Vader Helmet Project

[Too Much Garlic]

I have this Vader helmet face I have been working on, on and off, for that last 1½ years now... got it off eBay for a good price... only recently gotten any real progress other than sanding and trimming done. As I accidentally broke the original teeth on this helmet I had to replace those - just got to fill in some gaps with filler and some more sanding and I think it is ready for painting.

Will hopefully be getting a dome for it soon...

Hope you all approve. (have trimmed excess material from the chin vent since these pictures were taken)






Sorry for the sloppy primer job... the can went empty as I was spraying... gorram primer. :rolleyes

 

[SithLord]

Not a bad start....I like the overall shape. If you can, I would take some material out of the inside of the U-shaped part of the nose...seems the edges are fairly thick.

 

[OldKen]

if this is the same helmet i remember seeing its original shape... if its the one im thinking of youve done a hellova job, coming along nicely... yeah something about the nose ridge seems too thick, or something... something is standing out there... overall shape does look pretty anh.

should turn out to be a very cool piece.

keep us updated...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I'm unsure whether I have shown this off here before... though I might. Distinctly remember showing it off on Hirgons forum once... but that was a long time ago... when I hadn't worked all that much on it. Still have the original pictures of this thing, somewhere... I think...

The nose is definitely an area that needs more work, just unsure whether it is on the inside or on the outside of the nose that needs the most sanding, though... I guess I'll figure that out when I start working on it again...

Any other pointers would be appreciated.

 

[OldKen]

deleted post...

but cant wait to see what you end up with...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Heh... can't wait to see this one painted up though... wonder if I will go all out weathering crazy on it or do something completely different - been thinking about a weathered metal colored bust type thingy on a piedestal or something... like a memorial. Nah... I'll do the regular paint job + weathering... need the practice...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I know, I know, crazy talk, but seriously... I have been pondering a lot about gelcoating the thing lately, just to see how it would look - having heard the talk about the orignals perhaps being gelcoated and not painted black. Though, never having used gelcoat before, I was wondering if there was anything I should know about it first, before throwing myself out into it, or, is it as just easy to use as regular paint?

I know the best way would have been to have it gelcoated when it was molded, but since that is not an option, I am now checking out a Plan B to get the gelcoat-effect on there. Should it be applied by brush or air brush, does it come in gloss and semi-gloss, does it have to be buffed up afterwards to get a good shine... etc... (as I live in DK, I'm not looking for suppliers)

Anybody got info on gelcoat and wanna give some pointers, then I would be most appreciative. :thumbsup

 

[Darth Detroit]

I wouldnt worry about Gel-Coating. I would just use a simple 2 part epoxy to fill inthe larger pitting. Then use a sandable primer for the smaller pits. Wet sand, then paint. Wet sand between coats though. Gel-Coating is nice for the dome, but I wouldnt worry about it for the mask part.
Too much work to buff out.

 

[Cantina_Dude]

Howdy,

Well I think you are out of luck as gel coat isn't really like a paint at all. It's really a thickened resin that can have a colour pigment mixed into it. It is the first layer that is done when making a fiberglass casting. I'd imagine the helmet that you are working on does have an outer layer of gel coat, which is then backed with resin saturated fiberglass matting.

The theory that the original ANH helmet's black is just the raw gel coat is possible, but unfortunately you won't be able to "add" gel coat to the outside of your casting to re-create that look. As for gloss or semi-gloss gel coat, they don't exist (to the best of my knowledge) as it is a liquid(ish) substance that cures into a solid form. The determining factor of glossiness of a casting is the surface of the mold in which it is being cast. If the mold was made on a glass smooth master, a nice glossy casting will be made. If the master is textured at all, the mold, and therefore any castings, will have that same textured appearance. It would be possible to sand the gel coat surface with increasingly finer sandpaper and then a polishing compound to bring out a shine on a rougher casting, but I think it would take a lot of work. I'd say your best bet would be to experiment with various levels of gloss black spray paint, then go to town weathering it and hand-brushing the gunmetal on.

