T-TRACK GRIP PROJECT

[3Tripnip]

Gino - I in no way wanted to knock your hard work, nor did I want you to relinquish any "rights". I thought it would be cool to work with someone on this, and I think we all have the same vision as you do. However, if you wish to continue this project down the path that you want, that's cool with me. I'll start drawing my own grips I guess and see what I can do. Best of luck on your run.

 

[GINO]

Sorry 3tripnip,
My post was in response to a pm from saberlover where he said it was assinine for me to take the standpoint that I did.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

I'm confident I can create an accurate drawing for these. This is a relatively simple diagram/render we are talking about here. Bottom line: total accuracy on this project is not a complicated process.

Furthermore, like Gino, I want total accuracy... meaning black plastic grips.

I think this is what we all want, correct?

Perhaps a little more searching for the right place to manufacture these to our specs is in order? We do not need to disban and go our own seperate ways just yet... we are all after the same thing here.

 

[steveday72]

Gino - what size did you end up with for the overall dimensions of the grip?

I've spent many hours over the past few years, scaling photos, taking measurements and working on an accurate plan of the grips, and I've just revised my plans. Well, started from scratch really, so as to not be influenced by any previous work I did.

Above is my new (current) version, which comes out to 13.5mm wide and 7mm high. These sizes may be tweaked as I work on it more.

Because I worked almost exclusively using the above photo, there may be problems that I haven't anticipated yet, so this is not the final version.

I made lots of versions, both in metric and imperial (inches) systems, so I could determine which system the originals were designed with. I determined that they're metric, as opposed to being designed in inches - otherwise, even if I rounded the design grid down to 1/128th of an inch, they were still too far off to be correct - and no matter what I did, I could not see how they could be 1/2" wide, as is commonly thought (because when I made them that size and overlaid their outlines onto the above photo, it was far too narrow).

Any criticisms or suggestions?

Is there data we need to combine into the two projects?

Steve

PS: before anyone asks me for CAD files, get a quote together to find out how much you are planning to sell them for - apart from having accurate molding, I want it to be more affordable than the versions already out there ($5 per ft is too much IMHO). Get it down to around $2 per foot and we can talk. Material should be black PVC or Delrin - something with a natural shine like the original stuff.

 

[Trallis]

what about metal? if someone could make fairly inexpensive metal ones i'd buy them

 

[GINO]

Since they were extruded, I would say that they were most likely made out of ABS. The shine/sheen is a product of the extrusion dies more than the material.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

Steve,

Fantastic work. I reccomend cross checking some of your measurements against photos other than that of the ROTJ Vader. Perhaps the diameter of the underside is too large a diameter or just too far sunk?

There is a place near me that does a great deal of plastics manufacturing... I'll look into some pricing if they even do this sort of thing.

 

[acerocket]

Originally posted by steveday72@Aug 1 2005, 03:44 PM
Gino - what size did you end up with for the overall dimensions of the grip?

I've spent many hours over the past few years, scaling photos, taking measurements and working on an accurate plan of the grips, and I've just revised my plans. Well, started from scratch really, so as to not be influenced by any previous work I did.

Above is my new (current) version, which comes out to 13.5mm wide and 7mm high.  These sizes may be tweaked as I work on it more.

Because I worked almost exclusively using the above photo, there may be problems that I haven't anticipated yet, so this is not the final version.

I made lots of versions, both in metric and imperial (inches) systems, so I could determine which system the originals were designed with.  I determined that they're metric, as opposed to being designed in inches - otherwise, even if I rounded the design grid down to 1/128th of an inch, they were still too far off to be correct - and no matter what I did, I could not see how they could be 1/2" wide, as is commonly thought (because when I made them that size and overlaid their outlines onto the above photo, it was far too narrow).

Any criticisms or suggestions?

Is there data we need to combine into the two projects?

Steve

PS: before anyone asks me for CAD files, get a quote together to find out how much you are planning to sell them for - apart from having accurate molding, I want it to be more affordable than the versions already out there ($5 per ft is too much IMHO).  Get it down to around $2 per foot and we can talk. Material should be black PVC or Delrin - something with a natural shine like the original stuff.

