, or the inside of a cuff).

I def. am not lost of the thought of swatches. I think they are a great idea, and sheesh, relics are not a new idea, they first served religious purposes and even served the basis of church constuctions AROUND the relics.

A piece of history is a piece of history no matter how you cut it, pun intentional.

Hmm...very tough.