The Batman 2022 Chest Glyph (Batarang) / Paragon FX Group

radioscooter

New Member
Not sure what this one is:

View attachment 1565943
That's the one that Warner Bros. Studio Tours Store sold-out of for $500 each. Allegedly metal-plated. Along with their crappy cowl replica (but nice display case) for $425 Also - Here's the limited edition Zavvi one (also sold-out) made by DUST!
 

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JWTCosplay

New Member
PopPackProp’s Batarang replica arrived for me today, and this thing is beautiful! Can’t wait to get this thing finished and smooth looking!
 

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radioscooter

New Member
Based on the threads that are being forensically detailed by the investigators here, and as a bit more pushback to the Paragon and a few other comments - People have identified parts of the glyph most likely coming from the tactical MF knife parts. They even have the orangey-red locking thumb "switches".

I think that based on what we've read and heard from the production team, that they took molds of parts and things they liked, combined them in new ways (Not unlike the Millennium Falcon production models and others) And then used edges and bits here and there to detail up something semi-believable but cool. I don't think they cut metal blades apart and created a welded metal hero master at any point in time.

That said, this kind of cop-out response about using studio STL files and that the screws and clips were "all part of the print" - ehhhhhh, yeah, okay...BUT - you went ahead and made a beautiful metal version of this prop, why not go the extra mile and drop REAL metal clips on it or drive in REAL screws? I've got various 3D printed glyphs here and one maker even printed out the "clips" separately, so they could be detailed on their own, and not seem like part of an embedded mold. (Pics below)

Just saying, there's nothing keeping any of us from grabbing a couple of these knock off knives, and harvesting out some real black metal screws, or the clips to modify a resin printed glyph with some added dimensional realism. So there's absolutely no reason why a company making a $250 (or $500 for that matter) metal version can't do the same thing. Maybe the UD one will?
 

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benhs1898

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Most likely the knife parts were 3d scanned and incorporated into the 3d modeling process. Therefore there were likely no props that actually had the real parts on them.

Paragon’s answer isn’t a cop out just because you don’t like it.
 

radioscooter

New Member
Most likely the knife parts were 3d scanned and incorporated into the 3d modeling process. Therefore there were likely no props that actually had the real parts on them.

Paragon’s answer isn’t a cop out just because you don’t like it.
Regardless, "molded" or "scanned into the 3D process", it was assembled from "found parts". Samey same - just the modern version of it. And fair enough - it's not a "cop-out" reply because I don't like it. It's a cop-out because the implied rationale was that "if it's in the production STL file then it's perfect and nobody has any reason to complain." (I'm paraphrasing).

Then this group right here came in and pointed out a massive difference from the first prototype image on the Paragon slide show and the rest of the images on their slide show. And then this group right here came in and illustrated that there is no way that there was just one used, more like five different posed versions, so it's a cop-out acting like there's only one set of production 3D files.

And it's a cop-out because they could have just as easily made some of the smaller parts movable, or separately cast and assembled, rather than one or two large molded pieces with molded screws, clips, and separation lines etc. I'm not saying it's not a nice collectible, or that I won't get one, but come on. $250? or $500 for WB's? or $300 for Factory's?! And nobody thought - "Hey, this is a lot of money, and EVERYONE has access to the STL files in 2022, and a dozen Etsy folks are kicking out gorgeous stuff for $75 - let's make ours really nicer and worth the upgrade price?"

Not knocking Paragon, but let's be honest here. Often (at least with Batmobile collectibles) One company is well aware of what another company is doing with officially licensed collectibles because they can check the licensing request forms to see if anyone else is - oh let's say applying for an application to license and produce the Bat-Emblem/Glyph. At last look we've got:

- Rubies
- Merchoid
- Zavvi/Dust!
- Paragon
- WBSTS
- Factory
- UD

Any more I'm missing? And the best we can do is "That's how the studio files were."? Sorry, I guess I'm just saying this could have been a huge win for any one of those companies. Rather than get exasperated at fan-boy detail complaints because Hey, now there's a six way tie for which one someone is going to drop $250 - $500+ on!", why not make an "ultimate batarang/glyph" worthy of the price and a display case?

I guess I'm alone here.
 
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benhs1898

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Regardless, "molded" or "scanned into the 3D process", it was assembled from "found parts". Samey same - just the modern version of it. And fair enough - it's not a "cop-out" reply because I don't like it. It's a cop-out because the implied rationale was that "if it's in the production STL file then it's perfect and nobody has any reason to complain." (I'm paraphrasing).

Then this group right here came in and pointed out a massive difference from the first prototype image on the Paragon slide show and the rest of the images on their slide show. And then this group right here came in and illustrated that there is no way that there was just one used, more like five different posed versions, so it's a cop-out acting like there's only one set of production 3D files.

