Things you're tired of seeing in movies

[squirrelstailor]

I think a lot of this comes back to how much technology has changed and how quickly it has changed. I’m fairly confident that a WW1 pilot could, eventually, figure out how a similarly sized plane from WW2 worked. But say, a modern stealth bomber, or a drone? Too much of a leap. At one point in time it was possible to have a general working knowledge of a lot of different fields, but the more specialized and tech-reliant they become, the harder it can be to suspend disbelief.

It is harder than you think because the famous check list that you see used by all pilots actually came about because planes got to complicated to start and stop without blowing up or crashing.

You're talking to someone who stopped watching Where Eagles Dare (I think that's it) in the first few minutes because the opening shot has a helicopter in it that wasn't from WW2! Everyone said it's good so I'll have to try to watch it again.

You really should it a very good popcorn movie. I think it the one Quentin is ripping off in Once Upon A Time In LA. Lol, we should have a conversation about the Dark Knight Returns however it requires alcohol.

And following on that, I think I mentioned this before, wives/girlfriends of intel agents or special forces who throw a hissy fit because they aren't being told where the husband/boyfriend is going. WTH? It's so dumb! They KNOW that's exactly the situation they are getting into with that person!!!

I have one that like this that I notice after Jocko Willink pointed it out and that is the highly trained Special Forces soldier who suddenly doubts the war and why it is being fought.

I was watching a SEAL Team episode and they had the SAS in it and 2 things bugged the hell out of me.
1) Wrong guns for the SAS. Which is really annoying because they have had the right guns on the show or the non-silenced version.
2) The SAS doing double taps like the SEALs when the SAS triple tap bugged the hell out of me.

 

[p51]

I was watching a SEAL Team episode

Well, there you go right there. I never worked with SEALs (or really anything Naval to speak of) I the military, but I have worked around some SOCOM types and I tried watching that SEAL show a couple of times.
Beats me why, but they always have SEALs pontificating and saying stuff I've never heard a pal of mine who was a SEAL ever say. I've never heard any SOCOM folks talking like that. One episode of the show I watched, you could have made a drinking game out of each time someone said, "Tier One operator," which is a phrase I've never heard someone who could called this actually say.
It was also one of the things about the "Act of Valor" movie that drove me nuts.

 

[squirrelstailor]

Well, there you go right there. I never worked with SEALs (or really anything Naval to speak of) I the military, but I have worked around some SOCOM types and I tried watching that SEAL show a couple of times.
Beats me why, but they always have SEALs pontificating and saying stuff I've never heard a pal of mine who was a SEAL ever say. I've never heard any SOCOM folks talking like that. One episode of the show I watched, you could have made a drinking game out of each time someone said, "Tier One operator," which is a phrase I've never heard someone who could called this actually say.
It was also one of the things about the "Act of Valor" movie that drove me nuts.

I have heard Jocko Willink say something about this and I cannot remember what it was however it basically came down to they do not use those expressions when talking about themselves. In fact a few times they have caught false valour people because they say I am a SEAL or a Tier One operator.
Also I think the anti-officer stuff makes no sense in the real world because they have officers like Jocko Willink so it sort of strange.
It good escapist entertainment however it in no way real. I think it amazing how long David Boreanaz and other actors can keep me watching stuff.
I have already mentioned that in American Sniper for example they have a SEAL have a conversation doubting the mission and why they are fighting a war.

 

[Strikerkc]

Jocko has had a few "movie scene breakdown" videos with entertainment companies on youtube, and occasionally he's like "there's **** we do that I'm not telling you." sometimes it's as simple as code words/protocols for using grenades, other times it's capabilities and timetables, other times it's higher level stuff.

 

[squirrelstailor]

Jocko has had a few "movie scene breakdown" videos with entertainment companies on youtube, and occasionally he's like "there's **** we do that I'm not telling you." sometimes it's as simple as code words/protocols for using grenades, other times it's capabilities and timetables, other times it's higher level stuff.

The best one is the American Sniper scene which is used a lot and he basically goes that is wrong. The sniper scene is a sniper and his spotter on a building which is what you would expect except they were actually support sections so there would have been loads of other SEALs there. A fact I knew because I had heard Jocko talk about it before and as he was his boss at the time he would know.
I really want him to review that book as it is what his podcast is mostly about.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

The best one is the American Sniper scene which is used a lot and he basically goes that is wrong. The sniper scene is a sniper and his spotter on a building which is what you would expect except they were actually support sections so there would have been loads of other SEALs there. A fact I knew because I had heard Jocko talk about it before and as he was his boss at the time he would know.
I really want him to review that book as it is what his podcast is mostly about.

