Suicide Squad (Post-release)

@Fawbish - You didnt think Harleys line before she cut out Enchantresses heart wasnt corny?


Yeah it was definitely corny. I didn't hate that or love it. It didn't impact as nicely, but I won't lie - until I saw the sword on the floor, I was a little 50/50 on her character turning... She had just lost Joker, the battle was looking pointless, they'd just lost Diablo too. She had shown how dark her psyche was with the "own that ****" line as well, and her cynicism for the world at large. So it was nice that she used that to get close enough. Didn't quite deliver the perfect oomph though did it?
 
I want my $10 back.

This movie was an absolute mess. Horrific pacing and some terribly forced acting... to go along with some really strange - even stupid - story decisions. ...and that doesn't even start to touch base with all that was wrong with Suicide Squad.

As the trailers and previews rolled out, I had some hope for this. Could Margot Robbie be cute enough (in looks and wit) to carry this? Based on those spots leading up to the release, I would've guessed yes. But, in the theater that schtick wore off quick and it went from "cute" to forced and contrived. While she definitely had some moments, most of them just seemed to fall flat for me.

Along with HQ there was Will Smith doing what Will Smith does. Only now he's a bad guy.

Oh, I guess there were some other folks in SS, too and they all had their individual moments designed to assist our leads in totally predictable ways manufactured to not take too much of the spotlight off of our (anti-) heroes. And while all of that is happening we have the absolute worst Joker I've seen onscreen - they could have had a cosplayer doing a Cesar Romero impersonation and we would've had a better Joker. Leto's performance could've salvaged a terrible looking Joker - but, he didn't work for me, he never clicked.

...and then there's the actor paying Rick Flagg. I'm not sure if this guy even read the script as he seemed to be reading it for the first time and it made the final cut. The Enchantress wasn't much better and her weird dancing (or whatever was going on) at the end was just baffling and almost funny it was so bad and out of place.

But, beyond all that - the one thing that really frustrated me and hate this flick was Amanda Waller offing the agents in the control room. Just seemed so out of place, so random and unnecessary that it took me right out of the movie and shaking my head. This seemed to me to be more of a desperate cry of "take this movie seriously" than anything and instead just flopped there.


Out of interest, why did you think the Amanda Waller thing was out of place? It was consistently shown that she was a manipulative, cut throat, ruthless government agent. If those guys weren't high enough clearance - that means she used them from the start to run the temporary command center knowing that she was going to execute them at the end. It also explains how there are stories about her that military guys like Flagg refused to believe - because usually there would be no survivors to actually give a true recording of events. I thought it was a good moment, solidified that character quite well.
 
Out of interest, why did you think the Amanda Waller thing was out of place? It was consistently shown that she was a manipulative, cut throat, ruthless government agent. If those guys weren't high enough clearance - that means she used them from the start to run the temporary command center knowing that she was going to execute them at the end. It also explains how there are stories about her that military guys like Flagg refused to believe - because usually there would be no survivors to actually give a true recording of events. I thought it was a good moment, solidified that character quite well.
While the execution of Slipknot was needed to show that our government agents were "manipulative, cut throat, ruthless," the way the killing of low level agents in a comic book movie - even this comic book movie - just didn't set well with me. She went from someone who will do what she needs to make things right. to protect Americans, if not the world - to someone that's just as bad as the villains she is using.

That scene seemed to to try and force her into being this badass that was not needed. She's killing folks that she supposed to be protecting... in the end, it lessened her character and instead of a manipulative and all that, she's now just a cold blooded killer.
 
While the execution of Slipknot was needed to show that our government agents were "manipulative, cut throat, ruthless," the way the killing of low level agents in a comic book movie - even this comic book movie - just didn't set well with me. She went from someone who will do what she needs to make things right. to protect Americans, if not the world - to someone that's just as bad as the villains she is using.

That scene seemed to to try and force her into being this badass that was not needed. She's killing folks that she supposed to be protecting... in the end, it lessened her character and instead of a manipulative and all that, she's now just a cold blooded killer.

Fair play chief. It's always a weird one having someone who is willing to do ANYTHING for the greater good, because thats always the question isnt it, are they a villain?

