tonykch
Well-Known Member
I remember that game! Wow was that ever a pile of crap.
"The WarZ" - How not to make & sell a video game
- Thread starter Jedi2016
- Start date
I remember that game! Wow was that ever a pile of crap.
msleeper
Sr Member
Some of what you're saying is true, some of it seems to be perpetuated rumor and half-truths. I've been following this whole thing pretty closely, I'm a game developer and the industry is really important to me. I've never been really into DayZ, it's stand alone release, or this game but the whole situation is a major cluster ****.
I do think Hammerpoint pulled a fast one on everyone, and I think they're really gonna pay the price in the end. But a lot of these complaints - are we still crying about microtrans? really? - has nothing to do with their other, actual bad moves.
Just food for thought. Don't believe everything you read, do your own fact checking, yadda yadda.
...YES!
Solo4114
Master Member
Yes, we are, because they suck.
Angelus Lupus
Sr Member
If I buy a game, I want to be able to play it and complete it and collect all the stuff. I don't want to find out that I need to spend 3 times as much money just to enjoy it.
Add-ons and DLC are different, as long as they're not required to complete the thing. e.g. the DLC extra missions for Borderlands - totally worth extra.
Add-ons and DLC are different, as long as they're not required to complete the thing. e.g. the DLC extra missions for Borderlands - totally worth extra.
Jedi2016
Sr Member
Microtransactions themselves are one thing, but there's two things Hammerpoint has done to handle them in a very bad way:
You can buy items and then immediately lose them upon spawning, killed by something you didn't even know was there because the game bugged out. You lose them forever when you die, so you have to buy them again.
They artificially increased the respawn timer in order to force people toward paying to have their character respawn instantly. The funny part about this is that they claim to have "40% of our 80,000 testers" claim that "four hours was a good time, this is what they wanted". That's absolute bull***t and I refuse to believe it.
Normal microtransactions in successful games are fine. Buying hats in TF2? Knock yourself out. Paying money to keep playing the game? **** that.
This morning they're flatly refusing all requests for refunds, sending people to Steam, Paypal, or their bank depending on how they bought it, and getting refunds that way.
crabra comander
Master Member
I just think microtrans blows hard...so if you develop those games...tough **** you're not getting me to pay.
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, I should be clear about what I mean re: microtrans sucking.
There are right ways and wrong ways to do it. TF2's model is ideal, I think. They have the drop system, the crafting system, and the store. You can use any of those, and most of the stuff is purely cosmetic anyway. Hats, earphones, whatever. The guns that actually do soemthing different are relatively easy to craft, and you can get random drops of them, too. Or you can buy 'em if you don't want to wait. The other thing is that the guns are superbly balanced. No weapon is clearly BETTER across the board than others. Some suit different playstyles better than others but it's not like you're truly upgrading the weaponry.
DLC is also fine. Particularly if it's big enough. That's no different from the old expansion pack concept.
There's another approach, though, that's a LOT harder to pull off, and that's in games where you have XP (or some other accumulating widget) that gets traded in to unlock guns or items, or where you can spend real world money to just buy them outright. The problem with that is that you have to strike a VERY delicate balance between the paying customers and the free customers. If the paying customers can totally wipe the floor with the free customers...you won't have many free customers for that long, and then you'll lose the paying ones when they have no one to kill.
So far, I've found Tribes: Ascend to be a good balance of relatively fast XP, and perfectly functional lower-level gear. Planetside 2, on the other hand, sucks for this. Your basic gear seems like crap, and it takes a while to unlock other stuff.
Which brings me to my last point. Unlocks SUCK. If you have to turn your game into a Skinner box to make it "fun" then your game really probably isn't as "fun" as you think. It's addictive, sure, but it isn't fun. I wish we could go back to the days of games like Battlefield 1942 where everyone had stock gear and the only thing that differentiated players was player skill (well, and connection speed, but you'll never solve that issue). I know those days are gone, though, which is why I tend to not buy a lot of games with microtransactions or unlocks. Some games do it better than others (I thought Battlefield: Bad Company 1 and 2 did well with their balance of weapons, and BF3 was...eh...ok), but by and large, the unlock hamster wheel aspect of games is used to hide otherwise ho-hum gameplay.
Jedi2016
Sr Member
Hawken is catching some flak for people being able to purchase higher-end gear right off the bat. It's hurting people like me that are just trying the game out, and I end up with a rather pathetic and disheartening KD ratio.
I'm not generally that good at online shooters anyway, but it seems especially bad lately because matchmaking is so poor.. brand new Lv1 characters get dropped into a match with high-level, totally decked-out players that roll over newbies like a tidal wave. I'd probably do a lot better if I were in a game with a bunch of other new players, and then work my way up, and eventually balance out in the "average player" leagues, where I stop advancing, but still do okay in each match.
The problem with that in Hawken is that the game is so damned pretty, runs great, and actually feels like a damn good mech game. I would be all over it if someone made a single-player game out of that engine.
I'm not generally that good at online shooters anyway, but it seems especially bad lately because matchmaking is so poor.. brand new Lv1 characters get dropped into a match with high-level, totally decked-out players that roll over newbies like a tidal wave. I'd probably do a lot better if I were in a game with a bunch of other new players, and then work my way up, and eventually balance out in the "average player" leagues, where I stop advancing, but still do okay in each match.