I think I saw that exact video you're talking about. That's what I always assumed, that they would have a support element.

I just wish they would hire more military consultants on these shows. There is one other SEAL on Youtube, I forget his name, but it's a black guy. He does similar videos about what they got right or wrong. So there are specops guys (U.S. and SAS) available to do consulting work. I can get that back in pre-1970s they weren't worried about realism, but I think it's easy to do now. One thing I remember that bugged me is WW2 bomber crews going "Pilot to bombadier." or "Pilot to tailgunner..." because I thought they would know each other so you'd call out their name. I then read a book about bomber crews and the guy (a pilot) mentioned that it bugged him because he said they knew each other so they'd just say, for example "Bill, bandit 2 o'clock!"

 

[Riceball]

One thing I remember that bugged me is WW2 bomber crews going "Pilot to bombadier." or "Pilot to tailgunner..." because I thought they would know each other so you'd call out their name. I then read a book about bomber crews and the guy (a pilot) mentioned that it bugged him because he said they knew each other so they'd just say, for example "Bill, bandit 2 o'clock!"

I think that probably came from training films and/or manuals. I wouldn't be surprised if, technically, that's what you're supposed to do when going by the book. For some reason, I seem to recall seeing a training film with those sorts of lines in it because I can hear it in those fake voices and stilted acting you see in a lot of these training films.

 

[squirrelstailor]

I think I saw that exact video you're talking about. That's what I always assumed, that they would have a support element.

They literally were the support element which the snipers were part of. It one of the other things that is off in SEAL team is that they tend to all carry M16 when in reality SEALs are big fans of machine guns like M60 and Stoners. Not for CQB obviously.

I just wish they would hire more military consultants on these shows. There is one other SEAL on Youtube, I forget his name, but it's a black guy. He does similar videos about what they got right or wrong. So there are specops guys (U.S. and SAS) available to do consulting work. I can get that back in pre-1970s they weren't worried about realism, but I think it's easy to do now. One thing I remember that bugged me is WW2 bomber crews going "Pilot to bombadier." or "Pilot to tailgunner..." because I thought they would know each other so you'd call out their name. I then read a book about bomber crews and the guy (a pilot) mentioned that it bugged him because he said they knew each other so they'd just say, for example "Bill, bandit 2 o'clock!"

The military consultant on A Bridge Too Far was Colonel John Frost who was played by Sir Anthony Hopkins in the film and he pointed out that British Officers do not run and you can watch Anthony Hopkins run in the movie. Just to make that clear the military consultant was the actual guy and they still did not listen to him.

 

[Riceball]

They literally were the support element which the snipers were part of. It one of the other things that is off in SEAL team is that they tend to all carry M16 when in reality SEALs are big fans of machine guns like M60 and Stoners. Not for CQB obviously.


The military consultant on A Bridge Too Far was Colonel John Frost who was played by Sir Anthony Hopkins in the film and he pointed out that British Officers do not run and you can watch Anthony Hopkins run in the movie. Just to make that clear the military consultant was the actual guy and they still did not listen to him.

I'm not sure that SEALs still carry Stoners, I'm pretty sure that was a just Vietnam thing. I don't believe they make Stoners anymore and parts would probably hard to come by and any legacy Stoners still in the armory would be like the 1911s that the Marines kept around for years after the adoption of the M9, old and worn out.

I've seen a video talking about the whole British officers don't run thing in a Bridge Too Far. I think that the director chose to have Anthony Hopkins run because it looked more believable. I'm pretty sure that most audiences would have looked at someone just walking through a firefight as a bit ridiculous and hard to believe, whether the actual person did it in real life or not.

 

[squirrelstailor]

I'm not sure that SEALs still carry Stoners, I'm pretty sure that was a just Vietnam thing. I don't believe they make Stoners anymore and parts would probably hard to come by and any legacy Stoners still in the armory would be like the 1911s that the Marines kept around for years after the adoption of the M9, old and worn out.

You might be right however my US gun knowledge hit a GPMG wall of there only being M60 or Stoners. For some reason I forget the SAW which is my limit. There are some true stories of a group of SEALs bringing a massive amount of fire towards a large amount of enemy.
That said I think if the SEALs wanted to keep anything running made out of metal they would have no problem due to having access to the Navy metal workers who can basically make anything from scratch.

I've seen a video talking about the whole British officers don't run thing in a Bridge Too Far. I think that the director chose to have Anthony Hopkins run because it looked more believable. I'm pretty sure that most audiences would have looked at someone just walking through a firefight as a bit ridiculous and hard to believe, whether the actual person did it in real life or not.