I think Waller was doing things for Americas interests and seriously lost a handle on it all when Enchantress when batsh1t - and to prevent anything from being leaked and therefore exposing the public to the horrible secrets that there are 6000 year old witches in the world, she knows she'll have to execute those men - and does so without flinching. Is that loyalty to your country or self preservation? I'm now realising theres quite a bit more discussion about Waller than I'd previously thought.

Below: random thoughts as they popped into my head, not really to do with your points.

Have you seen the Project Batman Beyond stuff with Waller in the animated stuff? I get the feeling from that mid credits scene that they are building towards that relationship here, consistently clashing on what the right move is. Batman uses her when he thinks he has to, and she uses him whenever she feels like it.

One thing I'm slightly confused about but am looking forward to a nicely fitting explanation - why would Bruce be able to protect Waller? My only explanation is that as Batman, he is more powerful as an entity (as a symbol, and financially) than the people who are asking the questions. So presumably Batman can erase or assist her in covering up her involvement in the Enchantress mission. Weirdly that endorses what she is doing, but then he may have larger things to worry about, like forming the League and needing that information. Or perhaps he is unaware of the depths that she went to in killing those men (the comics Batman definitely isnt always aware of what comics Waller is up to, even when working together).

The data from Lex btw, was more than likely only video and evidence of something metahuman taking place. It stands to reason that Waller, who has tabs on almost ALL metahuman activity that we know of, would have detailed files on Flash and Aquaman and others. We already know that Waller leaked information to Batman so that he could round up Deadshot.

And I think its fairly self explanatory why she wouldn't use heroes for this work, which is another complaint I've seen - she can't very well imprison one of these more powerful metahumans that don't have criminal pasts and therefore might be missed by loved ones and people that care, and then inject a good guy with an explosive device without it probably coming back to haunt her pretty quick. With the villains it's easier and as she is a "good guy" for the greater good, it is a necessary acceptable evil I would think.
 
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I thought Waller's offing the staff members was harsh, but it seemed like they were running low on helicopters - they were all getting shot down - and she may have expected that the Enchantress might turn them into disposable soldiers like the others they fought.

Speaking of, who shot down the chopper the characters were flying, as they were first getting into Midway City??
 
Yeah it was definitely corny. I didn't hate that or love it. It didn't impact as nicely, but I won't lie - until I saw the sword on the floor, I was a little 50/50 on her character turning... She had just lost Joker, the battle was looking pointless, they'd just lost Diablo too. She had shown how dark her psyche was with the "own that ****" line as well, and her cynicism for the world at large. So it was nice that she used that to get close enough. Didn't quite deliver the perfect oomph though did it?

Not at all. Thats what my problem was, was the tone. Im doing this for my friends? Even though youre supposed to be psychotic? And Deadshot not shooting her despite the fact that he was doing everything for her daughter, and Waller was about to let him have her free and clear and he "misses"? Dont put that stuff in the movie if youre going to water down the character. The dude is a contract killer. Dont mention the women and children thing either. It seems easy to me to not write yourself into a corner with that kind of stuff.

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I want my $10 back.

This movie was an absolute mess. Horrific pacing and some terribly forced acting... to go along with some really strange - even stupid - story decisions. ...and that doesn't even start to touch base with all that was wrong with Suicide Squad.

As the trailers and previews rolled out, I had some hope for this. Could Margot Robbie be cute enough (in looks and wit) to carry this? Based on those spots leading up to the release, I would've guessed yes. But, in the theater that schtick wore off quick and it went from "cute" to forced and contrived. While she definitely had some moments, most of them just seemed to fall flat for me.

Along with HQ there was Will Smith doing what Will Smith does. Only now he's a bad guy.

Oh, I guess there were some other folks in SS, too and they all had their individual moments designed to assist our leads in totally predictable ways manufactured to not take too much of the spotlight off of our (anti-) heroes. And while all of that is happening we have the absolute worst Joker I've seen onscreen - they could have had a cosplayer doing a Cesar Romero impersonation and we would've had a better Joker. Leto's performance could've salvaged a terrible looking Joker - but, he didn't work for me, he never clicked.

...and then there's the actor paying Rick Flagg. I'm not sure if this guy even read the script as he seemed to be reading it for the first time and it made the final cut. The Enchantress wasn't much better and her weird dancing (or whatever was going on) at the end was just baffling and almost funny it was so bad and out of place.