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I once thought about getting some black ABS grip material injection molded. I used some rather crude dimensions to make a drawing to get quoted. Basically to get the 2.00 a foot price, I had to order 750 1 foot long pieces (about 1 buck each with a 700.00 tooling charge). It is possible, but I don't know if anybody would be willing to take the risk of ordering 1500.00 dollars worth of product on the chance that people would buy it. I got a more reasonable quote of about 4.00 a foot for a much smaller order that one could sell. I guess the question is how much do you want to pay for accuracy versus what already exists.

 

[GINO]

The question is what would one be willing to pay for an uber accurate set of grips.
I'd pay $30 for a set.

 

[Trallis]

I'd hope if someone did these that they wouldnt be more expensive than $5 a foot. My main intention is for e-11 use right now

 

[GINO]

In regards to replica props, I've not found many exceptions to this rule:

inexpensive = inaccurate

I can't see the logic in spending hundreds of dollars on a saber or blaster and then becoming a scrooge when it comes to one of the most important details.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

I'd spend some bucks for a good set too... $30 (though expensive as grips go) would be worth it in my mind.

 

[GINO]

You would have to sell 50 sets of grips at $30 to spend $1500 for their production.

I've got about 5 sabers in my collection that could use them. How about you?

 

[franz bolo]

Or 100 grips for $15.00

FB

 

[TheRealMcFly]

I'd buy enough for two... but would be willing to purchase more to make this happen...

I'm very excited about these grips.

 

[acerocket]

Well the best quote I got was a very preliminary quote but I could have gotten 250 12" lengths for about 4 bucks each. Assuming an ANH Luke saber with 7 grips, and allowing for a few oops when cutting, figure 2 grips per 12" piece. You would need 4 pieces of grip material (16.00) for a set of grips. 250 divided by 4 gives roughly enough material for 62 sabers. Granted, the more you buy the cheaper the price. I guess you could buy 250 pieces at 4 bucks each and sell them for 15.00 each and you would only need to sell 100 pieces. It's not the individual piece that costs money, it's the tooling. For the 250 piece quote, the biggest cost is the extrusion die (nearly 700.00), after that, the plastic is cheap.

Divide a big number a few times and you have a few less big numbers - divide that big number many, many times and you have a bunch of small numbers. This is where the cost per piece can be a killer.

 

[tk421mv7]

Sorry to jump in late in the game, but I have a LOT of work that needs grip material. I plan to re-do my Luke ANH, Vader ANH and ESB as well as put grips on an E-11. This project could really help me out and I don't have an issue with paying for quality work.

 

[steveday72]

I think what everyone is forgetting here is that the T-track needs to be made to cover a wide variety of uses.

The grips for ANH sabers are one length, the grips for Luke's ESB sabers are another, the grips for Vader's ESB is different still, so are the grips for Vader's ROTJ, then we have much longer lengths needed for the Stormtrooper blaster barrel vents (around 10-12 inches x 6 pieces).

This brings up another point - in photos of screen-used E-11's, you can see how the ends of the molding are cut and bent down into the Sterling SMG's holes along the barrel. The sides of the molding flares and rucks up because of the bending, which would indicate a somewhat pliable material.

Here's part of the image from the Star Wars Chronicles book:

Look at the left side, near the end of the barrel. The piece of molding facing the camer flares out where it is bent down and into the barrel vent.
Now look at the right side, near the magazine receiver. Notice the piece of molding on the top of the barrel - look at how the upright waivers (seen by the crinkles along it's top edge) due to the end being bent down and into the barrel vent.

These are clues as to the original material the T-tracks were made from. If you want authenticity, then hard rigid materials aren't the right choice.

I didn't think ABS was that flexible?? At least not without producing heaving white stress marks in the plastic.


Steve

 

[bowjunkie35]

Steve,

This is why I STILL believe that the T-track for the E-11's anyway, was rubber. Believe me, I do this stuff everyday. I have repeated myself in thread after thread about the laws of physics. The giveaway here is the bend. The upright T acts as a stabilizer. If this material were ridgid (again I speak only of the E-11 grips) there is no physical way possible to bend this into the holes without kinking the top "T". I have tried it with both ridgid plastic, and metal (aluminum and brass)

I can post pics again if need be, but I doubt that I can convince anybody.

 

[bowjunkie35]

On a side note. The arcade moulding extrusion idea was a good one. That particular plastic is more ridgid than rubber, but still flexible. Think exterior automotive trim.