the absolute BEST Star Trek tunics ?

Discussion in 'Replica Costumes' started by nwjedidave, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    first off:

    YES i am aware of the Starfleet 1701st over on the ASAP forums....
    YES i have contacted adam (past guru of the trek tunics)

    i'm looking for some more suggestions on getting some made? if the text below seems familiar its because i've sent some of this out to other folks looking for suggestions... it gets my point across, and also under scores the VERY personal meaning these will have for me....


    for now i'm looking at a gold/green command and a blue
    tunic...

    i'm looking to put together a star trek display in our
    spare bedroom...

    i came across a picture of my dad and i at the wax
    museum somewhere down in california, and i have on my
    blue "spock" tunic standing right next to my dad... he
    got me hooked on trek...

    our family made it a part of having dinner... my dad
    had an uncanny ability to remember almost every single
    detail in each episode, so when one would come on that
    i wasn't sure which episode it was, all i would need
    to do was ask "Which one is this?" and he could start
    to ramble off details about the episode until i could
    tell him "OH YEA. I remember that one."

    my dad passed away several years ago, and after coming
    across this photo, i've been lucky enough to come in
    contact with an ILM model maker who is putting the
    finishing touches on an enterprise A refit for me...

    some progress pics here --
    [​IMG]

    the photo, along with the built kit and the tunics
    will make a very nice display and i'm hoping that the
    tunics will fit me as good as they look..


    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  2. Darth Detroit

    Darth Detroit Sr Member

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    I always liked that version of the Enterprise.
     
  3. misterfusion

    misterfusion Sr Member

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    I'd love to see the pic of you and your dad at the Wax Museum.

    I used to be the Curator of the Hollywood Wax Museum, so I'm always interested in seeing people's Wax Pics.

    Also, as far as the tunic is concerned, I'll be watching this thread as well. I have heads of Spock and Picard that I made. I have a pretty nice Next Gen tunic for Picard, but I'm in need of a good tunic for Spock.


    [​IMG]

    May the wind be at your back, and thanks for sharing the story about your dad.

    Steve
     
  4. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    that picture is out having some work done on it, but SOMEWHERE around here i have a pic. of me and my sister in our blue science tunics sitting on either side of the wax mr. spock

    i was looking for that pic earlier but couldn't find it, but i still have 3 more boxes of pictures to go through ..

    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  5. REL

    REL Sr Member

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    I've never seen the PL refit built up as well as he does it. Outstanding work.
     
  6. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    love the new "pylons" link on your page REL .

    your ship is going to blow A LOT of people away ..

    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  7. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hm, sounds like a job for SCREEN GRABS. :D

    In the First Season, the material was a heavy velour, with a slight "sparkly" or shiny quality to it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The command color is a subtle yellow-green-tan color. The outdoor shot on the right from "Shore Leave" shows it off pretty well

    [​IMG]

    The first season velour had a tendency to SHRINK however... note how far up his arms Kirk's sleeves are in this shot.

    [​IMG]

    As in later seasons, a zipper from the collar to the shoulder assisted in getting the shirt on and off without disturbing the actor's makeup. Note also the black T-shirt, usually worn under the tunic (note to fan films: I don't want to see naked flab when those tunics ride up in fight scenes. )

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And of course the women's skirts were... disturbingly short. :D

    [​IMG]

    In the second season, Shatner favored this green wraparound thing. As you can see, it is markedly green, as opposed to the usual "command" color which is markedly not-green.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    By the third season (actually partway thru the second) the costumes switched from velour to a sort of acrylic blend. It's supposedly not a knit. I don't know for sure what to call it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    - k
     
  8. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    phase pistol ......

    those are some GREAT screen grabs, and also a great quick lesson in Trek Tunics .

    thx.

    NWJEDI
    dave
    p.s. still looking for suggestions

    i have a good idea on fabric (not sure which season) and braids, but have not a clue on a professional competant seamstress
     
  9. BB43MAN

    BB43MAN Well-Known Member

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    I understand the original command tunics were actually green. They turned yellow after they were drycleaned. The rank braid was custom made. The original company that made the fabric is no longer around. I also heard the creator of a Star Trek fan site owns the remaining original fabric used in the TOS given to him by the original costume designer, with whom he was friends with.

