Terminator: Genisys

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

In regards to sending the T800 and Kyle back, it has to happen or T1 never will.

Well, with multiple timelines. Not true.

The trick of time travel and the sequels realistically means Uncle Bob, the Terminatrix, the T1000, the T850... all also have to go back. It doesnt mean they have to go back after the timeline of T1. They can go back BEFORE that time line. This is where the failed attempt to acquire the rumored time machine in T5 would come into play. Its a movie, they have twists, it could be the original T800 went back any time before Kyle yet when Kyle does go back to T1 he is sent at a different point in time. Kyle could be sent back in T6 yet the T800 went back in T5. Those types of twists could have made things real interesting and worthy of a rewatch.

Yeah, Kyle and the Terminator didn't have to travel back in time on the same day, same week, same month, or even same year (though, it'd make sense it being a last effort attempt to happen pretty close to when the resistance overtake Skynet and sends Kyle back. But again, that action kills the sequels - you simply cannot explain them convincingly.

The best way to save the series is to not try to shoe-horn things in done before by lazy writers and just stick with what makes sense - seeing as it is a time-travel story with multiple timelines (at least for the sequels) you just ignore things from T2 onwards and you are golden! :lol

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

and thats where TS messed up where it had the chance and motion to start fixing things. The skeleton of the plot is there so it can be salvaged but that means the next two films would need to have a strong focus. Considering what TS ended up as and the fact McG was talking going back in time to London for T5, forget it.

In regards to multiple time lines and sending the T800/Kyle back, it does have to happen. It already has happened. You cant change the future only alter it. Once you hit the end time line, what has happened up to that point will already have happened. It cant be changed. Were not talking reality but film and the Terminator movies. Its not overly complex, its a movie, those are the rules. Dont follow the rules and we ended up with T3.

 

[ONEYE]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Imagine a world where T3 and TS didn't exist...

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Imagine the T3 that went into soft pre-production in the 90's then where would we be?

Wasnt there a Cameron T3 at one point? I just remember hearing about the potential crew'ing of a T3 in the mid to late 90's.

 

[ONEYE]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I've been looking at recent pictures of Arnold, and, as much as I like him, he's just too old to pull off a Terminator. To see him at all in T5 I feel would make them write a script around his character creating plausible scenes just for him to be in. That's no way to make a movie, and would create more confusion in the story/timeline. I would prefer Arnold to be in an advisory/financial backing kind of role, behind the scenes. I would also hope that comedy (T3: "talk to the hand", "star sunglasses") would be left out. I am just not hopeful that T5 will even be made.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

ONEYE - he could work as a human character being harvested for his genetic make-up. Maybe even, due to John's encounters with the real Terminators has a run-in with and has a struggle whether he should kill him or protect him and ending up failing.

And Rob, the T1 we know can't happen as we know it, if things are continued to incorporate the sequels. Because most of the sequels are so crappy with their continuity... we get the reverse of what happened with Star Wars... where what we knew in the OT was ruined or wasted or ignored in the PT. Here... it is the sequels that RUIN, WASTE and IGNORE what is established in T1. It's sad really. There's just no way to salvage things now and have it connect with the T1 we know. The mess created in the sequels require a new '84 incident to be shown to make sense that things have changed. However... isn't that sorta Lucas'ish revisionism, where he uses the crappy PT to alter the OT? Let's, by God, not have that with the Terminator franchise. Any ignoring of the sequels are, as I previously explained, perfectly acceptable, as they are simply alternate realities (non-canon if you want to go geek about it) that are outside the T1 reality time-line.

I'm just sorrowful that I will NEVER see THAT timeline continued or the future war as described by Reese in T1. I really don't much care for the other timelines and what they show. I find them boring and out of sync with the awesomeness that is T1.

 

[gyoung2993]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I know my 2 cents dont add to much ... especially with alot of knowledgable people here,I am just a big fan ,of Terminator movies,series,etc....I either way ,would love to see another T-800 on film ,just cause the love of the Terminator sequels, would ever hate to see all of it end ,and eventually it all will ,I just love it all ,no matter what, I will take what I can get ,just a big kid I guess and sci fi fan........All good things eventually come to an end ,and I hate that......lol......

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Well, the T-800 could be anybody. It isn't exactly limited to Arnold's likeness. Would be interesting to see what happened to all those subjects that went into the time machine to test whether it worked. Skynet would have had some way to actually verify that it worked, right? So technically... it could have littered history for their tests. Would imo be interesting to see THAT story.

Or... coming to think of it... maybe not.

