Terminator: Genisys (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
A duology with a tv spinoff.
What? The show was good, but it got hit by the Fox Curse.
Solo4114
Master Member
I liked the show, but it didn't exactly fit with the T1/T2 timeline as I recall. It's been a while since I watched it, though. I treat the show as a separate entity from the film series. A good separate entity, but separate nonetheless.
Basically nothing fits with the T1/T2 timeline since Cameron's original future setting is now the present day.
It seems like everyone gets so preoccupied with explaining Arnie's age & the previous bad movie every few years that we remain distracted from the biggest problem of all. This alone demands a total reboot (abandon the 1984 date for JC's birth entirely).
This is a huge elephant in the room now. Writing around the problem is painting the elephant the same color as the wallpaper and saying it disappeared. You can do it, and it superficially works, but the elephant has not disappeared. It's going to continue to foul up attempts to accomplish anything else in this 'room' until it gets dealt with. And this elephant is steadily growing bigger all the time.
It seems like everyone gets so preoccupied with explaining Arnie's age & the previous bad movie every few years that we remain distracted from the biggest problem of all. This alone demands a total reboot (abandon the 1984 date for JC's birth entirely).
This is a huge elephant in the room now. Writing around the problem is painting the elephant the same color as the wallpaper and saying it disappeared. You can do it, and it superficially works, but the elephant has not disappeared. It's going to continue to foul up attempts to accomplish anything else in this 'room' until it gets dealt with. And this elephant is steadily growing bigger all the time.
Solo4114
Master Member
The TV show dealt with this pretty well by playing with time travel and shoving the story forward, if memory serves. I think that's probably the easiest way to make it all a single continuity.
There are other options, though:
1. Bounce the Connor clan through time.
2. Change the date of Judgment Day or change John Connor's role as a result of the T1/T2 events.
3. Claim that Judgment Day happened, and put us in the present-day war (no longer a "future war") and go from there.
But what was the original T1 timeline?
John Connor is born in '84 or '85. That is 30 years ago already. We are still nowhere near the level of tech advancement to produce any decent threat of Judgment Day, let alone a post-JD-era when mankind has spent years/decades in concentration camps before forming a resistance & battling the machines. We are probably decades away from that. Does JC do his Warrior-Savior-***** thing when he is 50-70yo? How was the original T1-ish judgment day EVER taking place in 1997?
This stuff can be fudged & explained away on paper but it doesn't fix the problem in the big picture. Real world history has spent 30 years steadily diverging from the projected timeline in T1. It screws up the plausibility of the entire franchise premise. Excuses can give us some temporary suspension of disbelief, but they don't preserve the air of real plausibility that the Terminator premise once had.
John Connor is born in '84 or '85. That is 30 years ago already. We are still nowhere near the level of tech advancement to produce any decent threat of Judgment Day, let alone a post-JD-era when mankind has spent years/decades in concentration camps before forming a resistance & battling the machines. We are probably decades away from that. Does JC do his Warrior-Savior-***** thing when he is 50-70yo? How was the original T1-ish judgment day EVER taking place in 1997?
This stuff can be fudged & explained away on paper but it doesn't fix the problem in the big picture. Real world history has spent 30 years steadily diverging from the projected timeline in T1. It screws up the plausibility of the entire franchise premise. Excuses can give us some temporary suspension of disbelief, but they don't preserve the air of real plausibility that the Terminator premise once had.
You forget the part where our world, the real world doesn't have tech from 45 years into the future which helps speed up the whole thing. The real world might move slower than the one Cameron imagined some 30+ years ago. But it is spooky some of the things that already happened in the terminator 'verse is happening here in our world too. UAV's driver-less cars, A.I.
T1 is basically a closed loop, a paradox.
Um also the fact the man directly responsible, Dyson and his work was destroyed in T2. Wouldn't that alone make Judgement day further along. It was only advanced along because of the arm and chip from T1 being found. Either Judgement Day is Inevitable but further away or avoided at all. If you regard the events of T2 it can't happen in '97. And yes T1 can be seen as a closed paradox.
Ben
Ben
Judgment day was prevented in T2 yes, as can be seen in the original ending which Cameron cut out.
cavx
Master Member
The "future coda" with old Sarah?
Laspector
Master Member
I've just never understood the original actual situation that occurred when Skynet first used the Time Displacement doohickey.
So, The Resistance has pretty much won the future war, right? Skynet makes a last ditch effort and uses the Time Displacement machine. They send back an Arnie Terminator to kill Sarah Conner. Then they say "Wait, let's go ahead and send back a more advanced Terminator to kill John as a teenager".. Then they say "let's also send back an even more advanced one that looks like a female to kill him when he's a little older." Then they say "While we are at it, let's send back one that looks like a 17 year old girl." Then they say "Let's also send back a few more, just to be safe." (I didn't really keep up with The Sarah Conner Chronicles--don't remember how many more there were). And I don't really remember who or what got sent back in Salvation--but you get the idea.
THEN---John and his crew bust in and he sends Kyle back to protect his Mom. Then he decides to reprogram another Arnie-bot to send back to protect himself as a teen. Then another Arnie busts in and kills John and his wife (or whatever she was) reprograms that Arni-bot to send back to kill the first female terminator.
I assume that is the point where the Time Displacement thingy gets destroyed.
Does it go something like that?
