Things you're tired of seeing in movies

Which goes back to one of my earlier gripes in where people in armor are constantly being killed by a slice across their gut with a sword completely disregarding the fact that most armor protects the wearer from those kinds of attacks very well. Not even the best katana ever made with their reputation for sharpness can slice through mail much less plate armor, leather maybe but certainly not anything more than that.

The katana could, with sufficient force, break through Japanese armor from the sengoku era, but more in a cleaving motion. There are modern demonstrations of sword arts practitioners cutting through a kabuto, for example. But you wouldn't really expect to see it regularly, and a blow to the body wouldn't do it.

Swords cutting through armor -- even chain mail -- would have to be something like a claymore or nodachi or whathaveyou, and even then, they wouldn't really work that well against full plate unless you were attacking a joint like the elbow or armpit. Even so, as you say, you'd really need a polearm or blunt weapon, or something pointed, strong, and moving with sufficient force to pierce the plate (like a crossbow bolt).

While we're on the subject of ancient warfare, how about in nearly every period piece set in the pre-gunpowder age where everyone is a swordsman even though the primary weapon of every ancient culture was either a spear or, in the case of the samurai, a bow. This is especially true in ancient times like ancient Greece & Rome where armies fought in tight formations hiding behind a shield with a spear poking out and swords being used only if their spears are broken or are too close for spears. The standard practice for Roman legions was for every legionnaire to carry at least 2 pilums (javelins) and use those first before engaging with swords. Even Japan tends to get this wrong with depicting samurai using their swords instead of bows and various pole arms which was often the norm.

Actually, there are some movies I've seen that do a good job with this. Heaven & Earth (Ten to Chi to) showed plenty of yari-wielding troop formations in its depiction of the 4th battle of Kawanakajima. Most of the samurai cinema I've watched dealt with unarmored samurai and such, so it's reasonable to see them wielding swords.
 
The katana could, with sufficient force, break through Japanese armor from the sengoku era, but more in a cleaving motion. There are modern demonstrations of sword arts practitioners cutting through a kabuto, for example. But you wouldn't really expect to see it regularly, and a blow to the body wouldn't do it.

Swords cutting through armor -- even chain mail -- would have to be something like a claymore or nodachi or whathaveyou, and even then, they wouldn't really work that well against full plate unless you were attacking a joint like the elbow or armpit. Even so, as you say, you'd really need a polearm or blunt weapon, or something pointed, strong, and moving with sufficient force to pierce the plate (like a crossbow bolt).

Oh, I realize that some swords could break through armor but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about those scenes where the hero comes across an opponent, swings at the opponents gut, lands the hit and then proceeds to slice across the belly like the sword would actually cut the armor open even further and thus (persumabley) disembowling his opponent.
 
Oh, I realize that some swords could break through armor but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about those scenes where the hero comes across an opponent, swings at the opponents gut, lands the hit and then proceeds to slice across the belly like the sword would actually cut the armor open even further and thus (persumabley) disembowling his opponent.

I honestly haven't see that a ton. I'm trying to think of examples of that, and I'm just drawing a blank.
 
I honestly haven't see that a ton. I'm trying to think of examples of that, and I'm just drawing a blank.

I know I've seen in it the Conan movies and I'm pretty certain that I've seen it done in Kingdom of Heaven as well, there are others I'm sure but those are the only ones I recall off the top of my head. I've seen it in just about every movie and TV involving people fighting with swords while wearing armor, it's like the Wilhelm Scream of sword fight choreography.

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I know I've seen in it the Conan movies and I'm pretty certain that I've seen it done in Kingdom of Heaven as well, there are others I'm sure but those are the only ones I recall off the top of my head. I've seen it in just about every movie and TV involving people fighting with swords while wearing armor, it's like the Wilhelm Scream of sword fight choreography.

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I don't recall a lot of armor being used in the first Conan film. Besides, the sword wasn't exactly a rapier - it was a 6 lb behemoth.

The one that you should reference is Excalibur. One handed swords and axes against full plate armor.
 
The mild-mannered main character who hardly ever threw a punch in their entire life not only acquires superhuman strength, speed and agility but instantly gains a full set of complex martial arts skills as well.
More commonly I think the guy musters the will to throw one punch that knocks the opponent out cold.
 
I don't recall a lot of armor being used in the first Conan film. Besides, the sword wasn't exactly a rapier - it was a 6 lb behemoth.

