Suicide Squad

Just because you don't doesn't mean I have any need to let people know I do... merely trying to educate you.
 
The Suicide Squad trailer has passed the BVS trailer in views.

Just thought it was interesting to note.


Personally I can't wait to see the movie. I certainly have doubts but I won't sit here and complain like a child because I'm not getting it my way. :lol
 
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

How dare you care about movies on a forum for people who waste years and fortunes on recreating items from movies down to the millimeter?
 
I think that it's a fair assessment of those performances to label them with a word each, if a bit simplistic. But that's the problem: those actors each embodied one of the specific traits the joker is famous for, while mostly ignoring the rest of a complex, terrifying character.

The joker is all of those things, and we so far haven't seen an actor portray the joker accurately at all. Nicholson was close, and Hammill is awesome but we're talking live action here.

Honestly, I know there are countless people to whom Ledger is the ultimate joker, but seriously, he got the character completely wrong. He worked amazingly as Nolan's version of the joker, and the performance itself was awesome, but definitely nothing like the Comic book joker at all.

Setting the visual design aside for a moment, Leto's joker honestly seems like he could be the closest to comic accurate we've seen. Obviously there's no way to be certain until the movie comes out, but he is an amazing actor and is well known for putting everything he has into his performances to be the best he can be. I have already been very vocal about my dislike of the tattoos and grill, and it still really bothers me to be honest, but purely in terms of performance and physicality, I think Leto will be the best we've seen.

Also, a slight tangent: I don't know how anyone else feels as it hasn't been discussed heaps so far, but I honestly love the Jason Todd theory. I've got a lot to say about it but I'll leave it at that now because this comment is huge... I'll contribute more if other people want to discuss it though.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
 
CB2001 said:
I don't mean to be rude in this response (nor do I intend to be, and I apologize if it comes off as such). Actually, all aspects of the Joker will be officially seen on screen (be it TV or movie) in live action. You had Cesar Romero who played The Clown side of the Joker. You had Jack Nicholson who played the gangster side of the Joker. Ledger played the anarchist side. And now, Leto is playing the psychotic side of Joker.

By how it sounds to me, what you're really waiting for is someone to play the Joker with all those sides in one package. I could very well be wrong with this interpretation of the various portrayals of the Joker and what you may actually be waiting for. However, as long as there's still a fan base, there's always the likelihood a definitive Joker will come along or at least a Joker you feel is close enough to being THE Joker.
Click to expand...

Not rude at all, like I said I am waiting for what I feel, in my opinion, is the ultimate live action version of the Joker. I enjoyed Romero's, Nicholson's, and Ledger's performances but I don't think any of them totally captured the Joker. I wouldn't categorize their performances as being one-dimensional but there is something in the Joker's comic book persona that hasn't been translated fully into real life yet (and may never be).

What I find funny is that some people are so hung up on Ledger's performance and consider the opinion of the Academy of Motion Pictures to be the ultimate last word on how the Joker should be played? Since when are the members of the Academy experts on Batman and the characters that inhabit the DC comic universe? The Academy Awards are subject to the whims of popular opinion, tragedy, and the bizarre world of movie industry politics and in my opinion are not the last word on anything. Titanic best picture of the year? Yeah right...
 
I think that it would be fair to say that what the Acadmey's nomination of Ledger for his performance as the Joker meant was that it was a very good performance. But that's not the same thing as saying that he was a good Joker.
 
thequackdealer said:
Already had two jokers that were very clearly THE joker. Heath ledger on screen, and Mark Hamill on TV/GAMES. We don't need another joker, I know they will keep making these movies because money. But we don't need another joker, we already got the best we were going to get. Only comic book character to be recognized by the academy, and there's reason for that.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but Heath Ledger is not THE Joker. He played Christopher Nolan's non-canon, one-off version of the Joker. Ledger's performance was amazing, but what he did is not an accurate portrayal of the comic book Joker. Sure, he won an Academy Award for it, but the people who vote on those aren't comic book fans, they're stuffy old business men. The reason Heath Ledger won that award is BECAUSE his performance wasn't too "comic-bookish" (and honestly, in small part because his death caused a lot more attention to be brought to the role from people who otherwise wouldn't have looked twice at another comic book movie).

