Things you're tired of seeing in movies

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ScourgiousJinx

Active Member
The thing that you're forgetting is that the big studios aren't in the business of making good movies, they're in the business of making money. So if they release a film that some consider garbage but is a box office hit then they're happy. Now, if a movie is both a critical and box office success, so much the better, but it's hardly a requirement. To most studios, I don't even think that an Oscar or a nomination means much except as something to add to their marketing campaign to increase ticket sales.

Something else to bear in mind is that your big tent pole movies are no longer being aimed purely at the domestic US market, or even the Western market, these days. Something that's a flop or just modest success here could be a huge hit overseas and for a movie to be successful overseas, particularly in Asia/China, the story has to be simple enough that it works no matter the language or culture. It's also part of the reason why remakes & reboots are so popular, we've seen these movies before here in the US, and Europe, but in other parts of the world they've never seen the originals before, so, for them, it's something new and never seen before.

I do understand that moviemakers are for profit, that they will generally do what is least expensive, requires the least effort and is the safest for maximizing sales in the all of the international markets they are in. They will do this as long as it is profitable. As complex as the industry is it still comes down to the fact that it is business. If consumers, wherever they may be, continue to support the industry's unimaginative repackaged formulaic movies en masse it will continue to make them and the bar will remain low.

Perhaps with the momentum shifting towards niche markets the film industry will make movies that appeal to smaller markets more than attempting mass appeal with every release.
 

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Cephus

Sr Member
Making a lot of money and high viewership are hardly indicators of a good film. SW, Rambo and Chick Flicks? Those are the best examples of the problem. The original trilogy was great and as much as everyone wanted to love the sequel trilogy (especially myself, a life long SW fan) it was mostly a hot mess partially because of exactly what you're talking about. Rambo and Chick Flicks completely speak for themselves. Test audiences and focus groups have helped supply plenty of garbage. When good alternatives to repackaged formulaic films are not present for the most part the bar gets lowered and people settle for junk. No one dies through having a significant amount of alternatives to formulaic movies either. In fact it helps foster imagination and creativity which are essential. People do like routines temporarily but change and growth are necessary as routine gets stale, boring & uninteresting as it has in the entertainment industry. I respect your opinion but do not agree.

The problem with the SW sequels was that they didn't understand what had made the originals so successful in the first place. They figured it was just printing money and it didn't matter what they put on the screen. Same went for the 2016 Ghostbusters. Same thing went for the J.J. Start Trek movies. They are all a mess because the studios fundamentally failed to understand what brought the audience in. Modern Hollywood isn't looking to make good movies, they're looking to make a quick buck. That very rarely ever succeeds.
 

joberg

Master Member
I do understand that moviemakers are for profit, that they will generally do what is least expensive, requires the least effort and is the safest for maximizing sales in the all of the international markets they are in. They will do this as long as it is profitable. As complex as the industry is it still comes down to the fact that it is business. If consumers, wherever they may be, continue to support the industry's unimaginative repackaged formulaic movies en masse it will continue to make them and the bar will remain low.

Perhaps with the momentum shifting towards niche markets the film industry will make movies that appeal to smaller markets more than attempting mass appeal with every release.
Well, people are still eating at McDonald's;) So, on one side of the coin you'll have quality, intelligent movies made for a niche audience's market and not necessarily making a big return for their makers and on the other side formulaic, o.k. movies made for the average audience, ready to swallow their favorite franchises and pay for it gleefully. Now, that could sound elitist at first glance but there's always been different markets for different tastes. There are, out there, intelligent, witty, complicated and very good movies (I know, it's a matter of taste in the end)...and there always will be very good movies...as well as not so good ones. Now it comes to a discussion about Art/taste in general:)
 

ScourgiousJinx

Active Member
Well, people are still eating at McDonald's;) So, on one side of the coin you'll have quality, intelligent movies made for a niche audience's market and not necessarily making a big return for their makers and on the other side formulaic, o.k. movies made for the average audience, ready to swallow their favorite franchises and pay for it gleefully. Now, that could sound elitist at first glance but there's always been different markets for different tastes. There are, out there, intelligent, witty, complicated and very good movies (I know, it's a matter of taste in the end)...and there always will be very good movies...as well as not so good ones. Now it comes to a discussion about Art/taste in general:)
Just because people do something, anything, on a large scale does not mean that it is good or that it should occur. Mcdonald's is a great example of that. As it stands now there aren't a lot of alternatives to "Mcdonald's" films and especially not in many of the franchises that we enjoy which often started out with excellent or at least original films. The vast majority of movies that are put out, blockbuster and smaller scale, are repackaged copies of each other. People have become complacent because unoriginal films that cater to the lowest common denominator are all that's available for the most part.