Keep up the good work man.

All the best,

MJC.

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 9 2006, 12:35 PM) [snapback]1297194[/snapback]</div>

I know, I know, crazy talk, but seriously... I have been pondering a lot about gelcoating the thing lately, just to see how it would look - having heard the talk about the orignals perhaps being gelcoated and not painted black. Though, never having used gelcoat before, I was wondering if there was anything I should know about it first, before throwing myself out into it, or, is it as just easy to use as regular paint?

I know the best way would have been to have it gelcoated when it was molded, but since that is not an option, I am now checking out a Plan B to get the gelcoat-effect on there. Should it be applied by brush or air brush, does it come in gloss and semi-gloss, does it have to be buffed up afterwards to get a good shine... etc... (as I live in DK, I'm not looking for suppliers)

Anybody got info on gelcoat and wanna give some pointers, then I would be most appreciative. :thumbsup
[/b]

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(Cantina_Dude @ Aug 9 2006, 09:56 PM) [snapback]1297219[/snapback]</div>

Howdy,
Well I think you are out of luck as gel coat isn't really like a paint at all. It's really a thickened resin that can have a colour pigment mixed into it. It is the first layer that is done when making a fiberglass casting. I'd imagine the helmet that you are working on does have an outer layer of gel coat, which is then backed with resin saturated fiberglass matting.
The theory that the original ANH helmet's black is just the raw gel coat is possible, but unfortunately you won't be able to "add" gel coat to the outside of your casting to re-create that look. As for gloss or semi-gloss gel coat, they don't exist (to the best of my knowledge) as it is a liquid(ish) substance that cures into a solid form. The determining factor of glossiness of a casting is the surface of the mold in which it is being cast. If the mold was made on a glass smooth master, a nice glossy casting will be made. If the master is textured at all, the mold, and therefore any castings, will have that same textured appearance. It would be possible to sand the gel coat surface with increasingly finer sandpaper and then a polishing compound to bring out a shine on a rougher casting, but I think it would take a lot of work. I'd say your best bet would be to experiment with various levels of gloss black spray paint, then go to town weathering it and hand-brushing the gunmetal on.
Keep up the good work man.
All the best,
MJC.
[/b]

Hmm... sounds more tricky than I first imagined... though, since gelcoat is mainly used to protect boats and they have this layer "re-freshed" every couple of years, I just thought it could be applied to the mask - after molding - and still get somewhat of the same feel as if it have been applied as the first layer in the mold.

My next question then is: whatever did those prop-guys use when making the RotS dome? In the documentary on the Extra Features DVD, they just smeared that thick, gooey, shiney black stuff into the mold with a brush and then the fiberglass matt was applied and the mold was closed... and when they opened it up and revealed the cast is was a shiney black dome and not something that they had to buff up or anything. If they weren't using gelcoat, then what did they use, 'cause that looked cool. :thumbsup

 

[frosty]

They are using black gelcoat and then backing that with the fibreglass, it comes out looking pretty clean

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(frosty @ Aug 9 2006, 10:33 PM) [snapback]1297252[/snapback]</div>

They are using black gelcoat and then backing that with the fibreglass, it comes out looking pretty clean
[/b]

Yes, I thought so too... but any idea of what brand or type or whether it's custom made?

Still checking out the gelcoat deal... no real answers yet... though may have found some who can help answer all my questions... just waiting patiently for a reply.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

DOUBLE POST. :cry

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 9 2006, 04:51 PM) [snapback]1297270[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(frosty @ Aug 9 2006, 10:33 PM) [snapback]1297252[/snapback]

They are using black gelcoat and then backing that with the fibreglass, it comes out looking pretty clean
[/b]

Yes, I thought so too... but any idea of what brand or type or whether it's custom made?