But, beyond all that - the one thing that really frustrated me and hate this flick was Amanda Waller offing the agents in the control room. Just seemed so out of place, so random and unnecessary that it took me right out of the movie and shaking my head. This seemed to me to be more of a desperate cry of "take this movie seriously" than anything and instead just flopped there.

Careful JD, if you dont like what everyone else likes, or bad mouth something, youre going to get guilted into being a hater, and your opinion wont matter because you disagree with with people and youll come off as negative and compared to someone else in a different thread. :facepalm

But yeah, I couldnt agree more. Everything you said was spot on. Well said.
 
Speaking of, who shot down the chopper the characters were flying, as they were first getting into Midway City??

IMO it was Joker - he had all the details of where they would be from his prison contact PLUS it would force another helo to the rescue which he could hijack.
 
IMO it was Joker - he had all the details of where they would be from his prison contact PLUS it would force another helo to the rescue which he could hijack.

Wasnt it the soldiers that Enchantress created? The ones they got in a fight with and Deadshot took out?
 
Fair play chief. It's always a weird one having someone who is willing to do ANYTHING for the greater good, because thats always the question isnt it, are they a villain?

One thing I'm slightly confused about but am looking forward to a nicely fitting explanation - why would Bruce be able to protect Waller?
There's a difference between doing anything for the greater good and the seemingly random killing of those agents.

Wayne offering protection also seems poorly thought out. This could've been worded or offered to us differently than what played out. We know what Bruce is working towards, but he hasn't gotten there yet - so his offer is both premature and shortsighted and Batman is neither.

I'm also guessing that Bats wouldn't approve of Waller's actions and the killing of her subordinate agents. Which might lead to conflict, which might make her actions less random and more a setup for the future. I still feel it could've been handled better - but, there is so much wrong with this movie that it's just another thing to shake my head at.
 
I really enjoyed it in my opinion. It did what it need to - begin to establish the DCEU. Unfortunately they are playing catch up with Marvel so this and BvS did contain a lot of information/content in them.

Suicide Squad would always be something hard to put on screen for the first film. I think they did use Leto enough - leaves you wanting more.

Critics need to lighten up with these films - They are leave your brain at the door Superhero films, they are trying to hold them against a cinematic masterpiece or something. I mean would they hold something like Die Hard in such light?
 
I really enjoyed it in my opinion. It did what it need to - begin to establish the DCEU. Unfortunately they are playing catch up with Marvel so this and BvS did contain a lot of information/content in them.

Suicide Squad would always be something hard to put on screen for the first film. I think they did use Leto enough - leaves you wanting more.

Critics need to lighten up with these films - They are leave your brain at the door Superhero films, they are trying to hold them against a cinematic masterpiece or something. I mean would they hold something like Die Hard in such light?

See, thats the part that bothers me. Why not try to make these movies great? Why settle for mediocrity? Granted our tastes are different, I wasnt impressed with joker at all, kind of found him rather annoying but still. When this type of movie dominates the landscape, and there are other films to compare it to, to learn from, why not try to make an amazing film?

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I'm not sure we will ever know unless maybe there is a deleted scene.

Bad filmmaking if we cant figure out a plot point of the damn movie. If we want to find out, we will have to buy the extended version! ugh. :facepalm
 
Shooting down the 1st chopper was done by the 1st squad of soldiers sent in with flag to bomb brother. He escaped after the enchantress & bro took everyone else out. So those soldiers then became those monster heads. The joker wouldn't of had enough time to get to the city to pull that off. Plus why blow up her chopper and risk her life? He 1st needed to get to the lab / prison to get the doctor. That way her neck bomb wouldnt be active so that she could leave the team. All in steps and likely hijacked that chopper that was waiting on the out shirts for the rescue call.

joker learned of her were abouts after the SS team took off from the prison guard boss.
 
The Enchantress wasn't much better and her weird dancing (or whatever was going on) at the end was just baffling and almost funny it was so bad and out of place.
That has to be one of the most pathetic scenes I've ever seen in a big budget movie. She literally looked like she had ants crawling up her ass or a bad case of hemoroids. I can't believe they didn't reshoot that.
 
