Vergere - really a Sith?

[squirk]

I don't read EU very often anymore, but do skim Wookieepedia from time to time to get a general feel for where the post-OT storyline is going.

And despite the lengthy entry on Vergere, I still can't tell if she was a Sith or not. The only source supporting that claim is Lumiya, and she's hardly a reliable source, right? Is it possible that she was lying, when Vergere was dead and unable to refute the claim? Or is it possible that Vergere was a double-agent, playing the Sith for her own ends?

I know Vergere was unorthodox in her views on the Force, but is there anything that clearly proves she was a Sith? I guess the idea that she became a Force ghost leads me to think she had somewhat selfless motives for what she did.

Or is that the whole point - that she introduced Jacen to the idea of being a "selfless" Sith, doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[firesprite]

I would say she's more of a "fallen Jedi" than a true Sith, myself.

 

[SmilingOtter]

I didn't care for that bit of revisionist writing at all.

 

[Paul Andrew]

Still trying to claw my way through fate of the jedi...

but yeah from what I recall I think she was more of a fallen jedi than a true sith. Back in the NJO days there wasn't much to point to her being any kind of traditional sith as we know them.

 

[squirk]

So was she supposed to be not evil, but more like a Potentium follower? I'm not sure if we, the readers, are supposed to take Lumiya at her word.

 

[damon5973]

I would go with force sensitive, neither a sith nor a jedi.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I would go with force sensitive, neither a sith nor a jedi.

She was a Jedi though. I thought it was the Vong and the Embrace of Pain that had corrupted her.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

If I had my way the whole Vong series and the Dark Empire series would be stuck in a drawer and never looked at again. Having said that I think Vergere was twisted by the Vong and was using the Dark Side. I don't think she was a Sith though.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

A quick look on Wookieepedia yielded:

"Vergere was a Sith?"
"You didn't know that? I thought you were Lumiya's apprentice?"

I gave up on the EU entirely after Dark Nest Trilogy, but I'm aware of broad strokes of what came after. Given how little regard the Rule of Two is given in the EU I don't see a reason for Vergere to not be a Sith. Also, her time with Jacen during the Vong arc started him down the path towards becoming a Sith.

I'd say that the original intention wasn't that she was a Sith, but subsequent to the Vong arc the writers had to quickly backpedal the "no Dark or Light side" concept and part of that resulted in retconning her into a Sith.

 

[squirk]

A quick look on Wookieepedia yielded:

"Vergere was a Sith?"
"You didn't know that? I thought you were Lumiya's apprentice?"

Right. I saw that, too. But again, are we supposed to take that at face value? Was it true, or was it a false claim propagated by Lumiya, among both Jedi and Sith alike, to further her goals?

 

[DuneMuadDib]

What's to be gained by lying? I don't see how lying about Vergere being a Sith helps wipe out the Jedi and bring the galaxy under Sith rule any better than just being honest about the results of her membership application.

 

[squirk]

Bear in mind that I don't have the full context of that quote. Was Lumiya's assertion made as a way of making Jacen even more amenable to being a Sith? Or was Vergere possibly playing Lumiya? I have no idea either way.

Based on what others have said above, it sounds like the editorial staff pulled the "Vergere was a Sith" thing out of their ass as a ret-con.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

Lumiya had identified Vergere as a Sith to Jacen earlier, but the quote I posted isn't from Lumiya or Jacen. A Jedi who's posing as Lumiya's apprentice to infiltrate the Sith says the first line, and the second is the response of one of those Sith. The discussion comes after Jacen's already become a Sith.