    I didn't know, until recently, that the shirts had zippers on the sides. I only thought they were pull-overs.

    This fan site is so accurate on their costumes that the production of ENTERPRISE borrowed the command wrap-around tunic for the episodes "Through a Mirror, Darkly, parts one and two). Probably info that everyone knows by now.
     
  10. misterfusion

    misterfusion Sr Member

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    Over at Rodd.com, they've got tunic patterns that are supposedly taken directly from Bill Theiss' original designs for about $10.

    Is it just me or is there a "Curse of the Trek Tunic"? I know there were a couple of members who did really nice, authentic tunics that fit great, were spot-on with the colors, had accfurate briads, etc. They have long since been banned for crappy business practices.

    Steve
     
  11. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    sounds like there would be enough interest to put the talents of this group to the test to make another run... but i guess thats the same idea behind the Starfleet 1701st

    *shrug*

    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  12. WhiteCommando

    WhiteCommando Well-Known Member

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    So... I must know... where... ... ... do I get... ... oneoftheseTunics? Must... getbacktotheship. Scotty? Beam me up... Scotty, I... am ready.

    Man, you gotta love those unusually long... ... pauses... when... Shatner Speaks.

    Felicatations.

    [​IMG]

    John
     
  13. John Cooley

    John Cooley Well-Known Member

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    I AM SO INTRESTED IN THIS IDEA... :D I agree that the 1701st sounds all over this but there are rules and dues and all sorts of other issues involved in their project. I would think the with all the resources and knowledge of the RPF at our disposal we could certanly come up with something.

    I grew up with a Donmoor Star Trek shirt (something I think any Star Trek kid of the early '70s remembers fondly) and have always wanted an awsome replica shirt for my collection. But I also want to throw out another idea at the same time. If we were to find an artist to turn out an accurate replica uniform shirt sutable for display and the occasional con or get togeather could they not also replicate the 1975 Donmoor shirt for fun? It would be something fun to wear that would look good without worring about damaging the actual replica. Just a thought.

    John
     
  14. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    i'd be in for both..


    NWJEDI
    dave


     
  15. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well if some talented seamster (or -stress) wants to step up to the plate on these, SURE I would be interested in a tunic or two. :D

    Accuracy is CRITICAL however. I don't want to see pajama tops, people.

    It's true, Rodd.com has sewing patterns.. plus you can get insignia patches and sleeve braid.

    http://store.roddenberry.com/store.cfm?categoryID=11415

    http://store.roddenberry.com/store.cfm?categoryID=11423

    Their patches are not super accurate tho.

    Rodd.com patch
    [​IMG]

    Actual screenused patch (screenused material, too)
    [​IMG]

    - k
     
  16. WinstonWolf359

    WinstonWolf359 Sr Member

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    I have one of the Rodd.com-style insignia patches that I got direct from Katarra. It's not bad, but they need to be trimmed a little closer to the embroidery for my taste.

    The Rodd/Katarra braid also looks like it's made well, it's just different from most other people's. It reminds me of the early first season braid that was a lot thicker and fatter. I'd like to see it actually sewn on a shirt, 'cause I'm sure it would look better.

    Overall, the TOS tunic is a pretty easy pattern to work with, it's just getting a good material to make the shirt out of that's tough.
     
  17. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would have to respectfully ask you the source of that information. I hadn't heard the "actually green but changed color" story before.

    I would imagine if that were true, the shirts would be all different shades. In addition, in "Corbomite Maneuver" (the first episode filmed with this style of shirts) the material looks the same color as in later episodes.

    [​IMG]

    Also I had heard that the rank braid was actually from studio stock and had been used in an earlier film, "Cleopatra" or "Ben Hur" or something, I forget.

    What to call this command color is a really controversial subject however. I've seen an example of first-season velour in person, and it DOES photograph differently than it looks. I called it "the yellowest green imaginable" when I saw it in person. But I balk at actually calling it "green" because it's so far over at the end of that range.

    And it seems to photograph "warmer", leading to a tan or pumpkin hue.