 

[ONEYE]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

TMG,
In T:TSCC there was an episode where a T-800 went back in time but ended up in the wrong time (30's or 40's). It looked at the stars to figure out where in time he was and then created a mission for himself. I have to say that T:TSCC really took a lot of liberties with time travel and in alternate worlds/timelines.

gyoung2993 - I'm with you. I'd almost watch a Terminator cooking show.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Well, I was thinking that Skynet was using it on the captured humans. Why waste perfectly good functional machines when you have all the available cannon fodder at your disposal. Also... even IF it worked and they appeared in the past... where would they most likely end up but the nut-house or in jail or killed. Would probably only use another machine in the end testing fase.

Anyway... it would probably be boring... but could be used to show the cold-blooded calculating nature of Skynet, seeing humans as nothing more than disposable test subjects to serve it's purpose and experiments, seeing as it couldn't exterminate them outright in one swoop.

 

[The Terminator]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

So when's the next one? I want more Terminator.

Who knows? I too want more, the world hasn't seen any real Terminator action since they made T2-3D.

Yes i live in a closet, please give me an example of something scientists have created from nothing.

Sparks and mirrors: Quantum scientists make something out of nothing | Mail Online

That's something.

all of which is you making assumptions to try and justify T2 and not what the actual WRITERS wrote to make the script/story of T1. i guess for the sake of this thread we'll just assume you knew better than them.

That would be Jim Cameron, who also wrote T2.

The only way to explain this mess is: they ****ed up big time.

Totally. Thanks a lot Mr Mostow and Mr McG :angry

Wasnt there a Cameron T3 at one point? I just remember hearing about the potential crew'ing of a T3 in the mid to late 90's.

Yeees, but then Titanic happened and the Terminator franchise sank to the bottom.

TMG,
In T:TSCC there was an episode where a T-800 went back in time but ended up in the wrong time (30's or 40's). It looked at the stars to figure out where in time he was and then created a mission for himself.

T-888, they weren't allowed to use T-800's in TSCC. Episode 2-11, "Self-made Man" and it was 1920 on New Year's Eve

I have to say that T:TSCC really took a lot of liberties with time travel and in alternate worlds/timelines.

Agreed. Some of it good and some not so good. But definitely better than: "Talk to the hand" lol

gyoung2993 - I'm with you. I'd almost watch a Terminator cooking show.

A T-800 model 101 making Bratwurst that would be hilarious.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I dont believe Skynet would send a human back or do tests on them. They wanted to send a machine back in time. At some point a light build would go off and they would try covering a machine in flesh. They would only need send something back in time one minute to know if it worked and then, even when it did work, they would know before they sent it back in time, lol. You cant travel to the future, only the past so Back to the Future mall parking lot rules are out.


As far as Arnold, you dont really need him for the T800. Roland Kickinger has already been the T800 and they didnt even need to digitally add Arnold's face over Roland's in TS. That was all for publicity and a way to attach Arnold's name to TS for the international market. Ive already stated they tried to bury Roland's name to further sell Arnold's and even go as far as calling him "the bodybuilder" in the making of features. Roland worked harder than anyone in the cast to become the character. He altered his workout to match Arnold's physic yet was still more massive than Arnold. This picture is a little deceiving as it was taken a year ago but you get the general idea. Its another thing TS got wrong, Roland was the T800. CGI mucked it up.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Well, I would certainly buy him as the Terminator, no CGI needed. The filmmaker just have to stop using the "angry" look. Intense, yes, angry, no! Angry is not the new cool. It just looks ridiculous and hamming it up poser honk look.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I dont believe Skynet would send a human back or do tests on them.

Well, think of it this way. Putting skin on a machine, they already did that, right. So sure, they could have tested on of those from the get-go, seeing as it needed to send the Terminator back in time to a time where people wore skin, you know.

Though, if you think about it. It could also be the other way around and why Terminators didn't appear until the end of the war. It was because that up until then, they didn't have skinned machines. When the plan arose to send a machine back in time, the first development would be to make a humanoid machine - hence the creation of the Terminator. Then they added skin to them. Rubber skin at first, as it wasn't evolved enough to spot the difference. All the while it is building and testing the time machine. But again... why waste machines that take a long time to produce if you have a steady supply of human specimens to test on. Would also give them the knowledge that nothing dead will go and only something covered in living human tissue would. So, frustrations aplenty when doing the math and thinking it SHOULD work and then experiencing that it didn't with regular machines, then with the rubber skinned Terminators and finally getting the result with the flesh skinned Terminator.

Sure, they could just send small probes through, built for the purpose and then advancing to the real deal once it's been established that it works. So... the building of the time machine and the requirements needed for the machine sent back in time is what creates the Terminators as they can then also fill out the need to infiltrate the human hideouts, that are difficult for the other machines to reach without alerting the humans and shot down before getting close enough.

