Vader helmet tusks - what were they?

[James Kenobi 1138]

I gotta go with Gino as well on this, he would know.

 

[Mouse Vader]

There really is no point in debating this as its a known fact. 100% they were machined for the productions. I've seen the actual machine drawings (which were hand sketched and among tons of other metal bits for other costumes made for the production as well).

I'm not for or against them being machined parts at the moment - It's just that this explanation is too brief & confusing for me to base anything on, a link to where this has all been discussed before would help.

 

[Lan Jenn]

I'm not for or against them being machined parts at the moment - It's just that this explanation is too brief & confusing for me to base anything on, a link to where this has all been discussed before would help.

This is an interesting response. GINO said that he has seen the machine drawings that the tusks were made from in the OT productions. When citing a source, which is what I think you are asking for (correct me if I'm mistaken), a person's first-hand knowledge and experience IS the citation.

The part about them being machined parts as known fact, well, that one is not actually the case. Otherwise, why would this thread be open? However, I think that what can be taken from GINO's post is that it is a known fact to him and the others who were involved in discussing that known fact. But his follow-up of seeing the machine drawings first-hand kind of seals it.

The tusks in Episode 3 were machined for sure. I had a dickens of a time picking them out of the scrap aluminum on the CNC lathe. They're so dang small. They were everywhere! haha

 

[Mouse Vader]

I understand someones first hand experience counts as citation ( with usual caveats as to memory etc). As I have blundered in the past on this subject I'm trying - cautiously - to ask did he see drawings for each OT film & were each of these dated, if not how can he be sure they're contemporary to each production (my brevity comment.)

He also says they were machined for each of the productions then later comments (in parenthesis) ...made for the production...
I know I sound horribly nit picky - but my head works this way & I find this sort of thing confusing as to what he actually means.

Past experience always flags anything stated as 'a fact' as immediately questionable no matter who says it or how good their past performance may be.
I now refuse to do it myself, however tempted I might be, as a venture fraught with pitfalls. I don't mean this in any disrespectful way - I've just seen too many credible persons come a cropper (besides myself) by stating facts.

 

[Lan Jenn]

That certainly is an understandable reasoning. I tend to take it at face value, especially considering GINO's history with the Vader character.

 

[Jagjaguwar]

Heh, this thread makes me want to see a “real parts” Vader helmet, constructed with only found parts. Obviously it wouldn’t be accurate but could be a fun project nonetheless.

The face mask- I’ve no idea what could be used, but for the dome, I seem to recall very Vaderish looking helmets being worn by some of Saddam Hussein’s troops in Iraq...

 

[Mouse Vader]

There's a dangerous idea if ever I saw one.

 

[eethan]

Heh, this thread makes me want to see a “real parts” Vader helmet, constructed with only found parts. Obviously it wouldn’t be accurate but could be a fun project nonetheless.

The face mask- I’ve no idea what could be used, but for the dome, I seem to recall very Vaderish looking helmets being worn by some of Saddam Hussein’s troops in Iraq...

for the face, samourai masks could be used, they are what inspired the mask in the first place, so why not

 

[vader45]

While Gino could be correct here his comment does nothing for this thread. It's short with no citied sources to back him up. I could say I saw the drawings but actually did not.

Gino has been like this in the past. He will say he had sources or seen this and that with out proof to back him up. If people still disagrees he goes into baby mode and just says he's right and everyone else is wrong. I have seen it first hand on this forum. As a result he has been banned on The Prop Den for his poor was he conducts him self.

The discussion I remember the most that involved Gino was the discussion about new helmets made for ROTJ. He said no new helmets were made and they were all refurbished Empire helmets. He would not be swayed no matter what people said or proved. Brandon Alinger said Jedi helmets have a different fiberglass structure yet Gino still didn't budge while Gino provided nothing to back up his claim.

So no Gino I do not listen. He is not the end all be all knowledge for Vader. He is no different then any other guy buying and building Vader props and costumes just because his displays are so nice.

 

[GINO]

Did you go to the archives and go through, sort out, and document every vader component they had? Oh wait that was me.
The prop den is a great place to go if you want misinformation by people who have never held a screen-used vader item in their hands.
It's because of people like you that make me not want to share or help out so by all means, continue to be wrong.

 

[vader45]

Did you go to the archives and go through, sort out, and document every vader component they had? Oh wait that was me.
The prop den is a great place to go if you want misinformation by people who have never held a screen-used vader item in their hands.
It's because of people like you that make me not want to share or help out so by all means, continue to be wrong.

This just pretty much proves my point from my last post.

