Absolutely, SWC! I'm *certain* Russell was invited to attend, but the question is...would he, if he feels like his nephew disrespected "the game", which Russell loves and respects so much?
The Wook
Survivor: South Pacific
- Thread starter BoozeBeGood
- Start date
Absolutely, SWC! I'm *certain* Russell was invited to attend, but the question is...would he, if he feels like his nephew disrespected "the game", which Russell loves and respects so much?
The Wook
BoozeBeGood
Sr Member
There's no way Russell is cheering Brandon on about how he's playing. But I can't say I see him blasting Brandon too badly on national television. Guess we'll see. I wish he was playing this season. I miss Russell
Regardless of what happens, let's finish this so we can move on to next season :lol
Regardless of what happens, let's finish this so we can move on to next season :lol
EXTREMELY disappointing... 
TallDarkandDisfigured
Sr Member
EXTREMELY disappointing...
QFT
I just about turned the channel... Of course it seems no matter who I cheer for, they never win.. The only time I was happy with the outcome was last season.
Although the One World twist for next season sounds intriguing. Just hoping there are no old players. A fresh cast would be nice.
Well, Russell blasted him on national television. :lol But I thought Russell handled it perfectly. He gave Brandon the chance to tell him to sit down and not critique his game, but when he didn't, and Jeff stepped in to tell Russell to offer his critique, Russell really let him have it--for which I don't blame him one bit.
Because what the frak?! It's incredibly insulting to Russell that Brandon said he wanted to redeem the Hantz name at the beginning of the game, and then he compounded the insult every time he repeated the pledge throughout the season. The Hantz name didn't NEED redemption. ALL THESE PLAYERS lie and deceive and manipulate. Like Edna said, it's what you sign up for. Russell just happened to do it better than anyone else in the history of the game. Unfortunately for him, he went up against two consecutive sour-grapes juries, who didn't have an Edna to straighten them out, or that lawyer dude on the jury last year who was so persuasive to his peers that they had no choice but to vote for Boston Rob, because he'd played them all like a fiddle. No, Russell never had an advocate. And because he gets tongue-tied when promoting himself...it happened to him again tonight...he lost both times.
But back to Brandon, I don't hate him. He's a lost kid. I don't like him! But I don't hate him. And when his lips quivered tonight as Russell was saying he didn't do a single thing right in the game, I momentarily felt sorry for him. But then the moment passed. :lol Because his uncle is absolutely right--Brandon was just God awful at Survivor! :thumbsdown
I knew Brandon would catch all kinds of crap when he went home, especially after we got to meet his father in the "Loved Ones" episode, and we saw the icy disappointment in his father's eyes as Brandon pledged to never lie. His old man was bitterly disappointed, because he no doubt is cut from the same cloth as his big brother Russell, and he knows what it takes to make it to the final 3. I'm sure his father hoped Brandon could repeat Russell's brilliance in getting to the end, but with a slightly softer edge, so as to not turn off hypersensitive jury members--Russell's only flaw in the game.
I said it in a previous post, I soooooo wish they'd chosen Russell's brother to play the game instead of his nephew. Even though he has the same Hantz intensity in his eyes, I doubt anyone would've guessed he was Russell's brother, and it would've made a much better season for us. Quite frankly, Brandon was a drag on the season. All his sanctimonious BS, getting the hottie Mikayla voted off for no good reason except that he was tempted by her, soooo much praying it would make Tim Tebow uncomfortable, and one capricious move after another. :rolleyes
Having said that, I'd gladly welcome Brandon back the season after next if it meant another season for Uncle Russell. :thumbsup Make it happen, Jeff.
The Wook
ps~Congrats to Sophie. It shoulda been Ozzie, but whatever, you played an okay game, won a few challenges, including the biggest one of all, and sooooo...I guess I'm cool with you winning. Ozzie was the star of the season, but his brilliance was almost exclusively physical, because he was quarantined on that island so much. We really didn't get to see his social game the whole second half of the season. And his social game was unremarkable in the first half. But, all that he did achieve, was remarkable. So I was pulling for him. But since it couldn't be him, I probably would have held my nose and chosen you second. Enjoy your million.