The one that you should reference is Excalibur. One handed swords and axes against full plate armor.

Even with a massive sword you're still not going to simply slice through anything heavier than leather armor and that's what I'm talking about, not hacking or chopping but cutting like they do with those palm slicing moves I griped about earlier.

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This is especially true in ancient times like ancient Greece & Rome where armies fought in tight formations hiding behind a shield with a spear poking out and swords being used only if their spears are broken or are too close for spears. The standard practice for Roman legions was for every legionnaire to carry at least 2 pilums (javelins) and use those first before engaging with swords. Even Japan tends to get this wrong with depicting samurai using their swords instead of bows and various pole arms which was often the norm.
That was, I believe, called a "phalanx." It was typically 10 men x 10 men (100 men - from which we get "centurion," their commander,) armed with kite shields and a pair of /pila/, or barbed spears designed to break. When in formation, the men on the front rank and two side files would hold their shields vertically, the men within the formation would hold their shields horizontally above their heads, to protect against archers. Yep - this was probably the earliest form of an "armored vehicle" - even though it was foot-powered. The /pilum/ was barbed to be retained in the victim and break loose from the haft - the haft typically had a broken end, so it could still be used as a spear - and each man had a spare /pilum/ to be armed with as well. (It is from the 10x10 formation of the phalanx that "decimation" is derived - in the case of unit-level discipline being necessary, the phalanx was formed out. The centurion was told to pick a number between one and ten inclusive, and /his/ commander would count files starting from a random point until he reached the number given. Every man in that file would be executed. Therefore, "decimation" is a reduction by PRECISELY one-tenth - no more, and no less. Makes me itch when people talk about killing half of a group as a "decimation" - which is very much is NOT...)
 
This may have been mentioned, but large space explosions that give off a ring of something. Energy I guess, I don't know. I think it started with one of the Star Wars revisions when the Death Star exploded. Now you see it all the time. This is a sub-branch of fiery explosions because they usually include something burning, which it shouldn't.
ALIEN, 1979. Destruction of the /Nostromo/, as watched from the /Narcissus/. Not necessarily impossible to get that annular effect, tho, you could have an inadvertent "shaped charge" effect as a result of ship construction, payload layout, or powerplant & shielding construction. But, unless you're dealing with white phosphorous or thermite, using a nap bomb to simulate a frag exploding is overdoing it. Speaking of - I'm sick to my teeth of vehicles exploding for no good reason. (Although this was lampshaded to humourous effect in "Top Secret," as I recall...)
 
Even with a massive sword you're still not going to simply slice through anything heavier than leather armor and that's what I'm talking about, not hacking or chopping but cutting like they do with those palm slicing moves I griped about earlier.

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I don't think anybody was wearing anything heavier than leather armor in Conan.

(...It goes without saying there is only one Conan movie)
 
That was, I believe, called a "phalanx." It was typically 10 men x 10 men (100 men - from which we get "centurion," their commander,) armed with kite shields and a pair of /pila/, or barbed spears designed to break. When in formation, the men on the front rank and two side files would hold their shields vertically, the men within the formation would hold their shields horizontally above their heads, to protect against archers. Yep - this was probably the earliest form of an "armored vehicle" - even though it was foot-powered. The /pilum/ was barbed to be retained in the victim and break loose from the haft - the haft typically had a broken end, so it could still be used as a spear - and each man had a spare /pilum/ to be armed with as well. (It is from the 10x10 formation of the phalanx that "decimation" is derived - in the case of unit-level discipline being necessary, the phalanx was formed out. The centurion was told to pick a number between one and ten inclusive, and /his/ commander would count files starting from a random point until he reached the number given. Every man in that file would be executed. Therefore, "decimation" is a reduction by PRECISELY one-tenth - no more, and no less. Makes me itch when people talk about killing half of a group as a "decimation" - which is very much is NOT...)

The Greeks did use the phalanx, but not the Romans, not at least during the time of Caesar and on, by the time they developed the Legions as we know it they tended to vary their formations as needed depending on the opponent and the terrain.

As for the pilum, to the best of my knowledge it wasn't barbed, it instead had a relatively soft metal shaft behind the head that would bend when stuck in an opponent's shield after being thrown. The reason for the bending was so that it wouldn't be so easy to pull out of the shield and the person bearing the shield would either have to spend some time and effort to pull the pilum out or simply ditch their shield, either way making them more vulnerable to follow on volleys. I've also read that a secondary purpose was so that they couldn't be thrown back at the Romans if they did get pulled out since, apparently, the shafts couldn't be straightened back again without a blacksmith and a forge.