So, The Resistance has pretty much won the future war, right? Skynet makes a last ditch effort and uses the Time Displacement machine. They send back an Arnie Terminator to kill Sarah Conner. Then they say "Wait, let's go ahead and send back a more advanced Terminator to kill John as a teenager".. Then they say "let's also send back an even more advanced one that looks like a female to kill him when he's a little older." Then they say "While we are at it, let's send back one that looks like a 17 year old girl." Then they say "Let's also send back a few more, just to be safe." (I didn't really keep up with The Sarah Conner Chronicles--don't remember how many more there were). And I don't really remember who or what got sent back in Salvation--but you get the idea.
THEN---John and his crew bust in and he sends Kyle back to protect his Mom. Then he decides to reprogram another Arnie-bot to send back to protect himself as a teen. Then another Arnie busts in and kills John and his wife (or whatever she was) reprograms that Arni-bot to send back to kill the first female terminator.
I assume that is the point where the Time Displacement thingy gets destroyed.
Does it go something like that?
Yeah, that's the one.
Not exactly lol but fairly close. Leave out everything released after 1991 and you're golden. Also read the novels for the first two films
the T2 book features the whole future war segment they couldn't afford to shoot.I still hear rationalizations but no real solutions to the problem I'm bringing up.
Maybe this boils down to an opinion about whether T1 was really intended to be a closed loop or not. I've always viewed the movie as an open loop. In 1984 I think Cameron expected the audience to believe in an original T#0 timeline. This timeline had no time travel on either side and John Connor had a different father.
The theme of the whole franchise (at least in the Cameron era) was that the future is not set. It doesn't become the big tagline until T2 but it was already the underlying basis of T1 in my opinion.
Cameron, like George Lucas, has always made the series up as he went along. Leia wasn't always Luke's sister, and Skynet wasn't always based on the T1 wreckage.
IIRC even the name 'Skynet' and the specific name & date of Judgment Day weren't introduced until T2. In 1984 it was just "the machines decided our fate in a microsecond."
Once again, anything can be retconned & rationalized. But I'm focusing on the deeper themes & original intents. They do matter. And they have something to do with why only the first two movies were any good.
Maybe this boils down to an opinion about whether T1 was really intended to be a closed loop or not. I've always viewed the movie as an open loop. In 1984 I think Cameron expected the audience to believe in an original T#0 timeline. This timeline had no time travel on either side and John Connor had a different father.
The theme of the whole franchise (at least in the Cameron era) was that the future is not set. It doesn't become the big tagline until T2 but it was already the underlying basis of T1 in my opinion.
Cameron, like George Lucas, has always made the series up as he went along. Leia wasn't always Luke's sister, and Skynet wasn't always based on the T1 wreckage.
IIRC even the name 'Skynet' and the specific name & date of Judgment Day weren't introduced until T2. In 1984 it was just "the machines decided our fate in a microsecond."
Once again, anything can be retconned & rationalized. But I'm focusing on the deeper themes & original intents. They do matter. And they have something to do with why only the first two movies were any good.
Actually.... @9:06
I know it's a deleted scene and if it's not in the movie it doesn't count, but it does show that Cameron DID make Skynet based on the T1 wreckage from the beginning.
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JLeezy23
Sr Member
I would like to make crap up and say Uncle Bob was programmed before the T1 Anrie was sent back, and Uncle Bob warned John about the T-1000 but John didnt want to tell Kyle, and says to hide so they will destroy the time device and to wait til John says its clear to come out.
Let's say the original plan was to kill Young John. The T1 Arnie starts a fight with Uncle Bob and Uncle Bob is sent back to the 90's. Once he is sent back, Skynet sends T-1000 back to kill Uncle Bob and Young John (Skynet doesn't care about present John or Kyle, they're gonna kill Young John anyway, Old John doesn't even matter now.) The 1000 is stronger and more advsnced than the 800, so they send the 1000 to be sure Uncle Bob is killed.
John then says "Kyle lets destroy it! They never sent one back to kill Sarah, we changed the past!" Aaand THAT is how Skynet learned about Sarah. T1 Arnie is sent back, Kyle volunteers to go back because he says John needs to stay and finish the mission. And he also fell in love with a polaroid.
Let's say the original plan was to kill Young John. The T1 Arnie starts a fight with Uncle Bob and Uncle Bob is sent back to the 90's. Once he is sent back, Skynet sends T-1000 back to kill Uncle Bob and Young John (Skynet doesn't care about present John or Kyle, they're gonna kill Young John anyway, Old John doesn't even matter now.) The 1000 is stronger and more advsnced than the 800, so they send the 1000 to be sure Uncle Bob is killed.
John then says "Kyle lets destroy it! They never sent one back to kill Sarah, we changed the past!" Aaand THAT is how Skynet learned about Sarah. T1 Arnie is sent back, Kyle volunteers to go back because he says John needs to stay and finish the mission. And he also fell in love with a polaroid.
WOW! I didn't know about that. That's what I get for never buying a copy of T1 with decent extras.
But I still believe in my argument. I think T1 was written so the viewer would believe there had been a T#0 timeline and the events of T1 represented an altered timeline branching away from it.
Sarah: "Are you saying it's from the future?"
Reese: "One possible future."
Yeah it was, like Jeyl said. No opinion, just a fact.
They might...
Imagine going back from today and show Person X how Device Z looks, works and so on. Person X goes on to invent said device, a little earlier than he did in the previous timeline. In both timelines he invented the same device, only at two different Points in time. Did we change the future? Yes, and no...
JLeezy23
Sr Member
Reminds me of Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory. He says if he ever made a time machine, his first trip would be to visit his younger self and just give him the time machine, thus he gets it earlier in his life than his older self. Same device, same creator, but the altered timeline sets things in motion sooner than the first one.