Also... being in a post apocalyptic world. Skynet doesn't have endless supplies and endless machine building capabilities. It is limited, so has to consider how it treats its machines in combat. That's also one of the things I dislike about the T3 future scene. It just seems like an endless supply of machines with an over-abundance of resources. It makes it totally unbelievable and though catering to the fan of what could be cool to see, it totally misses the point of the desperate struggle - not only for the humans, but for Skynet as well. Making the enemy too powerful and its fall ends up being so unrealistic and implausible that it stinks - and it's something that lazy writers have a tendency of doing.

 

[SSgt Burton]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

That's also one of the things I dislike about the T3 future scene. It just seems like an endless supply of machines with an over-abundance of resources. It makes it totally unbelievable and though catering to the fan of what could be cool to see, it totally misses the point of the desperate struggle

Or maybe John was just having a nightmare about hundreds of advancing Terminators.

Like Kyle dreaming about burning to death in a car on fire.


Okay I'll say it- I liked T3.

Hated the "talk to the hand" scene (including the repeat when he's in the 7-11 etc). Hated the Elton John sunglasses bit. Everything else was fine by me. At least they had the cojones to nuke the World at the end.


...Although I don't know how the Terminator kept running after stuffing his last remaining power supply into the T-X's mouth. :lol



Oh and I used to look like that Kickinger guy... except I'm 11 inches shorter.


Kevin

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Hated the "talk to the hand" scene (including the repeat when he's in the 7-11 etc). Hated the Elton John sunglasses bit. Everything else was fine by me. At least they had the cojones to nuke the World at the end.

They should have started the movie with that! .)

...Although I don't know how the Terminator kept running after stuffing his last remaining power supply into the T-X's mouth. :lol

Well... hard to explain... except for latent stored energy in the chassis. Or... why bother.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

The sole purpose of the time machine is to send machines back, not humans. Metal and flesh are two different things. By developing a time machine to send people back is counter productive. It would take a hybrid to do that, one that has turned to help the resistance. Dont forget as well humans were kept alive and farmed as workers. Hybrids are half and half, they will know whats going on yet most wont care. Mankind created the situation, the machines sought a way out of the end of the world, judgment day, based on calculations. The machines knew they needed humans to build them up to a point yet in the original TS script they also accepted humanity and were set on salvaging it. This is why hybrids were created. TS had the idea that Skynet chose people to live, chose who would be hybrids, and everyone else was expendable.

So if you have those select few doing the time machine program, its simple to see why they would develop it for living tissue and not machines. If the machines were doing the work, living tissue would never be considered. If this were an old James Bond movie then yes, the machines built a time machine that only organic living material can pass through because machines have none. They would also have Terminator land sharks with laser beam eyes. Dont laugh, they had Transformers in TS.

Everything up to the T700 line was expendable for Skynet, then the T700 would be expendable for the death squad missions. The T800 would be developed as an individual infiltration unit. Why send 25 to do the job of one. As long as they have the factories, they can pump out lesser models as long as the raw materials are there. In TS, the materials were more than readily available as they were in every other Terminator future scenes.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Yeah, I was talking about the excess seen in T3. Though... that was pointed out to be a kind of nightmare sequence, so that may explain that.

Hey. I'm not laughing. Well... actually I am... just a wee bit about some of the choices seen in TS. Though, the reasoning that the time machine was built with the limitation of living tissue being caused by the humans building it for Skynet, then yeah... that sorta makes sense they would try to prevent it from being too easy for the machines to use. Though, saying that living tissue would never be considered, then consider this: Skynet had experience with the T-600 with rubber skin being spotted easily... so, sending that back into the past would not be a viable option, hence the reason for the living tissue anyway. + the fact with the living tissue then also means that IF the survivors seized the time machine, then they would have to go back without any future tech, meaning their chance of success would be down into single digits having to use contemporary weapons, when we already know that future tech was difficult enough to cripple and stop a terminator. That is certainly something that Skynet WOULD have calculated. So, if humans made the time machine, they just made it more difficult for humans to go back and stop a machine Skynet sent through - epic fail in my eyes, as the disadvantage to the machines is near zero, but huge for humans sent back.

 

[Zombie Killer]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Sparks and mirrors: Quantum scientists make something out of nothing | Mail Online

That's something.

Nice try. Unfortunatly they didn't take nothing and make nothing. A vacuum is not truley empty. It has what scientists call virtual particles, tiny energy particles phasing in and out of existence and the scientists used the enegy of a SQUID to give them the needed boost to become visible. So they took something that was already there (the virtual particles) and amplified them with a boost of energy from the squids 5% lightspeed movement. Hardley nothing from nothing. Only thing it proves is that vacumes are not truley empty.

Swedish scientists create light from almost nothing | Science & Technology | Deutsche Welle | 18.11.2011

 

[MooCriket]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Who would have thought such a poor film could produce such an informative, well written thread?! This is great.