    - K
     
  18. John Cooley

    John Cooley Well-Known Member

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    Cool. :p I have a theory that most of the people out there who REALLLLY want a perfect uniform replica have a: at some point worn or at least held a really crappy version of the tunic (can anybody say Rubies), b:are (as a guess) around 32 to 36, c: remember or owned a Donmoor Star Trek shirt. Thoughts?
     
  19. John Cooley

    John Cooley Well-Known Member

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    Actually...the film was The 10 Commandments. :)
     
  20. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    No one is making these right now.

    Maybe the 1701 will come through.

    Supposedly they are trying to get Roddenberry.com to carry the fabric and have already enlisted a tailor who is a fan.
     
  21. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    quoted from ash above:

    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  22. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Umm yeah?. :lol

    Put it this way since Adam has left nobody is making these at all OR the RIGHT way.

    The biggest hurdle in making these Tunics after you decide which Season you want to replicate is finding the Material.

    The Velour is long long gone.

    The Third season Material is still out there and can be dyed by the same place that did them for the Series.

    The Collar Material also can be found.

    Get yourself a Tailor and you are all set. ;)
     
  23. GeneralMayhem

    GeneralMayhem Sr Member

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    I made these back in high school. If they don't come through, drop us a line. I'd have to decide a fair price, though, but I imagine we could do it.


    ~ GM
     
  24. BB43MAN

    BB43MAN Well-Known Member

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    The original green colored tunics that turned yellow after drycleaning came from an interview with William Ware Theiss. He also said that the braid was custom made. Give me a little bit and I'll look up the site for you.

    The Star Trek TOS fan site guy I mentioned worked with Theiss and was friends with him and got all of the remaining tunic material left on the planet. He also works with the original patterns (and when I mean original, I MEAN ORIGINAL.) to make his shirts for his productions. All the tunics are hand made by him. Amazing. His craftmanship really shows in his internet movies. His reproductions are top-notch.
     
  25. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Great caps as always, Karl. :thumbsup

    I'd always thought the zippers went all the way down from the collar to the waist. Even ending at the shoulder, it's an ingenious way to conceal the zipper in the seams of the garment.
     
  26. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well he should know; Theiss was the costume designer for TOS.

    But if he's trying to say that the as-seen-on-screen command tunics were "yellow"... well I think he's oversimplifying the case to say the least. I wouldn't call that color "yellow". But if that's now he saw it, so be it.

    Perhaps the fabric was much more obviously green in pre-production.

    As to the braid, well we have two conflicting stories; it was pre-existing braid for "The Ten Commandments", and that it was custom made for the show. Well there are possible explainations for this too; different braid was used in the pilot episodes and in pre-production prototype costumes that were ultimately rejected. Or maybe they only had a small supply of "Ten Commandments" braid and had a new batch made up. So it's possible that both stories are in fact true.

    Anyway, for further amusement, here are the costumes as seen in the original pilot of Star Trek ("The Cage"):

    [​IMG]

    There were actually three colors; command Gold, a Peach color, and Blue as worn by Mister Spock.

    The rank braid system is very rudimentary... even Captain Pike wears only one stripe. So do his senior officers. Crewmen have no stripes.

    Different braid was worn on different uniforms; Pike and most of the officers have a smooth flat braid, but the communications officer (left, with printout) has a kind of wavy layered strip of braid.

    [​IMG]

    The delta-shield patch is smaller and simpler too, with a rough gold stitched outline.

    The sleazy Starfleet officer (Admiral?) in the Orion Slave Girl fantasy ("Nice place you got here, mister Pike.") seems to be wearing a "green" version of the standard tunic (or green-ER anyway), with some kind of brownish pullover with epaulettes on top.

    [​IMG]

    And of course there were those Jackets for the landing party.

    [​IMG]

    An elaborate harness was worn under the jacket for carrying the laser pistol and communciator, but later Yeoman Colt and Number One wear a sort of abbreviated belt instead of the full harness.

    [​IMG]

    The second pilot ("Where No Man Has Gone Before") retains the same Gold, Peach and Blue color scheme, but shuffled around a bit... now Spock wears Command Gold for example. Service personnel such as Scotty and Navigator Gary Mitchell wear the Peach.