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Guri
Sr Member
Coach admitting he blew it, at times, was not really what I meant... :unsure I was glad to see Sophie rat him out. I was not surprised that Brandon forgave him.
Sophie's win was a second best scenario to Ozzy, but not nearly as satisfying. It was interesting to see her break down like that and to admit that maybe her confidence and aloofness wasn't as much of a strength as she had thought.
That and hearing Ozzy talk to the little girl at the end just once more made me realize how much people learn about themselves playing this game. Even if they don't win a million dollars, many people can win in other ways that change them forever.
I loved that Ozzy said it's better he didn't win because he would have bought an island and nobody would have heard from him again. :lol
I agree. But you know what, nobody playing Survivor COULD give religious people a good name. People expect religious rules to be about mercy, faithfulness, forgiveness, honesty, compassion, generosity... It's the opposite of what drives this game!!
I think it was Sophie who said it best, Brandon 'acts like he's playing this game with God'. You can and are supposed to live as if you're 'playing life' with God, but on Survivor that means, not playing Survivor.
I actually really admired that about Russel. It made me wonder if maybe he wasn't such a bad guy. He seemed to dislike the way his nephew played, but still cared about his nephew. That was cool of him.
That was tough. Supposedly religious people putting riches and pride ahead of love. Even Mr. lie about Grandma's death had family support.
The fact that he was up there, not ashamed of how he played, holding it together despite the lack of their support was impressive.
Sophie's win was a second best scenario to Ozzy, but not nearly as satisfying. It was interesting to see her break down like that and to admit that maybe her confidence and aloofness wasn't as much of a strength as she had thought.
That and hearing Ozzy talk to the little girl at the end just once more made me realize how much people learn about themselves playing this game. Even if they don't win a million dollars, many people can win in other ways that change them forever.
I loved that Ozzy said it's better he didn't win because he would have bought an island and nobody would have heard from him again. :lol
I agree. But you know what, nobody playing Survivor COULD give religious people a good name. People expect religious rules to be about mercy, faithfulness, forgiveness, honesty, compassion, generosity... It's the opposite of what drives this game!!
I think it was Sophie who said it best, Brandon 'acts like he's playing this game with God'. You can and are supposed to live as if you're 'playing life' with God, but on Survivor that means, not playing Survivor.
I actually really admired that about Russel. It made me wonder if maybe he wasn't such a bad guy. He seemed to dislike the way his nephew played, but still cared about his nephew. That was cool of him.
That was tough. Supposedly religious people putting riches and pride ahead of love. Even Mr. lie about Grandma's death had family support.
The fact that he was up there, not ashamed of how he played, holding it together despite the lack of their support was impressive.
Julia, let's just hope for a more secular season come this spring.
And ya know what I would do?! Instead of having a diverse cast of people in terms of their social skills and self-confidence, like we have every season, I'd have one season in which the teams were stocked full with Type-A personalities! Might be dangerous...lol...and that's why the producers wouldn't do it, but I dunno, I'm intrigued by the concept. Because quite frankly, there's not nearly enough strategy or bold moves in this game--Russell Hantz being the exception. He made his seasons soooo exciting, seasons without him, before and since, seem boring in comparison. I know you're not a big fan of his, even though you admired his avuncular handling of Brandon last night, but do you see what I mean?
The Wook
And ya know what I would do?! Instead of having a diverse cast of people in terms of their social skills and self-confidence, like we have every season, I'd have one season in which the teams were stocked full with Type-A personalities! Might be dangerous...lol...and that's why the producers wouldn't do it, but I dunno, I'm intrigued by the concept. Because quite frankly, there's not nearly enough strategy or bold moves in this game--Russell Hantz being the exception. He made his seasons soooo exciting, seasons without him, before and since, seem boring in comparison. I know you're not a big fan of his, even though you admired his avuncular handling of Brandon last night, but do you see what I mean?
The Wook
Yep, Talked with Rupert for a half an hour one day and he confirmed that they film two to three hours on tribal to get that few minutes of conflict. Jeff does everything he can to push for conflict during that time.