In regards to decimation, you got the definition partially right, it was a punishment for a unit that ran in battle in where every 10th man would be put to death by his fellow Legionnaires.
 
The Greeks did use the phalanx, but not the Romans, not at least during the time of Caesar and on, by the time they developed the Legions as we know it they tended to vary their formations as needed depending on the opponent and the terrain. As for the pilum, to the best of my knowledge it wasn't barbed, it instead had a relatively soft metal shaft behind the head that would bend when stuck in an opponent's shield after being thrown. The reason for the bending was so that it wouldn't be so easy to pull out of the shield and the person bearing the shield would either have to spend some time and effort to pull the pilum out or simply ditch their shield, either way making them more vulnerable to follow on volleys. I've also read that a secondary purpose was so that they couldn't be thrown back at the Romans if they did get pulled out since, apparently, the shafts couldn't be straightened back again without a blacksmith and a forge. In regards to decimation, you got the definition partially right, it was a punishment for a unit that ran in battle in where every 10th man would be put to death by his fellow Legionnaires.
Thanks for the corrections - my "detailed" knowledge of history follow more "US military history, 1950-forward." :)
 
The Greeks did use the phalanx, but not the Romans, not at least during the time of Caesar and on, by the time they developed the Legions as we know it they tended to vary their formations as needed depending on the opponent and the terrain.

As for the pilum, to the best of my knowledge it wasn't barbed, it instead had a relatively soft metal shaft behind the head that would bend when stuck in an opponent's shield after being thrown. The reason for the bending was so that it wouldn't be so easy to pull out of the shield and the person bearing the shield would either have to spend some time and effort to pull the pilum out or simply ditch their shield, either way making them more vulnerable to follow on volleys. I've also read that a secondary purpose was so that they couldn't be thrown back at the Romans if they did get pulled out since, apparently, the shafts couldn't be straightened back again without a blacksmith and a forge.

In regards to decimation, you got the definition partially right, it was a punishment for a unit that ran in battle in where every 10th man would be put to death by his fellow Legionnaires.

Most ancient armies used some kind of close formation. Probably discovered in very archaic times by those guys who would stick around the huge guy with the massive club nobody dared attack, they figured that if you have a buddy on either side a few behind you, Your task assigned in a combat situation becomes that much easier, just stab the guy in front of you rather than develop eyes on your back and avoid being stabbed in the back in the middle of a mob.

Now the Greeks perfected the system by having heavily armoured soldiers in full armour with a wonking big shield and a spear ramming into each other. It is believed that most ancient battles would have some kind of stand off distance so you could throw spears, javelins and curses at each other. Fighting may have been done on a more local level with groups surging against each other before falling back to catch a breath, sort out the wounded and bring up more men from the rear. Because the Greeks were so well equipped they went for the Othismos, often translated as a "push". Some think it was akin to a rugby scrum with both sides simply locking shields and pushing until one side gave way, others believe that such pushing would crush and suffocate people and that othismos-push was more of a figure of speech not to be taken literally.

Standard Greek phalanx formations were usually 8 man deep, but the Macedonians turned it into a steamroller by making it much deeper and giving each soldier a long pike five meters or longer in length, which presented a wall of spears to any who tried to take it head on.

Phalanx formations were very powerful, but they were unwieldy as it required troops to keep aligned to preserve the protection of the locked shields, hard to do on broken terrain or with a bunch of dead and wounded solders and a lot of sharp spears and swords on the ground underneath you.

The Romans also used the Phalanx in the early days, but they developed a different system of three lines divided in smaller units called maniples that operated independently and no longer relied on linking up with the rest of the army to be effective. The Romans even left gaps in the line so they could manoeuvre their troops back and forth if required and either allow you to fall back and reform the line if the enemy was strong or allow the second and third lines to join in the fun if the enemy started to weaken. Instead of the spear the Romans used the pilum, a special javelin that had a long thin barbed head that would pierce shields and armour, once through the head would bend and the barb made it hard to pull out. If it got stuck in your shield it would imbalance it, making it useless and the bent head made it nearly impossible to pick up and throw back at the enemy. A few thousand Roman soldiers throwing a pilum at an enemy force would disrupt them before the clash, where the Romans used a short stabbing sword, ideal for close quarter combat. If the phalanx was a pincushion, the Roman legion was a buzzsaw ...
 
