Tombstone Revolvers?

[SirJediKnightTim]

I'm considering picking up a Denix replica western revolver. Probably a Cold nickel plated Peacemaker.

What kind of pistols did Wyatt Earp, and Doc use in the Tombstone movie? (I saw an old thread, but all the photos where gone).

 

[IRONMAN]

Paging Mr. Wakal...

 

[PHArchivist]

Not sure if you've seen these... They are Denix.

Originally, the grips were rosewood. Rather than casting and molding, I just hit them with a HEAVY coat (multiple coats, really) of ivory spray paint.

My initial plan was to display Doc's pistols. Though I don't know the exact models he used, I DID realize that his two nickel-plated pistols are NOT the same. So I altered my plan/display to represent the stand-off we all love...

"Say when...!"

 

[SirJediKnightTim]

Not sure if you've seen these... They are Denix.

Originally, the grips were rosewood. Rather than casting and molding, I just hit them with a HEAVY coat (multiple coats, really) if ivory spray paint.

My initial plan was to display Doc's pistols. Though I don't know the exact models he used, I DID realize that his two nickel-plated pistols are NOT the same. So I altered my plan/display to represent the stand-off we all love...

"Say when...!"

Very nice! I saw your post in the old threads, but the photo was gone. Thanks for showing it again. I wanted to see it.

Those are the exact pistols that I'm looking at ordering online tonight. But only one.

I'm not sure how I will display mine. I may just leave it in a holster and belt full of bullets.

 

[PHArchivist]

Was wondering if it was my display you were refering to! Glad you like and happy to oblige. Be sure to share what you come up with.

By the way, and for what its worth, the chips were scratch built from wooden discs from a craft store; the money came from the same shop as the guns, and the cards I printed at home from some images someone was kind enough to share...

 

[SirJediKnightTim]

Was wondering if it was my display you were refering to! Glad you like and happy to oblige. Be sure to share what you come up with.

By the way, and for what its worth, the chips were scratch built from wooden discs from a craft store; the money came from the same shop as the guns, and the cards I printed at home from some images someone was kind enough to share...

Very nice touches. I especially like the cards and the money (and the pistols too!).

 

[DavidS]

lets see......
Im sure my knowledge is nowhere near that of Wakal but ill take a stab...

"Doc" had two Colt SAA (Single Action Armys) both with short 4 3/4" barrels. Both appeared to be nickel plated, however one of them, his "left hand gun" had a birds head grip instead of the standard grip....

Wyatt had whats known as a Buntline.... a really long barreled SAA.... although his in the movie only had a 10" barrel.... some of the (ahem) "real" Buntline had up to 15" barrels..... The whole "buntline" thing is a SUPER long story and they're dozens of versions of it, but thats not what this thread is about.... its about the PROPS....... Cimmarron makes a Uberti SAA clone that is an exact replica of the Tombstone Earp gun, right down to the silver "badge" inlay in the grip....... this is a really nice GUN.... not to mention a nice prop... http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/ModelP/CA558-WyattEarpBntln.htm
The case hardened version is the screen accurate one..... i considering buying one of thse and making a green felt lined case like Wyatt had his in, in the movie.........

Ringo bascially just had a ivory gripped, nickel plated 4 3/4" SAA like Doc..... the 4 3/4" barrel, even with the ejector rod was really common for the quick drawers and you see it alot in movies....... however i have heard from several sources the 5 1/2" version was historically more common........ but anyway...

hope that helps

I love this movie.... best MAN MOVIE ever....... ya got me wanting that Cimmarron again now...

 

[SirJediKnightTim]

Any photos of Wyatt's badge from the Tombstone movie?

 

[DavidS]

Im not sure if this is screeen accurate.....

 

[SirJediKnightTim]

Off subject. But has anybody watched the Spanish western starring Viggo? I want to watch it, but I don't know where it would be available. Anybody know????

 

[drusselmeyer]

BTW, you might note that the cylinders are very innaccurate. Real period revolvers had notches for the advancing locking mechanism and not long slots.

Also, the front sights are the wrong shape.

 

[gjustis]

lets see......
Wyatt had whats known as a Buntline.... a really long barreled SAA.... although his in the movie only had a 10" barrel.... some of the (ahem) "real" Buntline had up to 15" barrels..... The whole "buntline" thing is a SUPER long story and they're dozens of versions of it, but thats not what this thread is about.... its about the PROPS...

A super-long story, indeed....I like the "" around "real."