I thought Coach should have been the winner. It was interesting at the end both Albert and Sophie tried to say they manipulated the game and you could see coach disagreeing but shut down a bit. It really was coach in my opinion who played the game. Disappointed with his tact, but it was really necessary.
I agree with Ozzy, Sophie had that brat sense of entitlement. Just did not sit well with me and Albert sat back and back stabbed when needed with no long term plan, just stay alive. Clearly did not deserve the win and the votes showed such.
As for Brandon, you could see from the beginning he is a guy in conflict with himself. I thought he really did find himself a bit more in the game. Its obvious the Hanson family is a bit vicious with their principles in how they deal with life and how they expected Brandon to act accordingly. The father visit was very interesting, cold and to the point, do what you have to do to win. I believe Brandon's take that, that type of mentality is what is screwing him up in life and he decided to be as honorable as he could be. Kudos to the kid for standing up for a belief system. I believe the Hanson's "have some issues".
I thought Coach should have been the winner. It was interesting at the end both Albert and Sophie tried to say they manipulated the game and you could see coach disagreeing but shut down a bit. It really was coach in my opinion who played the game. Disappointed with his tact, but it was really necessary.
I agree with Ozzy, Sophie had that brat sense of entitlement. Just did not sit well with me and Albert sat back and back stabbed when needed with no long term plan, just stay alive. Clearly did not deserve the win and the votes showed such.
As for Brandon, you could see from the beginning he is a guy in conflict with himself. I thought he really did find himself a bit more in the game. Its obvious the Hanson family is a bit vicious with their principles in how they deal with life and how they expected Brandon to act accordingly. The father visit was very interesting, cold and to the point, do what you have to do to win. I believe Brandon's take that, that type of mentality is what is screwing him up in life and he decided to be as honorable as he could be. Kudos to the kid for standing up for a belief system. I believe the Hanson's "have some issues".
Coach lost every single bit of respect I might have still held out for him by voting out Ozzy. That single vote negated 3 seasons of "I want to take the best of the best with me to the end." At the end of the day, the desire to win overshadowed the desire to test himself against the best of this season. I gained back the slightest, and I mean SLIGHTEST bit of respect that at the last tribal when questioned about his utter duplicity, he owned up to it, didn't waffle and didn't make excuses. At those moments most people do exactly like Albert did and try to find ANY lame excuse for their actions instead of just owning their mistakes. I still feel like Albert and Coach, both claiming to be religious-minded, used their "faith" in some pretty appalling ways. I know it is just a game and who you are in the game doesn't define who you are as a person, but when it comes to your religious belief system... whew... I don't know that I would be willing to throw it under the bus like that for a game...
Despite how annoyed I was with Coach, I think out of the final 3, he easily deserved the win. He is no Russell, but he pretty much ran that whole game and played an incredible game while Sophie made one or two good moves. I think this was yet another bitter jury vote against Coach. It is the one part of this game I do not like time and time again. I think those who work the hardest to do what the game is designed to make people do (lie, cheat, and screw one another over) do not get rewarded and that is lame, because so many seasons it isn't who played the best game, but who pissed people off the least by riding coattails the longest. I know that is all part of the game, but I don't care for it.
It was very interesting how much of the final show was about Ozzy and just how much Jeff let Ozzy speak. I think that alone spoke volumes. I do think it was crappy that Jeff asked the jury if Ozzy had been in the final three, would they have voted for him. That was just salt in the wound.
Agreed. SWC and I were talking about this and while it all depends on the people you are playing with, I think the cast is so carefully selected, that someone who tries to stick to the things you listed above is destined to be crushed in this game. You either have to be willing to set those things aside for the game, or you end up looking duplicitous... or you get crushed by people who aren't governed to any moral buoy.
It was great to see Russell and I still believe that Russell is the greatest player to ever come into the game. Unfortunately, I also think Russell is a one-trick-pony and now that he has shown his hand, he would never stand a chance again. I also completely agree with Russell that from a game standpoint, Bradon did NOTHING right.
Guri
Sr Member
Yeah. Survivor needs that to survive.