    The braid is still very simple, with only Captain Kirk sporting two stripes. All other officers wear one.

    [​IMG]

    This shot is from the opening scene of the show. Here Shatner and Nimoy appear to be wearing the PEACH version of the uniform, but it's hard to be certain (could just be the lighting I guess). In any case it looks a little different than in later scenes.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a good comparison shot of the three colors. Here the color I call "command gold" does have a sort of "avocado" quality I suppose.

    [​IMG]

    Landing party equipment is pretty minimal, and 20th century military belts are worn to support the phaser pistols.

    The chest insignia is a litte closer to the final version, but still small and kind of rounder than the final, tall patch.

    [​IMG]

    After the second pilot but before production began, some publicity photos were shot featuring the actors with "futuristic" props (including bunsen burners, flashlights and the 3-foot miniature of the Enteprise.) and wearing transitional prototype costumes. These have wide, rounded black collars and flat braid similar to that in the pilots. The colors and materials are closer to those used in the series however.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    People used to argue (and still do I guess) over precisely what color the hull of the Enterprise really was. Due to poor TV reception, bad film prints and other factors the ship usually looked decidedly blue or green. Now we know the color is actually a shade of gray.

    The same is still true of the uniform colors I suppose... it will take some kind of definitive color-matching against the actual materials, to settle the issue.

    In the meantime go to the Seattle Science Fiction Museum, where authentinc Command and Science uniform tunics are on display. :D

    - k
     
  27. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would be careful in mentioning his name as he owes a few things to people.

    If I recall correctly he also tells some tall tales on his suppossed conversations with Theiss, I forgot which ones were out and out proved as lies.

    He does do nice work under threat of having the law called on him though :unsure
     
    johnhenry13 likes this.
  28. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    They did. They are not all the way unzipped in that Screen-cap.
     
  29. BB43MAN

    BB43MAN Well-Known Member

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    All the info about the producer of the fan site is on his website. I garnered the info from his discussion boards and seeing him on a television interview. That's all. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him, yet, but if I did I would ask him about his excellent costuming and producing.

    The site with the Theiss interview is: www.robsacc.nl/ottens/index.html

    I hope posting this address doesn't violate any rules of the forum AND I hope it helps.

    Oh, I stand corrected about the drycleaning changing the color of the command tunics. They were green but the filming process changed the colors. Read the article under interviews and then William Theiss and you will see what I mean.

    Hope this helps.
     
  30. WinstonWolf359

    WinstonWolf359 Sr Member

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    I've read another interview with Theiss (on phasers.net) where he calls the command tunic material "avacado."

    I think the amount of light on the fabric accounts for the degree of "yellow" they appear. The Cage and the early first season episodes were lighted much darker than the rest of the series which accounted for the early uniforms looking much more gold/green or sometimes even brown-ish compared to the BRIGHT yellow/gold appearance of the later episodes.

    I also think the publicity still uniforms worn by Spock, Kirk and Rand ARE the same uniforms seen in The Cage and Where No Man... just with a black velour collar sewn OVER the ribbed collar. These uniforms did see some screen time (with the regular patch and braid) in early first season episodes on some of the background actors. The Man Trap comes to mind as one IIRC.
     
  31. niennumb1

    niennumb1 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Best ones I've ever seen were the ones I saw thrown away in a back alley, MWUAHAHAHHAAHH.... :love :thumbsup
     
  32. Jimbo890

    Jimbo890 Well-Known Member

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    I think most TOS fans would love to have all three 'regular season' tunics; Red, Blue, and "Command" colors. The patterns are not the issue, nor insignia or rank braids. It's the bloody material, and in the right color. To get an accurate replica, means ordering some custom material, and making your own, something a lot of use are not well suited in doing. The material cost alone, custom colors, etc. could be quite expensive. A group purchase would make this more feasable. AND having a professional seamstress make the tunics fit you, AND from an accurate pattern are all hick-ups preventing this project from happening. IMHO.

    Heck, even DS9's retro episode missed the colors and fit on these tunics. Too red, too blue and too yellow, poorly fitting, etc. IIRC. I think some of the trouble some of the folks that have made tunics in the past have run into is meeting demand. I once got a quote from JC, and the wait was 6-12 months, and cost was $300 plus depending on what options I wanted.