It's very likely that the real-life Earp never owned nor carried a long-barreled Buntline from Ned B....one must consider the source(s) of the notion.

Odds are, the real-world Corral shootout hosted Wyatt's standard-length sidearm...even logically-speaking, galavanting around w/ a 12" barrel is nonsensical, and thinking that someone'll whip it out in a gunfight situation is equally-so.

Of course, it makes for great movie/TV fodder...!

 

[gnrlotto]

From Wikipedia (take at own risk):

Deputy Earp was known for pistol-whipping armed cowboys before they could dispute town ordinances against carrying of firearms. It is not known what kind of pistol Wyatt carried.

The existence of Earp’s long-barreled pistol, for many years doubted, may have been a reality. The Lake biography, in describing its origin is probably incorrect, however. The story of the Buntline begins with the murder of actress Dora Hand in 1878. Hand was shot by a gentleman attempting to kill Dodge City Mayor James H. "Dog" Kelly. Dora was a guest in Kelly’s house and sleeping in his bed at the time while Kelly and wife were out of town. Dora was a celebrity in 1878, and her murder became a national story. Earp was in the posse which brought down the murderer. The story of the capture was reported in newspapers as far as New York and California.

Five men were dispatched as a posse to capture the assassin: Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, a very young Bill Tilghman, Charlie Bassett and William Duffy. Earp shot the man’s horse, and Masterson wounded the assassin, James "Spike" Kenedy, son of Texas cattleman Miflin Kenedy. The Dodge City Times called them "as intrepid a posse as ever pulled a trigger."

It is very likely that Dora’s murder and the tracking down of her assassin were the events which caused Ned Buntline to bestow the gift of the "Buntline Specials." Earp’s biography claimed the Specials were given to "famous lawmen" Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, Bill Tilghman, Charlie Bassett and Neal Brown by author Ned Buntline in return for “local color” for his western yarns. The historical problem is that neither Tilghman nor Brown was a lawman then. Further, Buntline wrote only four western yarns, all about Buffalo Bill. So, if Buntline got any “local color", he never used it.

Lake spent much effort trying to track down the Buntline Special through the Colt company and Masterson and contacts in Alaska. It was a Colt Single Action Army model with a 12-inch (30 cm) barrel, standard sights, and wooden grips into which the name “Ned” was ornately carved. Of those guns awarded, Earp was the only one who kept his the original length that it had when it was awarded to him. Masterson and the others cut the barrel down for easier concealment.

 

[gjustis]

Finally! A prop-related thread that actually involves something I'm interested in! :love

From Wikipedia (take at own risk):

The existence of Earp’s long-barreled pistol, for many years doubted, may have been a reality. The Lake biography, in describing its origin is probably incorrect, however. The story of the Buntline begins with the murder of actress Dora Hand in 1878. Hand was shot by a gentleman attempting to kill Dodge City Mayor James H. "Dog" Kelly. Dora was a guest in Kelly’s house and sleeping in his bed at the time while Kelly and wife were out of town. Dora was a celebrity in 1878, and her murder became a national story. Earp was in the posse which brought down the murderer. The story of the capture was reported in newspapers as far as New York and California.

Five men were dispatched as a posse to capture the assassin: Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, a very young Bill Tilghman, Charlie Bassett and William Duffy. Earp shot the man’s horse, and Masterson wounded the assassin, James "Spike" Kenedy, son of Texas cattleman Miflin Kenedy. The Dodge City Times called them "as intrepid a posse as ever pulled a trigger."

It is very likely that Dora’s murder and the tracking down of her assassin were the events which caused Ned Buntline to bestow the gift of the "Buntline Specials." Earp’s biography claimed the Specials were given to "famous lawmen" Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, Bill Tilghman, Charlie Bassett and Neal Brown by author Ned Buntline in return for “local color” for his western yarns. The historical problem is that neither Tilghman nor Brown was a lawman then. Further, Buntline wrote only four western yarns, all about Buffalo Bill. So, if Buntline got any “local color", he never used it.

Lake spent much effort trying to track down the Buntline Special through the Colt company and Masterson and contacts in Alaska. It was a Colt Single Action Army model with a 12-inch (30 cm) barrel, standard sights, and wooden grips into which the name “Ned” was ornately carved. Of those guns awarded, Earp was the only one who kept his the original length that it had when it was awarded to him. Masterson and the others cut the barrel down for easier concealment.