I wouldn't mind if there were people with faith on the show, it would just be nice if they didn't try to make it part of the game. If I was on Survivor, I'd be praying, but for personal strength to make it through the elements and difficulties and to be able to not take things personally or blow up at people. :lol But not to win... and not as a way to get people to believe me. If anything this show should demonstrate you believe in people because of who they are, what they do and their consistency NOT because of what they say they believe.
I see what you mean - in that why OTHER people found Russel so exciting, but it just wasn't my experience watching him. I actually really enjoyed the decisions that Cochrin was trying to make - or what Ozzy did thinking he could go to redemption and come back. I enjoy the show more when people I like that I'm not expecting to make big moves to try it. IF they win or fail.
Most episodes have some trash talking about other players behind their backs and I dislike that the most, especially when people are doing the SAME thing they are complaining about someone else doing.
And that was Russel the whole way. He was sneaky and dirty and he did play the game well that way BUT any time anyone would have any kind of plan against him he NEVER respected them for it, he got all paranoid and indignant, sincerely seeing them as being these horrific trolls... when they were just playing the game; same as him.
If Russel would have played the game sneaky and even if he realized he had to vote them out because they were on to him BUT understood when others did the same and didn't take it personal, I might have been able to tolerate him and respect his game more. As it is, ugh. Just awful to watch.
Good point. I hope watching his uncle and now watching himself he finds his way with a wiser faith.
I hadn't even thought about that - I totally expected him to throw Ozzy under the bus. But all of my respect for him and his word and principles was already destroyed by then. Part of what I loved about Ozzy was that he saw right through it. He outed him and that seemed to shock and 'hurt' Coach.
It was like, "You mean, what I did in the past means more to you than this lie I just told you swearing on my religion, again?"
I hoped he would learn something, but even though he came out and admitted what he'd done, it just seemed like more of him knowing the right thing to say like a parrot, but not meaning it if he gets in a tough spot that conflicts with what he really wants.
That's the thing, isn't it? Because in the world people compartmentalize all the time - blocking God out of portions of their lives because He just doesn't fit there comfortably or He gets in the way and they justify it by saying who they are is not defined by how they are in business or in the courtroom or whatever. But heart, mind, strength, body and soul doesn't leave much room for - 'except when a million dollars is at stake.'
And this is where you and I differed last time... :lol I still say the social 'game' is and should be just as big a part as anything.
Very, very few people are able to lie well socially; especially under those conditions. Either they overdo it, like Coach and it backfires, or they ignore it completely, like Russel.
Social insincerity is a skill that I personally do not like or have, but it is part of Survivor as much as any other lie that they have to tell to win.
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I was disappointed that Ozzy didn't win, but at least it wasn't like the season where Russell lost and we had someone win who did absolutely nothing (blonde girl who's name I don't remember...). I was also felt a little sorry for Brandon, just a little. I think he has a lot of growing up to do personally and with his faith. I think he found out that you can be religious, but religion can't run your life. Otherwise we wouldn't have brains.
For once though, I think the jury had some brains and didn't turn it into a "let's vote for the person who p*ssed me off the least" like it usually ends up. That's how Russell lost the game. People forget it's a game and take things too personal. I don't think all the people are like that in real life, as Coach would like you to believe, and I think Russell giving Brandon a choice showed that.
For once though, I think the jury had some brains and didn't turn it into a "let's vote for the person who p*ssed me off the least" like it usually ends up. That's how Russell lost the game. People forget it's a game and take things too personal. I don't think all the people are like that in real life, as Coach would like you to believe, and I think Russell giving Brandon a choice showed that.
I am still waiting for the moment when someone finally stands up and says to the jury, "Yes I voted you guys out. Yes, I lied and schemed. I am trying to win, just as you were." Far too often these people try to kiss ass to win their final votes. In a game of dishonesty and deception, some honesty at the end might actually work.
Had Coach said something like that, he just might have won. However, he sniveled by first voting out Ozzy and then later not standing up to his dishonesty in playing the game. Of course, had he faced Ozzy in the finals he would have gotten his butt beat.
For the upcoming seasons, I am tired of seeing repeat characters. No more Russell, no more Ozzy, no more Coach. No All Stars, no losers needing redemption, just some new people and their personalities playing.