It's not a question of art and taste when very little innovation or change is occurring in films industry wide indefinitely. Even if you don't agree that these movies are bad and enjoy the copying/constant repetition, at some point it might be a good idea to have something different available. If you think that there is already enough originality/creativity/variety (I strongly disagree), I would say there's nothing wrong with having more and especially in the franchises that we love.

The industry is not going to change unless it's profitable to make better films.
 
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Cephus

Sr Member
The industry is not going to change unless it's profitable to make better films.
The problem is, it will never be profitable until people stop going to see dumb movies. Even H.L. Mencken knew it when he said, paraphrased, "No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

If you want to know why Hollywood is the way it is, it's because most people are dumb.
 

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joberg

Master Member
The problem is, it will never be profitable until people stop going to see dumb movies. Even H.L. Mencken knew it when he said, paraphrased, "No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

If you want to know why Hollywood is the way it is, it's because most people are dumb.
Again, it's an elitist view to say that because I refuse to watch "McMovies" I know better and am more intelligent/educated/smarter than the "masses". We can agree that nobody puts a gun against your temple and makes you watch what you have considered celluloid crap.
As a consumer and an individual, you have the right not to see those movies. If you look at movie history, you know that Hollywood (and other countries also) produced great iconic movies as well as...well, not so great ones either over the years.
The trend of re-booting or filming another version of the classics are, in essence, a lazy way to make money for a "new audience" (whatever that means). Hollywood was never deemed the "Great educator" of the masses ( and it's unfair to put that responsibility/onus on the movie industry in the first place); libraries are!
 

Riceball

Master Member
Again, it's an elitist view to say that because I refuse to watch "McMovies" I know better and am more intelligent/educated/smarter than the "masses". We can agree that nobody puts a gun against your temple and makes you watch what you have considered celluloid crap.
As a consumer and an individual, you have the right not to see those movies. If you look at movie history, you know that Hollywood (and other countries also) produced great iconic movies as well as...well, not so great ones either over the years.
The trend of re-booting or filming another version of the classics are, in essence, a lazy way to make money for a "new audience" (whatever that means). Hollywood was never deemed the "Great educator" of the masses ( and it's unfair to put that responsibility/onus on the movie industry in the first place); libraries are!
Not to mention that some movies considered classics today were either not well received in their day and didn't achieve classic status until much later, and/or they were actually remakes of an earlier and forgotten version.
 

HMSwolfe

Sr Member
I just think the two ends of the spectrum are getting pulled too far apart. A movie isn’t “general audience” fare anymore, it’s lowest common denominator. A smart or niche interest piece of media isn’t accessible because it’s too niche. Both Star Wars (1977) and something like, I don’t know, Mulan (2020) are meant to be blockbusters, but one has a soul and the other doesn’t. I’m not saying there isn’t good middle of the road stuff out there, where the right balance between profitability and creativity have been struck, where it can be clever and fresh yet still be accessible, but it just seems like there aren’t as many movies like that. It could be an effect of seeing a whole decade at a time—I wouldn’t know even ten percent of the films that came out during the 1980s, but I can sure list the ones I thought were great. Discounting or forgetting the flops and missteps might make it seem like nothing but great stuff came out then. I don’t know, though. I still feel like we’re on a dangerous precipice when it comes to entertainment, and thankfully that truly is not really a problem in the grand scheme of things. I dislike it, but there are far worse issues that need to be sorted out first. In a perfect world, I’d love it if things became better, but I think the most I can hope for are more surprises down the line, of films that manage to impact me in meaningful ways.
 