    Without a reliable supplier of accurate tunics, the 1701st is going to have some real problems getting the TOS uniform fans involved. I wish I had some of all these tunics, but sadly, thats not going to happen, any time soon, and I'm wanting an accurate version, not some dressed up T-Shirt.
     
  33. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    jimbo

    well said...

    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  34. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    We need to get Adam back in Action.

    He was for a time churning them out like there was no tomorow.
     
  35. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    And then came tomorrow.

    - k
     
  36. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Actually if Jose had not had screwed him over this thread would not exist.
     
  37. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Who's "Jose"? :confused
     
  38. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    His Tailor
     
  39. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Crap. Well that sucks. :unsure
     
  40. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    well i've been doing some searching, and if someone can school me in the "correct" fabrics for the different seasons i might be able to present some news... something other than the great screen caps...

    phase? anyone?

    dave
     
  41. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm no expert unfortunately. But here's what I know: the first season outfits are made from a material called "velour". The variety used for the tunics has a slight "glittery" quality to it. (seen in the patch closeup above).

    Here's a shot from my files, I don't know whose it is but it was posted on a board, showing the inside of the material, which looks much the same as the outside

    [​IMG]

    I keep hearing that this material is very hard to find. I don't know if it comes in the colors we know about (command "tangoldgreen", blue, red) or whether it has to be dyed. BUT interestingly enough the Next Generation uniforms are made from a material that comes in WHITE, and is dyed to the correct color.

    The color formula comes from the uniform patterns that are available from Rodd.com.

    http://store.roddenberry.com/store.cfm?categoryID=11415

    Or maybe it's in the TNG uniform manual, I forget.

    http://store.roddenberry.com/browse.cfm?ca...uctGroup=100970

    But in any case the TNG color scheme was consciously based on the TOS colors, but they're not identical. The "operations" goldtan color in TNG is reminiscent of the Command Gold from TOS.

    [​IMG]

    The Third Season TOS uniforms are made from a material that looks kinda stretchy, or at least quite form-fitting.
     
  42. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    From what I hear the Velour is next to impossible to find.

    The third season was lets say a synthetic material. I have heard it called different things then what it actually is

    All material in TOS was dyed
     
  43. GeneralMayhem

    GeneralMayhem Sr Member

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    Hard, but not impossible. And dyeing is easy enough to do.
     
  44. peter1701

    peter1701 Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess the issue is there is disagreement on the colors. Go figure.

    Anyway, if anyone wants to see what that 1701st group is doing, they started their own costume board. I think they are trying to get suppliers, but really to no avail. In the mean time a great resource for discussions, and you DONT have to be a "club member" to access the site.

    http://p075.ezboard.com/bstarfleet1701st

    Peter
     
  45. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    General... sounds like you have some info? care to share? :)


    dave
     
  46. John Cooley

    John Cooley Well-Known Member

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    Wow, been gone for a few days and the topic just grows and grows. :D Ok, a couple o' things...I should have been more specific about. As far as the 1701st is concerned, they do not require membership to access the board. From what I remember reading at ASAP when they formed, you do have to be a member to get a uniform from whomever they the end up using for their uniforms. This is to pay for a number of things not the least of which is fabric research and procurment. They intend their uniforms to be exclusive :unsure to the 1701st to give them a uniform (duh) look thoughout their ranks.

    As for an accurate replica tunic, that's of course what I want as well. I just thought that as long as we were going to replicate an accurate replica that a replica of the Donmoor tunic might be fun as well. B)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    For being cotton, and 31 years old, the 1975 shirt does not look bad :rolleyes except for all the gold missing from its patch...
     
  47. GeneralMayhem

    GeneralMayhem Sr Member

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    I know where to find cotton velour if the need arises. And the braid and insignias can be bought OR made as neccesary.

    ;)
     
  48. John Cooley

    John Cooley Well-Known Member

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    As for the replicas, I would like to see velour as that seams to scream TOS to me.

    Look at that sparkle... :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    John
     
  49. peter1701

    peter1701 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm sounds like there is momentum here.
     
  50. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    john --

    it SCREAMS to me as well ..

    dave
     

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