And it's a cop-out because they could have just as easily made some of the smaller parts movable, or separately cast and assembled, rather than one or two large molded pieces with molded screws, clips, and separation lines etc. I'm not saying it's not a nice collectible, or that I won't get one, but come on. $250? or $500 for WB's? or $300 for Factory's?! And nobody thought - "Hey, this is a lot of money, and EVERYONE has access to the STL files in 2022, and a dozen Etsy folks are kicking out gorgeous stuff for $75 - let's make ours really nicer and worth the upgrade price?"

Not knocking Paragon, but let's be honest here. Often (at least with Batmobile collectibles) One company is well aware of what another company is doing with officially licensed collectibles because they can check the licensing request forms to see if anyone else is - oh let's say applying for an application to license and produce the Bat-Emblem/Glyph. At last look we've got:

- Rubies
- Merchoid
- Zavvi/Dust!
- Paragon
- WBSTS
- Factory
- UD

Any more I'm missing? And the best we can do is "That's how the studio files were."? Sorry, I guess I'm just saying this could have been a huge win for any one of those companies. Rather than get exasperated at fan-boy detail complaints because Hey, now there's a six way tie for which one someone is going to drop $250 - $500+ on!", why not make an "ultimate batarang/glyph" worthy of the price and a display case?

I guess I'm alone here.
I think you don't understand how licensed products are made. License holders have to use what they are given. Paragon never said there was only one design, they said these were the files they were given.

Ultimately, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to buy it. Paragon isn't hurting you by offering the product they are offering.
 

stopmo

Member
View attachment 1572195 View attachment 1572196 Well, the fantastic lady that painted them (@rutvillamanga Rut Villamanga) posted tutorials on Instagram of how she painted them for the movie.

They're 6 pieces if you count both sides. So a 6 piece file?
That was so cool of her to post the tutorials. Her post about painting the scratches was really clever I never would have thought of that trick.
 

radioscooter

New Member
Just for reference - Three completely different raw 3D-printed chest-emblem glyphs (and one logo emblem) all from different STL files. Three takes on the clips. Three sets that don't have the clip areas meeting flush, but extending slightly beyond the "wall" of the center gap, or seated above the weapon itself (as a tactical knife belt clip would be).

By the way, the grey one (under the black logo piece on top) is six pieces. I have it pieced together, but the last image shows all the pieces, as well as the curvature of the "wings"
 

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VitalNonsense

Active Member
View attachment 1572195 View attachment 1572196 Well, the fantastic lady that painted them (@rutvillamanga Rut Villamanga) posted tutorials on Instagram of how she painted them for the movie.

They're 6 pieces if you count both sides. So a 6 piece file?
Very nice work and cool to see the process.

Interesting to see her working on the two very different batarang models. The flat one that seems to have been provided to replica manufacturers, and the more detailed chest model that made it on-screen.
You can see how the "point" of the "bat wings" is very different on the chest model versus the flat model. The spike stands out on the curved screen version, while it's flush with the wing on the flat version. There are other more subtle differences as well. In general it seems like the overall shapes have been simplified/streamlined for the flat version compared to the more complex chest version.

My guess is that the simplified flat version is a stunt version that didn't end up seeing much use in the final cut. Stunt props are often simplified versions of more complex hero props, easier to produce and fewer pieces, sometimes also with modifications to make them sturdier and safer to handle (fewer pointy bits).
GYNd4Vb.jpg


Based on the threads that are being forensically detailed by the investigators here - People have identified parts of the glyph most likely coming from the tactical MF knife parts. They even have the orangey-red locking thumb "switches".
The art book also does display some exploration of the glyph more closely resembling a traditional folding knife. Like the below sketches in the mid left where the "wing" seems to be the handle that the blade rotates out from, and the multiple arrows suggesting the rotating blade hinge (which in the movie is still seen out on the wing but doesn't seem to rotate anything anymore).
The visual inspiration is clear even if the function was not retained, it implies that in-universe it started out as a couple tactical knives like the ones you posted and got modified. Whatever blades were on the ends of the hilts got augmented with the wider "bat wings" among other additional parts. Pretty cool implied history in the prop.

htwky8w.jpg
 
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dirtyjawa

Active Member
received_715610459752054.jpeg

Funny enough, that one on the right is the one she painted and on the left we see where it ended up lol Same wreathing marks.

So we can clearly say that the 6 piece (if the clips are separate) ones were for the chest and the flat ones were the "knife" mode version.

But I hate to play devils advocate but what is that in this pic I have to point out because no one else will?
received_3980554642170557.jpeg

Is that end... Flat?
 

radioscooter

New Member
But I hate to play devils advocate but what is that in this pic I have to point out because no one else will?
View attachment 1576455
Is that end... Flat?