I really wanted Boomerang to save the day with his unicorn. I felt like showing it a lot ended up going no where. I had thought it was what saved him in the stabbing instead of money. So it just ended up being a character quirk.
 
There's a difference between doing anything for the greater good and the seemingly random killing of those agents.

Wayne offering protection also seems poorly thought out. This could've been worded or offered to us differently than what played out. We know what Bruce is working towards, but he hasn't gotten there yet - so his offer is both premature and shortsighted and Batman is neither.

I'm also guessing that Bats wouldn't approve of Waller's actions and the killing of her subordinate agents. Which might lead to conflict, which might make her actions less random and more a setup for the future. I still feel it could've been handled better - but, there is so much wrong with this movie that it's just another thing to shake my head at.

It wasn't pointless to Waller though...? She explained - they didn't have clearance. She'd planned on using them for her goals and disposing of them. Almost every incarnation of Waller has that trait.

From Batman's perspective he already has a demi goddess on his side, and he himself is massively formidable, and he knows it. So the threat is still justified. Especially since she is the supplicant in the scene, giving him something in return for a service. I won't disagree though - I'd prefer if that scene was a bit more cleanly stated with motivation.
 
I really wanted Boomerang to save the day with his unicorn. I felt like showing it a lot ended up going no where. I had thought it was what saved him in the stabbing instead of money. So it just ended up being a character quirk.

...that they ripped off from Deadpool. :facepalm
 
I laughed at that bit with Boomerang! I immediately thought they were having a friendly dig at Marvel for the "Captain Deadpool" bits and lets be honest, the character IS totally a bit of a tosser in the comics, a B list villian at best and thats the way he was played .He had his moments, including that same scene with Slipknot, and within the team he played mostly the ass ,just like in the stories.
Infact I felt most of it tried to play very close to the original stories, including the plot with Enchantress and her brother, but it was noticeable how they are updating and restricting things that wouldn't play well with audiences. As I've said Harley was given more 'choices' with her character ie to jump into the vat of chemicals rather than being pushed, more of a 'lovestory' of equals with the Joker than anything else which seems to have really appealed to female audiences. I was surprised by the number of younger women at the first showing, very much like 'Deadpool'.
The end scene with Waller, does she know he's Batman? I didn't think so, I thought, because Wayne Enterprises designed the carotid bombs, that was her agreement with him that he took the heat. Her willingness to blame everyone but herself fitted in totally with the character. Shes really a villainess working for the government than anything else.
But I think the truth is that even Marvel was in danger of nearly dropping the ball with 'Age of Ultron' with the critics and audiences. That got alot of stick for ( and take a note of this phrase its getting used a lot) "FOLLOWING THE SAME GENERIC COMICBOOK FORMULA by the end '. Take that as you will, be it the heros smacking down hundreds of villians or just the one major bad guy ,but that unfortunately is the predictable arc that comics have always been about for decades.
But where Marvel has got smart is they have varied this by tweaking the formula through their films. by having in their staple cast of heros and villians people that both have character and charisma. Their best scripts are well written and generally have storylines that are more likely to come from from outside the standard comicbook plotting and be more like more like lcontemporay film and fiction. They also have a knack for choosing younger,dynamic and less formulaic directors and they have a fantastic production team that also supports and guide those guys towards making the film they want to have made. Its something you can see starting to happen at Lucasfilm now as they develop the Star Wars universe further.
DC thought they hit the comic jackpot with Nolans Batman ie always dark ,gritty,and realistic but that really works only for Batman because he is a simply a man fighting other human monsters. Superman works best when they get the humorous dynamic between him being the supoer hero god and the man egos working against eachother, rather than just all the angst of him being the outsider. They do seem to have recognised the potential of Wonder Woman, I just hope they don't panic and mess it up.
 
Well...I saw it last night. Critics hated it. People like it.

They're both right.

That is one mess of a film. They needed Zach snyder to do a "watchman-like" montage in the beginning and then let the film go from there. I loved the cast. I loved the plot. (I REALLY liked the ghostbusters ending and everything with the enchantress) but man, that thing could use an editor.

I hope to get more of this gang. I really do. But I'd prefer it if they were sent on mission abroad. Protecting the homeland doesn't really work for this type of crew.
 
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