ScourgiousJinx

Active Member
Again, it's an elitist view to say that because I refuse to watch "McMovies" I know better and am more intelligent/educated/smarter than the "masses". We can agree that nobody puts a gun against your temple and makes you watch what you have considered celluloid crap.
As a consumer and an individual, you have the right not to see those movies. If you look at movie history, you know that Hollywood (and other countries also) produced great iconic movies as well as...well, not so great ones either over the years.
The trend of re-booting or filming another version of the classics are, in essence, a lazy way to make money for a "new audience" (whatever that means). Hollywood was never deemed the "Great educator" of the masses ( and it's unfair to put that responsibility/onus on the movie industry in the first place); libraries are!
There's nothing wrong with having high expectations of the products/media we spend our hard earned money on. It's actually directly opposite elitist to want variety. Wanting everything to be the same for everyone as if what you like or what you want is best for everyone (especially in entertainment) is extremely elitist.

As consumers and individuals we all have the right to have original, good, well made products as well as the copied/reboot/unoriginal/junk. The latter is far beyond in excess and makes up the vast majority of what is currently being produced in the film industry. Actually if you look at the history of film you'll see that currently there is more copying and less originality than ever on a percentage basis (not because more films are being made). Doing things exactly the same way (in life or in business) eternally simply because that's the way it's happened in the past will lead to failure eventually. Evolving is necessary to maintain relevancy and to continue to succeed.

Nothing was said about educating or putting that responsibility on the film industry. Good entertainment doesn't have to be overly intelligent or to educate. Many wonderful movies are simple and pure fun, but they were often original or many of the trends within them hadn't become stale. It's far beyond time for originality, to find new things that work with less desperate attempts to hold on to the past.
 
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Cephus

Sr Member
There's nothing wrong with having high expectations of the products/media we spend our hard earned money on. It's actually directly opposite elitist to want variety. Wanting everything to be the same for everyone as if what you like or what you want is best for everyone (especially in entertainment) is extremely elitist.

As consumers and individuals we all have the right to have original, good, well made products as well as the copied/reboot/unoriginal/junk. The latter is far beyond in excess and makes up the vast majority of what is currently being produced in the film industry. Actually if you look at the history of film you'll see that currently there is more copying and less originality than ever on a percentage basis (not because more films are being made). Doing things exactly the same way (in life or in business) eternally simply because that's the way it's happened in the past will lead to failure eventually. Evolving is necessary to maintain relevancy and to continue to succeed.

Nothing was said anything about educating or putting that responsibility on the film industry. Good entertainment doesn't have to be overly intelligent or to educate. Many wonderful movies are simple and pure fun, but they were often original or many of the trends within them hadn't become stale. It's far beyond time for originality, to find new things that work with less desperate attempts to hold on to the past.

It's not having high expectations, it's having any expectations at all. We all go into any entertainment medium having standards, or at least I hope we do. I see a lot of people who act like they're glad just to have something to watch, which I think is very sad. We are the consumers and the media companies need to cater to us, not the other way around. They want our money after all.

Yet there isn't a lot out there anymore that I'm willing to part with my cash to see. Most things are so overdone, I'm never sure if I'm just rewatching a movie that I've already seen. Disney is the king of this at the moment. They had a popular movie a couple of years ago? Make it again in live action! There's no such thing as originality. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who fall for it hook, line and sinker. Good entertainment doesn't have to be high-brow but it does have to be worthwhile and most filmmakers these days, they're just making movies by rote and pretending they ought to get paid for it.

It's not only time for originality, it's time for the general public to exercise just a little intelligence. I know that's a lot to ask for anymore, but at least try!
 

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HMSwolfe

Sr Member
But don't forget, when SW first came out, a lot of people considered it derivative and devoid of soul.
The same cannot be said for Mulan and its pandering message to the authoritarian government of China, which stands in total defiance of the original film, though, which was my point. People hated John Carpenter’s The Thing, Citizen Kane, It’s a Wonderful Life, etc. etc. when they first premiered. I’m not judging these films on their initial reception, I’m judging them by their quality and overall longevity and accessibility. I’ve seen a lot of people make the claim that, “nuh uh, Star Wars wasn’t meant for general audiences!” But if it wasn’t, and if it hadn’t connected with such a large group, it wouldn’t be the cultural phenomenon it is today. In fact, I don’t think it would be inappropriate to say that the OT is probably the most successful, impactful, and long-lasting blockbuster franchise of all time. Plenty of films have affected pop culture, but I don’t think quite to the same extent. The only things I think compare might be the James Bond films, which vary wildly in style and quality, and the MCU, which has pretty much reached a flat-out death by exhaustion at this point IMO.
 