The award wasn't for "most accurate portrayal of a comic book character", it was for best performance in a supporting role. So they loved his performance, but in no relation to the actual character's history.

Mark Hamill, on the other hand, is really amazing, and most of his work is in TV/Animated Films/Video Games that directly adapt stories from the comics; Hence his success and why fans love him so much: He is actually playing the real Joker accurately.
 
Is anybody else tired of people saying: "We haven't seen the true to comic version of (insert superhero/villain name here)"? Seriously? Sorry to burst peoples bubbles but MOST OF THE COMIC BOOKS STORIES DON"T EVEN COMPARE TO FILM. When's the last time you read a comic book and thought (wow that was so good it completely changed my view of what this medium can deliver) I don't know about you but that has never happened to me with comics. They usually have extremely corny stories that wouldn't entertain a 10 year old. I don't want to see a "comic book" joker unless it's in something as corny like batman the animated series. Heath Ledger IS THE JOKER. Mark Hamill is also THE JOKER. But Heath already portrayed the best version of that character that we can ever get on film. All of these batman movies are sold, and are serious movies (other than the schumacher ones of course) So the joker has to be a believable character that could exist in that serious world. A psychopath mutilating himself, and putting on makeup is very believable. A psychopath picking out self referential tattoos, and looking the way Leto's joker does is not believable. Look at man of steel, this character is in that serious of a universe? Really? He looks like a joke so no matter how good a performance leto gives it will always be undermined by his utterly retarded character design.
 
And can everyone quit saying "don't you think they only gave ledger an Oscar because he died?" Are you guys ****ing serious?
Look:


Other than tropic thunder which is laughable, and possibly pretty racist that he got nominated for that. Do you even remember ANY of these performances? Probably not. I mean *******. There's an argument to be made for best picture. Certainly leagues better than slumdog! Heath Ledger was ASTOUNDING as the joker. This is literally the only place I have heard people bitch about his performance. I knew people on the RPF were picky, but are you really THAT PICKY? If you didn't like Heath Ledgers joker then you still have Mark Hamill's joker. But I will guarantee one thing: Jared Leto won't compare to either of them. The director alone means he's doomed.
 
I hated Nolan's Batman series outside of a few things: first and foremost was Ledger's performance as the Joker - I'll agree that it wasn't a perfect depiction of the character (not by a longshot). I also loved Oldman's performance as Gordon - had they not done the whole faked death bit, I may've liked his character and arc that much more.

RDj gave a great performance in Tropic Thunder - I don't think it was racist. Hoffman and Shannon are great actors in their own right and in any given performance might deserve an Oscar nod - Milk was a solid film, but Brolin's performance didn't really stand out for me. In my book, Ledger deserved his Oscar ...and Dark Knight did not deserve an Oscar nod - not. even. close.

As far Suicide Squad - they cast a well renowned, Oscar-winning actor as the Joker. What origin or characterization we'll see has yet to be revealed - to label him as 'psychotic' when all the versions of the Joker we've seen have been nothing less than psychotic is a disservice to the previous versions of the character and just as importantly: we've only seen mere seconds of his performance. What we do know is that he has tattoos and dental work that has been less than well received by many... and some think his voice sounds a lot like Ledger's performance.

I - for one - hate the look of the new Joker. It looks like a bad parody to me, I think they could've opted for an original look that felt more like the Joker we know. I also feel that Leto sounded so much like Ledger, that it almost sounded like an impersonation. But, at least the laugh was original.
 
