Top Gun Moto Helmet - Part 2: VIPER

Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Hey guys/gals,

I've got a question - since I'm new to painting - is the 'texture' that can be seen in following picture what's considered 'orange peel'??
Maybe a little, it's hard for me to tell from that picture. Orange peel means that the texture will literally look like an orange peel, with little bumps and dips. You can see a good picture about half way down this article: Orange Peel - Forums - FineScale Modeler: Online Community, Forums, Blogs, Galleries
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Awesom Norman - thanks!

So, today was a really neat learning expierence for me. I admit that I've been fully enthused about this project, and having said that I've never done this before, I really hope that none of my replies seemed....arrogant. The reason that I say that is because I took the advice of those who said that it was necessary to wet sand my helmet even though I had done several color layers already - so, heeding the advice of those with experience, I did just that!

Here are some pics I took after I had finished:

12297-wsbh1.jpg


12299-wsbh3.jpg


12298-wsbh2.jpg


I have to admit that I was surprised at how the whole experience turned out. As I started I was hesitant, but once I got a feel for what I was doing, I began to uncover all sorts of little imperfections and raised spots in the paint that needed smoothing out. I'm so glad that I listened to you guys because I feel like 1) I learned something really neat, and 2) now my next coat will go on MUCH nicer.

Thank you guys for your advice!!

Now, appealing again to those of you with expertise, after my next coat (lets say it's the last before I plan to apply graphics), should I do this again??

If so, should I buff the surface to a shine at that point as well (before applying the graphics and the clear coat)??

I also took the template of the eagle, modified it and I think this is the positioning that I want:

12300-dht1-position-testing.jpg
 
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Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Don't forget to shoot some primer on that spot in the back before hitting it with color or it'll never blend in.

Sand - yes, only enough to de-gloss and give the clear something to 'bite' into.
Buff - personally I never buff until the last coat of clear is cured.
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Before applying your clear coat, you'll want to finish with 2 applications of polishing compound. First use something like Scratch Out, which is finer than wet sanding, but will still remove micro blemishes. Then you want to find a high quality swirl remover, for clear coats. This will give the helmet base a high-sheen finish. You really don't want to rely on the clear coat to make the helmet shiny. It's really more for protecting the underlying paint.

Your last few steps should be like this:

1) paint
2) wet sand
3) paint
3A) if your paint isn't blemish free at this point, wet sand again
3B) paint, if you needed to follow 3A
4) Scratch Out
5) swirl remover
6) clear coat

Now, I don't know what your plans for the decals are. Are they vinyl or something else? Do you have a spare piece which you can use to check adhesion? I know on actual flight helmets, the decals are just applied as the last step - they don't get clear coated. But if you're not using professional grade vinyl decals, you may need to clear coat over them, just to protect them. If that's the case, I would apply the decals after step 6, then apply another clear coat on top. But this is all dependent on your plan of attack.

-Fred
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Also, I do not know if you were planning to, but do not use any wax on this for the first month or to. I don't know why, but, I was told that once when I had a car painted and they mentioned that in one of the articles I saw when I was looking for an example of orange peel.
 
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Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

You really don't want to rely on the clear coat to make the helmet shiny. It's really more for protecting the underlying paint.

Curious... then why do manufacturers produce clears in matte, satin and gloss finishes?
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Because it's for protecting the paint underneath.

It's main function is too keep your paint job from getting scratched, dinged and oxidized. A high quality clear coat will offer UV-A and UV-B protection to keep your paint from fading from sun exposure, as well.

Now granted, most people who are using a clear coat, want the high gloss finish. But, to make everyone happy, there are options for people who don't, hence the matte and satin finishes. They may not be glossy, but they still offer damage protection.

If all someone is interested in is a high gloss (albeit non-protective) finish, I'd suggest a good application of Pledge Future Floor wax. It's comparitively priced, goes on much more easily and is easier to correct goofs, as it cleans up with windex (with ammonia). It'll offer oxidation protection, but nothing from scatches or the UV band.

-Fred
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

My thoughts are two-fold with regards to my expectations of a clear coat. Since I'll be applying vinyl decals, I want them to be protected (along with the rest of the finish). Additionally, I want a really nice glossy finish - I want it to look as professional as possible.

I really don't want to leave the decals exposed without a protective coating over them even though they are made from UV resistant vinyl.

The tips that you guys are giving me are priceless and I really am beginning to have a new appreciation for what it takes to get a good clean finish.

Last night I applied 1 light layer that went on beautifully...except for right in the front something got stuck in the paint (must have been in the air when I was spraying), and that really hacked me off.

So...tonight, I'll be wet sanding again and starting again. I'm really concerned about what this sort of problem once I apply the clear coat over the graphics. I won't be able to sand very much without causing irreparable damage to them...
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Evening update -

Hey everyone! So I've been doing the whole wet sanding, coating, wet sanding coating...process which has taken some time since I really want the paint to set fully before I mess with it. But I'm really pleased with the progress. I should be able to get 2 coats of color on tomorrow if the weather holds.

I worked it out with a local shop to let me come in and buff/polish my helmet once I'm happy with the coats that I've applied! I'm excited about that and my graphics should be here soon.

I'll post updates soon!
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Alright, this is turning into a long and repeated prime, paint, wetsand, paint, wetsand, paint, wetsand...process. That's testing my patience.