 

[Jagjaguwar]

Maybe I’m missing something, but do people think Gino would say he’d seen drawings that don’t exist? What would he gain from doing this?

It seems like his explanation fits what we can see of the props better than any of the found parts that have been cited, at least as far as my non-expert eyes can tell. Search for a perfect match in a found part if you wish, but... the given explanation seems like enough until something (a found part that matches up well) is identified, no? If at some point a part is found that seems like a perfect match, then it would make sense to revisit the discussion.

I know it’s not new with Vader stuff, but I always find it odd when it seems like the search for answers is somehow a competitive endeavor and not a cooperative one. Maybe it’s just me.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Maybe I’m missing something, but do people think Gino would say he’d seen drawings that don’t exist? What would he gain from doing this?

Not at all. To hopefully clarify. He doesn't say how many drawings he saw nor how he could tell for which film date wise. ie were these drawing/s for later promo helmets (as an ANH eg ). I can't evaluate the information he does give without the extra detail. I'm sure he knows his stuff better than I which is why I need the extra help. I whole heartedly agree with all else you say.

but I always find it odd when it seems like the search for answers is somehow a competitive endeavor and not a cooperative one. Maybe it’s just me.

I think enthusiasm can come across like this.

 

[teecrooz]

When most people are given access to restricted information such as the archives, you typically aren’t allowed to go into the level of detail you’re asking for. I know plenty of people with photographs they took in the archives that aren’t allowed to publicly post them due to NDA. Just putting that out there, for what it’s worth.

 

[RoCKo]

So no Gino I do not listen. He is not the end all be all knowledge for Vader. He is no different then any other guy buying and building Vader props and costumes just because his displays are so nice.

Really? I really don’t share your thoughts! Actually he is different since he was one of only a few persons that were able to sort through the LFL archives and has handled a lot of screenused items while that.
Whenever he chimes into a (mostly) Vader thread the bashing starts over and over again.

While I personally have not too much interest in Vader stuff this behaviour is even more embarrassing than Gino’s.
Which, just to make myself clear, definitely isn’t always reasonable or understandable to me too.
We all know, and at least should admit, that he has a lot of information he won’t share publicly, may it be because of a NDA or just his personal ego thing. Does that make him an expert? At least to me, definitely more than all those who haven’t been to the archives and haven’t handled screenused stuff personally.
Anyway it’s just his decision to share or not. Whether you like it or not...

Just to be perfectly clear, I have asked Gino a dozen times for information and most of the time he wouldn’t or couldn’t share his knowledge. Did I liked this? Definitely no, and he knows it!
But what now? Do i go out and leave a comment in every single thread he is involved?
No, and why should I do anyway? It will not change his mind and saves me a lot of time and all other forum members a lot of unnecessary stuff to read!
Be sure that I’ll try again to ask for his knowledge when I have a question and from time to time I will get a answer.
That’s more than I would have without asking, huh?

Just get over it and take his word for truth or just leave it alone! But that’s just my personal opinion!

 

[Mouse Vader]

I'd say GINO is just making a rod for his own back here isn't he ? If he can't or won't share publicly the info he has why say publicly that he has it ? It just winds people up especially if he leaves out why he won't - a similar attitude looks to operating at the archives too. These are film props for goodness sake not ICBM launch codes.

 

[teecrooz]

I'd say GINO is just making a rod for his own back here isn't he ? If he can't or won't share publicly the info he has why say publicly that he has it ? It just winds people up especially if he leaves out why he won't - a similar attitude looks to operating at the archives too. These are film props for goodness sake not ICBM launch codes.

You’ll find that that attitude will get people to not share with you. People’s careers and livelihood are based on some of these arrangements. Why would they risk that? Wouldn’t risk my family over a prop, for goodness sake.

Just trying to add perspective. Sorry if it comes off as snarky. My secrets are few and far between, but I wouldn’t risk those friendships over them either.

 

[thd9791]

the given explanation seems like enough until something (a found part that matches up well) is identified, no? If at some point a part is found that seems like a perfect match, then it would make sense to revisit the discussion.

I thought thats what this whole thread was about, revisiting the discussion to see if anything out there matched. Maybe there's no point to looking because they were custom parts, and this whole thread is a waste of time, I just think there are more constructive ways of figuring that out.

 

[Mouse Vader]

People’s careers and livelihood are based on some of these arrangements.

Here in lies the problem $$$.

 

[VaderFan]

We've been overlooking the possibility of organic material being used in the creation of the original Vader tusks, but fortunately Google has settled the mystery and the search is over