You loved Heath's performance, we get it, so did I. The Dark Knight is still my all time favourite comic book movie and one of my favorite movie altogether. But your guarantee is pretty laughable, there is no way to know for sure on what spectrum Leto will end up. His character design has little impact on his performance. Would a tattoo on Ledger's Joker forehead would have hinder is performance ? I don't think so.
What we know is that Leto, wether you like him or not, is a great actor and will go to great length to give his performance life. And we have Ayer, who has made some good films, some mediocre, but is known to push his actors to give their max. So it's not an acting issue here, it's all going to be in the script, which nobody here has read. We'll have to wait until next August to discover if the script will allow Leto to give us a one of kind performance or a disappointing and pretty forgettable one.
 
thequackdealer said:
Is anybody else tired of people saying: "We haven't seen the true to comic version of (insert superhero/villain name here)"? Seriously? Sorry to burst peoples bubbles but MOST OF THE COMIC BOOKS STORIES DON"T EVEN COMPARE TO FILM. When's the last time you read a comic book and thought (wow that was so good it completely changed my view of what this medium can deliver) I don't know about you but that has never happened to me with comics. They usually have extremely corny stories that wouldn't entertain a 10 year old. I don't want to see a "comic book" joker unless it's in something as corny like batman the animated series. Heath Ledger IS THE JOKER. Mark Hamill is also THE JOKER. But Heath already portrayed the best version of that character that we can ever get on film. All of these batman movies are sold, and are serious movies (other than the schumacher ones of course) So the joker has to be a believable character that could exist in that serious world. A psychopath mutilating himself, and putting on makeup is very believable. A psychopath picking out self referential tattoos, and looking the way Leto's joker does is not believable. Look at man of steel, this character is in that serious of a universe? Really? He looks like a joke so no matter how good a performance leto gives it will always be undermined by his utterly retarded character design.
Click to expand...

Haha, ok wow. Here we go:


Yes, I AM sick of people saying we haven't seen a true to comics version of the Joker, but that's only because I want to see one so badly and I'm sick of films getting it wrong. I'm all for artists, directors and actors doing their own thing with the character, which is why I love Heath Ledger's version and Nolan's trilogy in general. But the fact remains that even if they are great performances, they are not an accurate representation of the true character.

Do you know what I'm sick of more than that though? I'm sick of people saying "Heath Ledger is the only person who will ever be able to do anything with the Joker ever! He's the REAL Joker!" Because it's just straight up not true.


I've actually read several comics that completely changed my opinion of the medium and how it can be experienced:


"Arkham: A Serious House on Serious Earth" was drawn in a completely unique, abstract style and was the first comic ever to utilise different fonts for different characters. It is chilling and atmospheric and directly changed the way comics are written.


"The Killing Joke" told the backstory of the Joker through black and white flashbacks interspersed with full coloured "present day" panels, using a method of transition between time periods wherein two panels next to each other would copy the same pose that would spark a memory from the Joker, launching the reader into the next sequence. Also, the black and white panels included small details in colour, always red, but at the beginning of the story they are a pale pink, and by the end they are bright red, which was an awesome and subtle way to build tension and foreshadow the death and destruction the character would unleash once he became the Joker. This is commonly cited as one of the best comic books ever written and has directly influenced storytelling across several mediums.


"The Dark Knight Returns" finally gave Batman a dark, serious tone, paving the way for the Tim Burton film and basically every other "dark, gritty, serious" iteration of the character, including Nolan's trilogy and BvS.


It sounds like you either haven't read the right comics, or you don't respect the medium in the first place and therefore won't give it a chance.


Also... Comic books do, in fact, entertain 10 year olds. And 20 year olds. And 30 year olds, and 40 year olds. There is a reason superhero comics have been going strong for 75 years now, and there is a reason COMIC BOOK movies have become a multi billion dollar industry. The clue is in the title, buddy: COMIC BOOKS.


The Joker can fit in a serious story as his comic book version, there have been plenty of dark, serious stories in which the Joker has had a huge role, not the least of which are all three stories I mentioned above. And yes, a psychopath mutilating himself and putting on make-up is very believable, but it's not the real Joker.


You can't argue that comic book movies need to dump all of their "unbelievable" aspects to be taken seriously as films. If that were the case, Marvel would have crashed and burned instead of making billions of dollars, and DC wouldn't even slightly consider making a movie about a god-like being fighting a billionaire martial artist. If DC managed to make that look dark and serious, I'm sure they can fit a psychopathic clown in there without trying to turn him into a "real" person and stripping him of anything too "cartoony".