Yup, that info is taken from Jeff Morley's ('97) work. Morley's referring to Lake's Earp research, a hefty percentage of which is fairly factually problematic, and is typically noted as such by most western scholars. The above notion, that Buntline gave the lawmen revolvers as a "thank you" is specualtion at best, and at worst, a fabrication (no disrespect to Morley!)...in this case, we're talking about a number of conflicting stories, all containing historical inaccuracies, all contradictory. True, it's the BEST explanation for Buntline handing out pistols, but that's not how good historical research works.

There's a good chance that Wyatt DID own a long-barreled Colt revolver; however, it almsot certainly didn't come from Buntline, and it most definitely wasn't used at the Corral. In the OK incident, we're talking about Wyatt pulling a gun from his pocket (which he had been walking around with)...can you imagine doing that w/ a 12in. barrel?

I'm actually right in the middle of writing an article on Ned Buntline. Buntline is probably the most well-known liar of the American West. That's not to say that his contributions are unimportant (definitely not so, particularly w/ Cody's Wild West!); however, we've got to take any information coming from his general direction with an enormous grain of salt. It's amazing how Ned's life is so inextricably intertwined with the history of the Old West, yet he had very little firsthand experience with the West himself...

So, so, so off-topic...:lol

 

[jts1031]

There's a good chance that Wyatt DID own a long-barreled Colt revolver; however, it almsot certainly didn't come from Buntline, and it most definitely wasn't used at the Corral. In the OK incident, we're talking about Wyatt pulling a gun from his pocket (which he had been walking around with)...can you imagine doing that w/ a 12in. barrel?

Earp was famous for having oversized outer pockets on his coats which he had lined with rubber which made carrying a firearm easier and allowed fairly quick access. I can't see a pocket large enough to conceal a Buntline though. Maybe, just maybe, a 7.5" but I would think that would be at the limit of size.

 

[gjustis]

Earp was famous for having oversized outer pockets on his coats which he had lined with rubber which made carrying a firearm easier and allowed fairly quick access. I can't see a pocket large enough to conceal a Buntline though. Maybe, just maybe, a 7.5" but I would think that would be at the limit of size.

Sure...and again, if we're tellin' tales, we're talking about walking around with a 12" barrel, which makes for a 15" pistol. That's not to mention the issue of producing such a sidearm with relative ease...logic dictates that yes, it was probably a 7.5" barrel at best.

15" = uncomfortable to sit down for a game of cards...

 

[DavidS]

i do find it interesting that in the Tombstone movie they sorta sized it back to 10 inches, which is still really long....

Ive even heard of "buntlines" up to 15 inches which is absurd....

The only "real" gun i have seen or read about wyatt carrying was a Schofield.......

btw, no a similar note, what did Kevin Costner used in the "Wyatt Earp" movie....... sorry, i feel asleep thru that one and cant remember...

 

[gjustis]

sorry, i feel asleep thru that one and cant remember...

:lol

 

[jts1031]

Uberti actually makes a Buntline that has an 18 inch barrel. Talk about trouble aiming... They also make it with a walnut butt stock which would be a necessity I'd think.

 

[HellGhost]

Conversely you could just buy the real guns and watches and such I have the newspaper from the day of the shoot out, a few rifles and some Arizona ranger badges, But I had to take the display down a bit ago when I was out of town...lock it up and all. So pardon the boring display.:redface

Finally! A prop-related thread that actually involves something I'm interested in! :love



Yup, that info is taken from Jeff Morley's ('97) work. Morley's referring to Lake's Earp research, a hefty percentage of which is fairly factually problematic, and is typically noted as such by most western scholars. The above notion, that Buntline gave the lawmen revolvers as a "thank you" is specualtion at best, and at worst, a fabrication (no disrespect to Morley!)...in this case, we're talking about a number of conflicting stories, all containing historical inaccuracies, all contradictory. True, it's the BEST explanation for Buntline handing out pistols, but that's not how good historical research works.

There's a good chance that Wyatt DID own a long-barreled Colt revolver; however, it almsot certainly didn't come from Buntline, and it most definitely wasn't used at the Corral. In the OK incident, we're talking about Wyatt pulling a gun from his pocket (which he had been walking around with)...can you imagine doing that w/ a 12in. barrel?

I'm actually right in the middle of writing an article on Ned Buntline. Buntline is probably the most well-known liar of the American West. That's not to say that his contributions are unimportant (definitely not so, particularly w/ Cody's Wild West!); however, we've got to take any information coming from his general direction with an enormous grain of salt. It's amazing how Ned's life is so inextricably intertwined with the history of the Old West, yet he had very little firsthand experience with the West himself...

So, so, so off-topic...:lol