Ancient battles, you see the (usually) Romans march up in perfect formation, the other army usually being "freedom fighting" barbarians with no concept of formation and just charge, but no matter what happens after the initial clash between mob and perfectly formed troops, they end up scattered homogeneously across the battlefield duelling away.

Cavalry gallops at full speed towards the enemy over a huge distance, they crash into the enemy and then it's back to mob fighting again, where any idiot with a spear can stab your horse and put you on the ground.

Medieval battles where the armies hurl huge fireballs at each other. Yes, there was such a thing as Greek fire, but it was rarely used in battle and it certain wasn't used and didn't look like you were bombarding the enemy with napalm bombs.

Twin tracks in ancient and medieval times because they used trucks rather than horse drawn carts right ?
 
Ancient battles, you see the (usually) Romans march up in perfect formation, the other army usually being "freedom fighting" barbarians with no concept of formation and just charge, but no matter what happens after the initial clash between mob and perfectly formed troops, they end up scattered homogeneously across the battlefield duelling away.

The TV series Rome did a great job with this in one of the first episodes, where they showed the battle from within the Roman formation, with Pullo the legionnaire being yelled at (as I recall) by his centurion, Vorenus, for breaking formation just to kill a German. The implication being DO NOT BREAK FORMATION. It's actually a really interesting take on the battle. Compared to the opening sequence of Gladiator, it's particularly interesting to see the formation maintain itself throughout the battle, as opposed to how in Gladiator, it goes as you describe -- disciplined formations that devolve into a chaotic melee.

Cavalry gallops at full speed towards the enemy over a huge distance, they crash into the enemy and then it's back to mob fighting again, where any idiot with a spear can stab your horse and put you on the ground.

Yeah, this one always kinda bugs me. Cavalry is supposed to approach at a brisk walk, leading into a trot, and only going to full gallop towards the end so as to preserve the horse's endurance and ensure maximum impact AS WELL AS the ability to get yourself the hell out of there so that your horse isn't blown after the initial contact. For reasons why this is a bad thing, see also: The Charge of the Light Brigade, and the death of William Ponsonby (and the charge of the Scots Greys) at the Battle of Waterloo.
 
The TV series Rome did a great job with this in one of the first episodes, where they showed the battle from within the Roman formation, with Pullo the legionnaire being yelled at (as I recall) by his centurion, Vorenus, for breaking formation just to kill a German. The implication being DO NOT BREAK FORMATION. It's actually a really interesting take on the battle. Compared to the opening sequence of Gladiator, it's particularly interesting to see the formation maintain itself throughout the battle, as opposed to how in Gladiator, it goes as you describe -- disciplined formations that devolve into a chaotic melee.

Iirc, another thing that Rome got right was in showing the Centurion ordering the rotation of the troops at the very front of the formation; another thing that the Romans did different from other formation fighters like the Greeks. Whereas in a formation like the phalanx where the warriors at the front of the formation would typically fight until they either won or could fight no more the Romans would instead rotate their front fighters at regular intervals, when the signal is given the Legionnaire at the front would give way to the man directly behind him and head to the back of the formation where they would catch their breath and take a break from the fighting and gradually move up the formation until they were at the front again by which time they would be (relatively) fresh.
 
Iirc, another thing that Rome got right was in showing the Centurion ordering the rotation of the troops at the very front of the formation; another thing that the Romans did different from other formation fighters like the Greeks. Whereas in a formation like the phalanx where the warriors at the front of the formation would typically fight until they either won or could fight no more the Romans would instead rotate their front fighters at regular intervals, when the signal is given the Legionnaire at the front would give way to the man directly behind him and head to the back of the formation where they would catch their breath and take a break from the fighting and gradually move up the formation until they were at the front again by which time they would be (relatively) fresh.

Yep! That happens in the same episode. Very cool to watch.
 
Trains in movies that hit cars and other objects and then just keep going. Yeah, a long freight going a decent speed takes a long time to stop, but the crew who hit the BTTF Delorean would have immediately done an emergency brake application, they could have had that train stopped on the other side of Eastwood ravine for the length of the train they had. Also, nobody was there investigating the incident when Marty came back later?
You see this in movies all the time. Trains just don't keep going, the crews really do hit the brakes right away! Sheesh, at least that Subway in Matrix stopped when it hit Agent Smith...
 
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