joberg

Master Member
Well, a discussion about Quality is about to happen ;) And what is Quality? Some people have said that " You will recognize Quality when you see it/touch it" (while no price-tag is showing). That might be a very simple way of describing it. Hollywood and the movie theatres were/are a business/consumer model like no others: you pay first and you look at the product/merchandize lasto_O So the model was a very interesting concept for a lot of Studio owners at the time . I know that, over the years, patrons have asked to be refunded for X,Y,Z reasons...but the model endures.
" Your hard earn money" wanting variety is commendable, but we know that it is not often that we will see a quality movie. We have to see the "Bad" to recognize the "Good". As for expectations; I don't expect anything more, eating at McDonald, than to taste McDonald food...It would be stupid, from my part, to expect food that would have a 3 Stars in the Michelin Guide:rolleyes: So when I'm watching "Fast & Furious" I'm in a state of mind that swallows the movie whole without questions. Sure! "Mindless" entertainment. And maybe, that day, I needed it:p!!

The escape from reality is something that plays a big part into that kind of movies. Sometimes, I will re-play the classics and enjoy them like an expensive wine. Elitism is akin of Fascism. You are part of a select few, dictating what you can and cannot watch. And if that Elite tells you that, according to them, these are the only products/movies they consume and that you should, also, consume them...indeed, it would make for an unlivable society!

To conclude: you have to find your Truth into the movie/Art that you will see. Truth in Beauty, and Beauty in Truth, that is Art in a nutshell and, in the end, a very individualistic/personal decision.
 

HMSwolfe

Sr Member
No one is making the point that “only good movies should be made” or “only my version of quality should be produced”. We’re saying lately that it seems like almost NO good films are being made.

And bringing this back around to things I hate seeing in movies,

Anything related to, involving, or encompassing Fast and the Furious. I hope that franchise dies an ignominious and embarrassing death for substantially lowering the standard for what a blockbuster should deliver.
 

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ScourgiousJinx

Active Member
No one is making the point that “only good movies should be made” or “only my version of quality should be produced”. We’re saying lately that it seems like almost NO good films are being made.

And bringing this back around to things I hate seeing in movies,

Anything related to, involving, or encompassing Fast and the Furious. I hope that franchise dies an ignominious and embarrassing death for substantially lowering the standard for what a blockbuster should deliver.

100% agree.

Far beyond time to move on ...
But F&F is about family :lol:. It has everything- brutish guys, fast cars, music, explosions, a story and even dialogue (no expense spared).
 

Johnnyfl

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Coming back to things I hate in movies but not unrelated to the previous discussion, time travel. Not as a story device which I am more than happy with but as a means of rebooting an old franchise to try to breathe new profits (ahem!) life into an old franchise. Specific examples include Star Trek 2009 etc and Terminator Genesys and Dark Fate. Time travel was the fundamental story device used in the Terminator movies and I remember watching The Terminator in a movie theatre when it first came out so for over 30 years I understood that John Connor was humanities last best hope but Genesys and Dark Fate, which I cannot even bring myself to watch destroyed this and judging from the reviews also destroyed the franchise. Used wisely it is great but try not to destroy the ethos upon which a franchise's popularity is based imho!
 
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dascoyne

Master Member
This probably doesn't belong here but ...

I love Lethal Weapon but one moment makes me cringe hard every time I see it.

"I even got a special bullet for the occasion with a hollow point, look! Make sure it blows the back of my goddamned head out and do the job right!"

20210109_131604.jpg


20210109_131618.jpg


Is someone going to tell him?
 

Ron

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This probably doesn't belong here but ...

I love Lethal Weapon but one moment makes me cringe hard every time I see it.

"I even got a special bullet for the occasion with a hollow point, look! Make sure it blows the back of my goddamned head out and do the job right!"

View attachment 1410292

View attachment 1410293

Is someone going to tell him?
I noticed it too after watching it for the first time in a long time the other day. The scene in his RV where he tries to work up the nerve to kill himself (great scene btw), there's a closeup of the "hollow point"...

Screenshot_YouTube.jpg
 
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