Yes, it's flat, but why is that a surprise? The perforated belt clip piece has not been added to this yet. And, as mentioned above - this is not the multi-piece chest version, but the flat hand-prop version. Or am I issing your point?
 

dirtyjawa

Active Member
Yes, it's flat, but why is that a surprise? The perforated belt clip piece has not been added to this yet. And, as mentioned above - this is not the multi-piece chest version, but the flat hand-prop version. Or am I issing your point?
Do you not see the clip on there?

The tactical knife version is double sided (watch the video of the prop master. He picks it up showing one side and holds it to his chest showing the other.). The clips don't really DO anything. You can see from the full photo I posted above from @rutvillamanga that the "clip" is missing from the other half on the right and you can see the notches for it. So the clip is there on the left half and it's flat. The tactical knife version (from the video) was connected flush at the handles.

This leads me to believe that the clip on the tactical knife was a custom flush clip that still LOOKED correct... Paragon most likely got the file for one half of the Glyph that DIDN'T have a flush clip and they had to do what they had to do for the sake of the magnetic gimmick. Really all they have to do is change the pattern on the clip by removing 2 holes.

That's my point ☺️
 

dirtyjawa

Active Member
Double sided, connected at the hilts FLUSH, and a solid piece.

I think I'm going to pre-order and repaint using Rut's advice. Paint it in Alumaluster, seal it, then paint it in black acrylic using alcohol to remove and weather the black without messing up the silver base.
 

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radioscooter

New Member
Do you not see the clip on there?

The tactical knife version is double sided (watch the video of the prop master. He picks it up showing one side and holds it to his chest showing the other.). The clips don't really DO anything. You can see from the full photo I posted above from @rutvillamanga that the "clip" is missing from the other half on the right and you can see the notches for it. So the clip is there on the left half and it's flat. The tactical knife version (from the video) was connected flush at the handles.

This leads me to believe that the clip on the tactical knife was a custom flush clip that still LOOKED correct... Paragon most likely got the file for one half of the Glyph that DIDN'T have a flush clip and they had to do what they had to do for the sake of the magnetic gimmick. Really all they have to do is change the pattern on the clip by removing 2 holes.

That's my point ☺️
Okay, yeah - I see the left side clip, but no perforations. And yes I get the double-sided aspect, which is why we're not seeing the clip on the right side. I didn't get your point, but you're right about what Paragon did.

Let me ask you though, why order the Paragon one if you're just going to repaint and modify? Why not a 3D printed one?
 

dirtyjawa

Active Member
Okay, yeah - I see the left side clip, but no perforations. And yes I get the double-sided aspect, which is why we're not seeing the clip on the right side. I didn't get your point, but you're right about what Paragon did.

Let me ask you though, why order the Paragon one if you're just going to repaint and modify? Why not a 3D printed one?
Actually, I'm at a crossroads. I can't decide which to get between the Paragon and Factory. They both have their ups and downs. The biggest factor is if the Paragon is flat on the back or not (it looks flat on those deck pics, does it not?). The Factory looks double sided, but they are AWFUL when it comes to edges and points (Aquaman trident is the prime example) and I don't know how the metal would take to sharpening.

As to why I would customize a licensed prop instead of a 3D print? Lineage. I think that's what most people do here is get something with lineage and make it as accurate as possible. WB provided the file and everything is created digitally in films, now. So it's going to be accurate in shape. I haven't found a single 3D fan made that wasn't only one-sided or full of more inaccuracies I care to deal with. The body and blade shapes are perfect on this one if it's double sided. I just want one, ya know? The money I'd spend getting a collection of inaccurate fan sculpts I rather use on one accurate enough I can work with.
 
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benhs1898

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Actually, I'm at a crossroads. I can't decide which to get between the Paragon and Factory. They both have their ups and downs. The biggest factor is if the Paragon is flat on the back or not (it looks flat on those deck pics, does it not?). The Factory looks double sided, but they are AWFUL when it comes to edges and points (Aquaman trident is the prime example) and I don't know how the metal would take to sharpening.

As to why I would customize a licensed prop instead of a 3D print? Lineage. I think that's what most people do here is get something with lineage and make it as accurate as possible. WB provided the file and everything is created digitally in films, now. So it's going to be accurate in shape. I haven't found a single 3D fan made that wasn't only one-sided or full of more inaccuracies I care to deal with. The body and blade shapes are perfect on this one if it's double sided. I just want one, ya know? The money I'd spend getting a collection of inaccurate fan sculpts I rather use on one accurate enough I can work with.
Rylo confirmed to me in another thread that it’s detailed on both sides.
 

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