The problem with that in Hawken is that the game is so damned pretty, runs great, and actually feels like a damn good mech game. I would be all over it if someone made a single-player game out of that engine.
Are you certain? I've been playing pretty regularly, and last I checked, in-game microtransactions had not yet been implemented. As far as I know, there's still no way to actually purchase in-game currency. Also, from my experience, the "improvements" the gear you unlock gives you (which I unlocked by leveling up) are so minimal, it hardly makes a difference. It's more prefence-based than anything, it doesn't really give you an edge. Would you rather have a slower firing weapon with a greater range, or a faster firing one, with hardly any range at all? More armor, or higher damage weapons? Faster cooldown rate, faster repair times, or a faster mech? I've jumped into matches with a lvl 1 mech, and had no problems completely decimating lvl 20 mechs. I do agree with you about the match making though, it needs to be able to group lvls together, so newer players don't get frustrated when the more experienced players destroy them. That could potentially cost them players, who would have had much more fun playing with people at the same skill level as them.
Jedi2016
Sr Member
EMP is a game-changer, that I don't have yet. I've been two-shot by some type of weapon before, not fun. Yeah, I've taken out some high level players too, but only if I get lucky and catch them off-guard.
Caught one guy while he was repairing, it was like catching him while he was taking a dump in the woods, it was hilarious.
Caught one guy while he was repairing, it was like catching him while he was taking a dump in the woods, it was hilarious.
Hahahah, yes, I absolutely love catching people repairing, especially when they don't notice me.
You're right about the EMP though, what a pain in the ass that is.
Jedi2016
Sr Member
He noticed me when I put a TOW rocket up his ass.. lol. He didn't even try to fight, he just ran, I'm not sure if he ever knew where I was (actually about 20m above him). He didn't get far.
msleeper
Sr Member
There are good ways to do microtrans and bad ways, just like any other gameplay or monetization mechanic. And like most things, it's way easier to screw them up than to do them right.
There's nothing I can say on the subject better than what the Extra Credits show said about a year ago. Please, if the subject of game design or balance is remotely something you care about, take the 9 minutes and watch the video. It's incredibly informative and well thought out. I promise you won't be disappointed.
Penny Arcade - Extra Credits ? Microtransactions
That said, I have to disagree that allowing a player to purchase an item and then instantly lose it is bad game design. It absolutely sucks if it happens, and because there is still hacking/cheating in the game it does not seem worth it to pay money for anything, but I think they're on the right monetization path by doing this. The reason is because buying items (as opposed to finding them in the world) does not, in any way whatsoever, give you any kind of power advantage.
This is the definition of "pay to win". Where a player who does not pay anything (me) is at a real disadvantage of paying players (you) just because I'm not giving up my money. So say we're both in the same server, you buy your awesome weapon and I find mine. We both get killed, but you keep your item... How is that not breaking the core aspect of the game's design choices? Suddenly you, as a paying player, have advantages over me and every other non-paying player.
That is bad game design. That is bad microtransaction implementation. The quote the EC video, the best kind of microtransactions are the kind that sell you convenience and nothing else.
And just so we're clear, I'm not talking about paying to unlock content or anything of that nature. Again, those are poor implementations of microtrans. And again, watch the EC video. They explain it better than I ever could!
There's nothing I can say on the subject better than what the Extra Credits show said about a year ago. Please, if the subject of game design or balance is remotely something you care about, take the 9 minutes and watch the video. It's incredibly informative and well thought out. I promise you won't be disappointed.
Penny Arcade - Extra Credits ? Microtransactions
That said, I have to disagree that allowing a player to purchase an item and then instantly lose it is bad game design. It absolutely sucks if it happens, and because there is still hacking/cheating in the game it does not seem worth it to pay money for anything, but I think they're on the right monetization path by doing this. The reason is because buying items (as opposed to finding them in the world) does not, in any way whatsoever, give you any kind of power advantage.
This is the definition of "pay to win". Where a player who does not pay anything (me) is at a real disadvantage of paying players (you) just because I'm not giving up my money. So say we're both in the same server, you buy your awesome weapon and I find mine. We both get killed, but you keep your item... How is that not breaking the core aspect of the game's design choices? Suddenly you, as a paying player, have advantages over me and every other non-paying player.
That is bad game design. That is bad microtransaction implementation. The quote the EC video, the best kind of microtransactions are the kind that sell you convenience and nothing else.
And just so we're clear, I'm not talking about paying to unlock content or anything of that nature. Again, those are poor implementations of microtrans. And again, watch the EC video. They explain it better than I ever could!
'War Z' Uses Images Taken From AMC's 'The Walking Dead' [Updated] - Forbes
Saw this and thought i'd add it.
Saw this and thought i'd add it.
Ouch. Ya know, this is straight ****ed. These guys just keep digging, and digging. DLC and all is one thing, but it's wrong to advertise for features you plan on implementing at a later date, and be intentionally vague on when said features will be implemented.
And now here they are, blatantly ripping off the works of others.
**** these guys.
And now here they are, blatantly ripping off the works of others.
**** these guys.
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