Still checking out the gelcoat deal... no real answers yet... though may have found some who can help answer all my questions... just waiting patiently for a reply.
[/b][/quote]


I can find out for you...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Aug 13 2006, 07:55 PM) [snapback]1299547[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 9 2006, 04:51 PM) [snapback]1297270[/snapback]

<div class='quotetop'>(frosty @ Aug 9 2006, 10:33 PM) [snapback]1297252[/snapback]

They are using black gelcoat and then backing that with the fibreglass, it comes out looking pretty clean
[/b]

Yes, I thought so too... but any idea of what brand or type or whether it's custom made?
Still checking out the gelcoat deal... no real answers yet... though may have found some who can help answer all my questions... just waiting patiently for a reply.
[/b][/quote]
I can find out for you...
[/b][/quote]
Cool. Any help would be appreciated.

The main questions I have are:
1. How is it to work with?
2. Can it be applied on a piece after casting is done and still look good and not obscure details?
3. Is it best applied by brush or by spray-gun?
- Is it too thick for a small air-brush - or can you add thinner and still get a good finish?
4. Does it have to be buffed up after appliance to get that deep shine?
- RotS helmet came out nice and shiney from the mold, how did they do that, if they used gelcoat?
5. What brand of gelcoat is best? Special brand or regular, readily available brand?

Man... those were a lot of questions... will begin searching the city where I live for places that sell gelcoat... and when finding those I will of course ask them all these questions.

 

[propsculptor]

This supplier sells Black Gelcoat:
http://fxsupplies.com/

 

[SithLord]

I'll see what I can find out for you...in the meantime here's a quick screengrab I did...maybe there are containers there someone here recognizes...

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 13 2006, 03:04 PM) [snapback]1299584[/snapback]</div>

Cool. Any help would be appreciated.

The main questions I have are:
1. How is it to work with?
2. Can it be applied on a piece after casting is done and still look good and not obscure details?
3. Is it best applied by brush or by spray-gun?
- Is it too thick for a small air-brush - or can you add thinner and still get a good finish?
4. Does it have to be buffed up after appliance to get that deep shine?
- RotS helmet came out nice and shiney from the mold, how did they do that, if they used gelcoat?
5. What brand of gelcoat is best? Special brand or regular, readily available brand?

Man... those were a lot of questions... will begin searching the city where I live for places that sell gelcoat... and when finding those I will of course ask them all these questions.
[/b]

Ok here we go...this is paraphrased a bit...not my own knowledge LOL...(this is how it was done in the production)...


The gelcoat used either came from FGI [fiberglass international] or Barnes products.

The first big thing is the finish on your helmet before you mold it, so if its crap your job will come out exacly the same. There is neutral gelcoat which is tan in colour, white and black gelcoat only have tint in them. Basically mix your gelcoat with catalyst and brush it into the mold, a fresh mold will repell the coating, and it will bead, so bear with this until you get a few pulls out, first coats in and just set not too much or it will shrink and contract and warp your finish, then get another layer one of the black 2 to 3 should be enough, then after this last layer has just set, not to long after again, laminate in your chosen matt and resin ...after its fully cured, pop it out and your finish should be the same as what you moulded, if its a little dull or theres a seam line to sand down if there's an imperfection, just wet and dry it with 1200 grit and work your way up to 2000, then you can go through your stages of cutting and polishing compounds, just like polishing a car.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 4 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1294122[/snapback]</div>

The nose is definitely an area that needs more work, just unsure whether it is on the inside or on the outside of the nose that needs the most sanding, though... I guess I'll figure that out when I start working on it again...
[/b]

The inside of the nose needs sanding...not the outside...the outside is fine...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Sorry... back to the crappy webcam pictures.

Progress... have been sanding some more on the mouth, trying to make it slimmer... though, am unsure it helped all that much... and worked a bit on the nose as well... will have a go at it again later... haven't done much else... so... enjoy... and any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks.




Will try to borrow a digital cam and post some better pictures as soon as possible.