Yeah they made that argument however the real person made the point that if you are in charge and run you look like you are panicking so it is bad for morale. There are some truly amazing times Officers have walked about a battlefield and not died.

 

[Riceball]

You might be right however my US gun knowledge hit a GPMG wall of there only being M60 or Stoners. For some reason I forget the SAW which is my limit. There are some true stories of a group of SEALs bringing a massive amount of fire towards a large amount of enemy.
That said I think if the SEALs wanted to keep anything running made out of metal they would have no problem due to having access to the Navy metal workers who can basically make anything from scratch.

I'm pretty sure that the Stoner is long out of the SEAL's inventory. I doubt that the armorers have time or the facilities to be making replacement parts for them, that's a lot of time and effort to be putting in. I think that now a days, they're using SAWs (M249s) along with the SCAR17, heard nobody really cares for the SCAR-16. But I think that most SEALs carry M4s or M16s though, although they would certainly have at least 1 or 2 machine gunners in each platoon, I think SEALs do run heavy by doctrine.

 

[p51]

I've seen a video talking about the whole British officers don't run thing in a Bridge Too Far. I think that the director chose to have Anthony Hopkins run because it looked more believable. I'm pretty sure that most audiences would have looked at someone just walking through a firefight as a bit ridiculous and hard to believe, whether the actual person did it in real life or not.

The director wants what they want. I've done consulting on two independent films and my advice we ignored every time. I walked out on one a few years ago and demanded my name not make it to the credits.

 

[squirrelstailor]

I'm pretty sure that the Stoner is long out of the SEAL's inventory. I doubt that the armorers have time or the facilities to be making replacement parts for them, that's a lot of time and effort to be putting in. I think that now a days, they're using SAWs (M249s) along with the SCAR17, heard nobody really cares for the SCAR-16. But I think that most SEALs carry M4s or M16s though, although they would certainly have at least 1 or 2 machine gunners in each platoon, I think SEALs do run heavy by doctrine.

I think apart from the snipers, medic and commander everyone else is armed with some form of heavy weapon. The point is if they get in a gun fight they punch massively over their weight. They are massively influenced by Vietnam even now so even when they go not looking for a fight, they pack for overwhelming force. They have had a few SEALs on Jocko's podcast and they all have stories of the overwhelming force carried.

The director wants what they want. I've done consulting on two independent films and my advice we ignored every time. I walked out on one a few years ago and demanded my name not make it to the credits.

I have heard a few tales like this now were people have gone why hire me if you are not going to ignore me. It sounds like on A Discovery of Witches they are really listening and explaining why they cannot do certain things. The Author is heavily involved and she is an expert herself so it hard for them not to listen.

 

[p51]

I think apart from the snipers, medic and commander everyone else is armed with some form of heavy weapon. The point is if they get in a gun fight they punch massively over their weight. They are massively influenced by Vietnam even now so even when they go not looking for a fight, they pack for overwhelming force. They have had a few SEALs on Jocko's podcast and they all have stories of the overwhelming force carried.

Keep in mind, those people are usually on their own and do not count on re-supply. Eve n in basic infantry training, you're supposed to bring everything you might possibly need. If you might needed it and it makes a boom sound, Sarge is gonna make sure you stuffed as many into your rucksack as you can.
When you get there, you won't have enough food or water (which is okay, because one thing I noticed was every time Private Elmo sits down with an MRE, some NCO will come up and make him do something else), batteries for your NVGs or a change of clothes because all that ammo and weapon leaning gear can't be left behind. back in my day, there was also a strong emphasis on NBC (chem gear), so you always had your mask/hood, NBC suit and your M8 alarms somewhere at arm's length.

 

[squirrelstailor]

Keep in mind, those people are usually on their own and do not count on re-supply. Eve n in basic infantry training, you're supposed to bring everything you might possibly need. If you might needed it and it makes a boom sound, Sarge is gonna make sure you stuffed as many into your rucksack as you can.

Spec Ops are a completely different animal.

When you get there, you won't have enough food or water (which is okay, because one thing I noticed was every time Private Elmo sits down with an MRE, some NCO will come up and make him do something else), batteries for your NVGs or a change of clothes because all that ammo and weapon leaning gear can't be left behind. back in my day, there was also a strong emphasis on NBC (chem gear), so you always had your mask/hood, NBC suit and your M8 alarms somewhere at arm's length.

Lightweight hiking has not made its way to the military yet.

 

[Riceball]

Lightweight hiking has not made its way to the military yet.

Definitely not. The running joke (or not joke) is that every time the military finds a way to lighten a piece of gear, they find the equivalent amount of new gear to issue out to the troops. So, in the end, even if you get a new lighter ballistic plate or helmet, the brass will give you some new widget that weighs just as much or issue more ammo to make up for the weight difference.