Had Coach said something like that, he just might have won. However, he sniveled by first voting out Ozzy and then later not standing up to his dishonesty in playing the game. Of course, had he faced Ozzy in the finals he would have gotten his butt beat.
For the upcoming seasons, I am tired of seeing repeat characters. No more Russell, no more Ozzy, no more Coach. No All Stars, no losers needing redemption, just some new people and their personalities playing.
Agree to disagree on Russell. I realize he's petulant when he doesn't get his way, and ferociously vindictive when he feels as though he's been wronged, even in the slightest way...but I love him anyway for his fiery determination and ingenuity! :thumbsup
And so even though this Russell-less season paled in comparison for me, I still enjoyed it better than most anything else on TV, and Survivor remains a fascinating social experiment in my eyes.
Here's hoping for a compelling group of new castaways this spring!
The Wook
Guri
Sr Member
Totally agree!
Skalen Fehl
Well-Known Member
Great season! Too bad Ozzie blew that puzzle. Coach is a good man, but deluded. Maybe that's just him trying his best. Honor and integrity only goes so far and in a game where duping and being duped is the goal, honor and integrity goes out the window. As for Brandon wanting to redeem the Hantz name, I think that he did do it, but not like everyone thinks and not like Russell believes either. Brandon did not outdo Russell at all. Russel pretty much created the "get two girls to join the guy and ride his coattails" strategy.
My point is, that Brandon wanted to redeem his name in God's eyes. He didn't care to redeem or "outdo" Russell's game. He only wanted to put his Hantz name back in good standing with humanity and with God. After all, the Hantz name seems to be synonymous with villainous. And wow, we got a taste of it with Brandon's dad. The whole family seems to be so manipulative and I can only imagine what kind of childhood and adolescence Brandon lived. And that's why Brandon was at peace even to the very end. He went home proud to face his wife and kids. You don't see that very often at all in today's world. And yes, Brandon is naive, but he's only a kid and with experience will come wisdom. He has proven to the world that his heart is in the right place.
I'm also happy for Cochran. He got stepped on by his tribemates and they deserved to be betrayed. They betrayed him first. Especially the two lovebirds. There were only two people that I saw treat him decently and that was Ozzie and Dawn. But Cochran came home a man. Good for him.
My point is, that Brandon wanted to redeem his name in God's eyes. He didn't care to redeem or "outdo" Russell's game. He only wanted to put his Hantz name back in good standing with humanity and with God. After all, the Hantz name seems to be synonymous with villainous. And wow, we got a taste of it with Brandon's dad. The whole family seems to be so manipulative and I can only imagine what kind of childhood and adolescence Brandon lived. And that's why Brandon was at peace even to the very end. He went home proud to face his wife and kids. You don't see that very often at all in today's world. And yes, Brandon is naive, but he's only a kid and with experience will come wisdom. He has proven to the world that his heart is in the right place.
I'm also happy for Cochran. He got stepped on by his tribemates and they deserved to be betrayed. They betrayed him first. Especially the two lovebirds. There were only two people that I saw treat him decently and that was Ozzie and Dawn. But Cochran came home a man. Good for him.
Did you see how Russell spoke to his nephew in the follow-up show? My wife and I just looked at each other with a "wow". At first I just thought Brandon was a bit of a tool. After seeing how he got treated by his family, he's actually rather well-adjusted all things considered.
Now, I didn't think it was that bad and I thought Russell actually demonstrated a bit of love and restraint as he 1) told Brandon there was a difference in how he felt about him as a family member and how he felt about him as a survivor contestant and 2) he gave Brandon the option to have him not comment. That is more rope than Russell ever gave anyone else and I thought it served to show a bit of humanity in Russell.
Not only that, Art, but Brandon's been disrespecting his uncle all season long, with his mantra, "I'm here to redeem the Hantz name". Well BULLSHEET! The Hantz name didn't *need* redeeming! Sure, Russell lied and manipulated his way through his seasons, but so the FRAK what?! Virtually everyone does...it's just Russell's better at it.
Russell treated Brandon with way more respect than Brandon had given him.
Merry Christmas.
The Wook
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