I'm trying to achieve the very best result, I'm finding it hard not be get inpatient. It seems like every time I go to wet sand, I find new imperfections. This time, I had to take one area all the way down to the first time layer because of a crack that had occured somewhere under all the layers that made the top coat look like the paint had run when in fact it hadn't run at all. Here's the pic:

12351-wsbh4-all-way-back-down.jpg


And now it's nice and smooth:

12352-wsbh5-nice-smooth.jpg


The best part though is that aside from this one significant problem area, I'd say my helmet is getting ever closer to the buffing stage! My graphics should arrive early next week and the guy who sold them to me gave me an open line to call him if I need any guidance in applying them.
 
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Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Big Day!!! My graphics arrived!!

12413-graphics.jpg


The best part is that they are nearly spot on for the template that I used for mock-up after I had shrink it down! That means that they'll fit perfectly and I won't have to worry about cutting them at all to get them to fit!!
 
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Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Great progress on your first build.
I learn something new with every project I take on and that is part of the fun.
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

He now knows more about painting than most of the planet.

:lol

Thanks for the compliments guys!! Though I've learned a lot, I still feel like I've got a lot more to learn - but as Frosty said (and I agree) that's part of the fun!
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

I do things a little differently with painting. I'm a trained pannel beater/sprayer & I was tought back when cellulose paints were just being phased out for 2k. So I may be a little out of touch with modern techniques but I'll have a go anyway :)

Firstly I'd have keyed the surface of the helmet with something like a 320 grit, dry, assuming theres are no significant surface imperfections.

Degrease & prime, a few coats to build up a fairly thick primer coat & since its rattle can paint I'd have left it at room temp for a week to sink.

Then I'd have used a matt or satin black guide coat lightly dusted over the whole surface, it drys in a few minutes. For something as curved as the helmet I'd have used a soft block, basicly a rolled up lint free cloth, wrap it in 800 grit, dip it in water & flat the whole thing down. You can use a loose rubber squeegee to check your progress. If there are any surface imperfections the guide coat will show these up.

Assuming theres no imperfections I'd make sure its fully dry & again degreased.
Heres a free tip: at this stage & also for those wanting to check your filler work visually, you can use the degreaser to give the surface a temporary gloss finish by filling an old plastic milk bottle & making a small hole in the top, you then pour it on over the work area & visually check in the light.

Next I'd apply the colour coat, if its metallic you need to hold the can sighly further away & almost dust it on. If you go too heavy you'll cancel out the fleck & it'll look dull.
At this stage I would usually let the colour coat just flash off & then apply the clear coat straight to it.

Personally I would definately not put the decals on before the clear coat & would definately not polish the colour coat as the clear will have nothing to key too & may start to peel after a while.
With the clear coat I'd build up a few coats wet on wet (10 minute in between coats) & then let it dry. I'd then flat it all over with 1000 grit wet, degrease & clear coat again with a couple more coats.

I wouldn't worrie too much about a little orange peel its alot better than runs. Once the clear is fully dry I'd wet flat it with 1500 grit & then very lightly but evenly with 2000 grit. With a helmet I'd then polish it by hand using a soft compound like Farecla g10. I would recommend using a good quality wax polish like Autoglym super resin polish to help protect the polished clear coat as a cut painted finish can be vunerable to damage & staining. Then I'd apply the decals.

As far as the comment on the polish contaminating the paint, its fine to polish a freshly finished surface but you must not get any polish or any other material containing silicones any where near the job during paint & prep.
It causes whats called fish eyes in your paint. Fish eyes are a tiny spec or particle of silicone (usually airborn) that lands on your job during prep & paint doesnt stick to it so it leaves a small crater in the paint.

This is just the way I'd do it, I hope its some use :)
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Whoa Leigh!! That's some info!! Thanks!

Some of what you suggested is exactly what I did. As far as doing a different color (black) base coat, it's too late for that, but I don't really think that it's going to impact my overall project. I like the color that I've got even though it's a little lighter than the film color. The colored graphics look great with the blue hue that I'm applying.

I am concerned with not doing a clear coat over the graphics though because I do want to have a smooth and protective layer over them. I don't want to run my hands over the surface of the helmet and feel the edge lines of the decals.
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Whoa Leigh!! That's some info!! Thanks!

Some of what you suggested is exactly what I did. As far as doing a different color (black) base coat, it's too late for that, but I don't really think that it's going to impact my overall project. I like the color that I've got even though it's a little lighter than the film color. The colored graphics look great with the blue hue that I'm applying.

I am concerned with not doing a clear coat over the graphics though because I do want to have a smooth and protective layer over them. I don't want to run my hands over the surface of the helmet and feel the edge lines of the decals.

The black is for a guide coat. A guide coat is dusted on purely to be sanded off again during the flatting of the primer. The advatage of a guide coat is that it will stay in scratches, low spots & any other imperfections showing you where they are. You can then address those area's with either a stopper, more sanding over the whole area or more primer.

The decals thing is just How I would personally do it. If your using vinal decals they're quite thick & you'll need a very thick coat of clear to bring the surrounding area's up to the same level & then more on top of that to put a coat over everything. If you were using water slide decals there would be no problem clear coating over them other than any potential reactions between the clear & the decal. Theres also the slight possibility that if you were to degrease the colour coat prior to clear as you should having let it dry, the degreaser may wash the decals making the colours run. Hope that makes more sense :)
 
Re: My First Build!! Top Gun Moto Helmet!!

Whats happening with this, Any updates???
For some reason I feel my contribution to this thread may have brought it to a stand still :confused I'm always dubious about offering paint advise on forums.
Is everything going OK??
 
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