I agree with you about Jared Leto's Joker being a stupid design visually, they got that utterly wrong. I'm not defending the tattoos and metal teeth. I am defending Jared Leto as an actor though, and I think that his performance and portrayal will be amazing, and COULD end up being the closest to comic accurate we've had so far.


Ultimately, though, if you don't care about comic books, and if characters being portrayed accurately to the source material means nothing to you, then this argument is kinda pointless.
 
I know I've said this before and I know I probably sound like a friggin' broken record but....

The Batman series "Gothic" where Bruce faces off against an undead monk is one of my favorite Bat stories and I wish to all hell they'd do a film,or film trilogy,with Batman that was less super hero or even super detective and more flat out horror based with Batman dealing with the supernatural i.e. demons,ghosts,skinwalkers,werewolves and the like.

I can deal with this Joker,I can deal with Suicide Squad,ANY of it is better then some of the 90's films.
 
Athanasius said:
Haha, ok wow. Here we go:


Yes, I AM sick of people saying we haven't seen a true to comics version of the Joker, but that's only because I want to see one so badly and I'm sick of films getting it wrong. I'm all for artists, directors and actors doing their own thing with the character, which is why I love Heath Ledger's version and Nolan's trilogy in general. But the fact remains that even if they are great performances, they are not an accurate representation of the true character.

Do you know what I'm sick of more than that though? I'm sick of people saying "Heath Ledger is the only person who will ever be able to do anything with the Joker ever! He's the REAL Joker!" Because it's just straight up not true.


I've actually read several comics that completely changed my opinion of the medium and how it can be experienced:


"Arkham: A Serious House on Serious Earth" was drawn in a completely unique, abstract style and was the first comic ever to utilise different fonts for different characters. It is chilling and atmospheric and directly changed the way comics are written.


"The Killing Joke" told the backstory of the Joker through black and white flashbacks interspersed with full coloured "present day" panels, using a method of transition between time periods wherein two panels next to each other would copy the same pose that would spark a memory from the Joker, launching the reader into the next sequence. Also, the black and white panels included small details in colour, always red, but at the beginning of the story they are a pale pink, and by the end they are bright red, which was an awesome and subtle way to build tension and foreshadow the death and destruction the character would unleash once he became the Joker. This is commonly cited as one of the best comic books ever written and has directly influenced storytelling across several mediums.


"The Dark Knight Returns" finally gave Batman a dark, serious tone, paving the way for the Tim Burton film and basically every other "dark, gritty, serious" iteration of the character, including Nolan's trilogy and BvS.


It sounds like you either haven't read the right comics, or you don't respect the medium in the first place and therefore won't give it a chance.


Also... Comic books do, in fact, entertain 10 year olds. And 20 year olds. And 30 year olds, and 40 year olds. There is a reason superhero comics have been going strong for 75 years now, and there is a reason COMIC BOOK movies have become a multi billion dollar industry. The clue is in the title, buddy: COMIC BOOKS.


The Joker can fit in a serious story as his comic book version, there have been plenty of dark, serious stories in which the Joker has had a huge role, not the least of which are all three stories I mentioned above. And yes, a psychopath mutilating himself and putting on make-up is very believable, but it's not the real Joker.


You can't argue that comic book movies need to dump all of their "unbelievable" aspects to be taken seriously as films. If that were the case, Marvel would have crashed and burned instead of making billions of dollars, and DC wouldn't even slightly consider making a movie about a god-like being fighting a billionaire martial artist. If DC managed to make that look dark and serious, I'm sure they can fit a psychopathic clown in there without trying to turn him into a "real" person and stripping him of anything too "cartoony".


I agree with you about Jared Leto's Joker being a stupid design visually, they got that utterly wrong. I'm not defending the tattoos and metal teeth. I am defending Jared Leto as an actor though, and I think that his performance and portrayal will be amazing, and COULD end up being the closest to comic accurate we've had so far.


Ultimately, though, if you don't care about comic books, and if characters being portrayed accurately to the source material means nothing to you, then this argument is kinda pointless.
Click to expand...

A-fricken-men-dude. Better than I could ever explain or even conceptualize it
 
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