One thing, though, that I've read that the Army has finally done to lighten the load is to get rid of the old shelter half. Those things were made out of a heavy canvas material and weighed a ton. They were also a pain to assemble, you literally needed two of them since each person only got half a shelter and once together, it formed nothing more than a puny pup tent that two average sized people could barely squeeze into. The Marine Corps used the same stupid things and I got to test a new single person tent they were looking at during boot camp or MCT (forget which it was) but never did get issued one before I got out and I still don't know if the Corps ever replaced their stupid shelter halves with these tents. I know that the Army, despite their deep pockets, only did so fairly recently.

 

[p51]

Definitely not. The running joke (or not joke) is that every time the military finds a way to lighten a piece of gear, they find the equivalent amount of new gear to issue out to the troops. So, in the end, even if you get a new lighter ballistic plate or helmet, the brass will give you some new widget that weighs just as much or issue more ammo to make up for the weight difference.

I served with someone who worked at Natick, where they design all this stuff. He assured me that there are indeed people from the combat arms branches demanding that any weight saved gets made up with something else.
The buzz word for anything heavier was to be that it was better spaced over the wearer's back or somehow it was of a tactical nature that superseded the weight increase. There was an Infantry LtCol who especially pushed this, with the standard line of "I had to carry that much weight back in the day, so why should it be lighter now?" I think they teach this backward logic at the advanced branch course or CGSC.

One thing, though, that I've read that the Army has finally done to lighten the load is to get rid of the old shelter half. Those things were made out of a heavy canvas material and weighed a ton. They were also a pain to assemble, you literally needed two of them since each person only got half a shelter and once together, it formed nothing more than a puny pup tent that two average sized people could barely squeeze into. The Marine Corps used the same stupid things and I got to test a new single person tent they were looking at during boot camp or MCT (forget which it was) but never did get issued one before I got out and I still don't know if the Corps ever replaced their stupid shelter halves with these tents. I know that the Army, despite their deep pockets, only did so fairly recently.

Glad to hear that. The only time we ever took shelter halves out was when we'd go to NTC as they were required there. But it never failed there was always someone with just the one. I don't recall us carrying them to JRTC the one time I went there as I got as sick as I'd ever been as soon as we got there and I never went into the maneuver box there.
Good NCOs carried a few extras for that case. If you were the odd solider out with extra space, the other half always got stuffed with gear from others and that soldier usually got less space than if they shared it with another soldier.
If they got rained on, you dared not touch the inside of one, because where you'd touch it when wet, it'd start dripping from that spot.
Usually, we'd just rack out inside our LMTV trucks, the backs of Humvees or cargo Hemmets (or sometimes underneath the fuel tankers, as NCOs usually wouldn't come close to you, then).
We had an ancient shop expando-van M35 series truck and I'd usually rack out there (cursing my soldiers under my breath for playing dominoes until the wee hours of the morning each night, having once bet set straight by my first Platoon SGT for asking them to call it a night early).
FYI, I was an officer. Unlike in the movies, officers really don't get to tell NCOs much (not if they're smart, anyway) and have to work around them often.

 

[squirrelstailor]

One thing, though, that I've read that the Army has finally done to lighten the load is to get rid of the old shelter half.

Weird, maybe it just got ignored because no one used it. I am amazed considering how high tech a lot of the other kit is that it survived that long. It could be a fire resistant thing as nylon really burns until recent coatings.

If they got rained on, you dared not touch the inside of one, because where you'd touch it when wet, it'd start dripping from that spot.

That takes me back used to spent a lot of my early life shouting at idiots not to do that on Scout camps.

 

[Riceball]

Weird, maybe it just got ignored because no one used it. I am amazed considering how high tech a lot of the other kit is that it survived that long. It could be a fire resistant thing as nylon really burns until recent coatings.

Who knows. All I know is that the old shelter halves were heavy and useless. I don't think that the shelter halves had changed much since at least WWI, if not earlier. The only change to them in decades was probably metal V shaped tent stakes instead of something like wooden ones. The decision to take so long to replace them was probably made by someone who never had to use them. I think that most troops avoided using them as much as possible because they were heavy and a pain to assemble.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I seem to recall hearing a story about Desert Storm (I think) and lightening the Army version of the M60. (I think Army). Anyway I guess they made a new version that was lighter because it was peacetime and they wanted something lighter to lug around during training. The problem was the barrel was too thin and wore out too quickly or something so they had to go the Marines to get the old barrels to have a functioning gun. That may or may not be correct.