Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[harrisonp]

Just popping in to say that I hadn’t thought about this movie until just the other day when I was watching a preview stream of “Star Wars Squadrons” and it made me realize how much I don’t like the sequels as a whole and wish these movies had been about the actually interesting early days of the New Republic. What a waste of that 30 year period.

 

[HeartBlade]

Just popping in to say that I hadn’t thought about this movie until just the other day when I was watching a preview stream of “Star Wars Squadrons” and it made me realize how much I don’t like the sequels as a whole and wish these movies had been about the actually interesting early days of the New Republic. What a waste of that 30 year period.

what’s your opinion on squadrons? Not sure how I feel because EA but they did finally produce one good Star Wars game (Fallen Order).

 

[RedheadKevin]

Why is it that the character of Luke Skywalker, as portrayed by actor Mark Hamill, has this strange and unnatural stance when he is holding his lightsaber....almost like the saber blade is attached to something, above and outside of camera range—perhaps a line, or a cable—that is actually holding him up?

Luke didn't quite have the hang of Force Projection yet, so his projection was a little off and awkward. That's also probably why he's holding the Graflex that Kylo saw blow up, instead of his green lightsaber. EDIT: Luke probably didn't know the Graflex blew up. My mistake. But using Anakin's lightsaber would probably be more of a temptation for Kylo than if Luke was holding the saber he tried to murder Ben with.
(In truth, I don't know if there's a "canon" explanation. That's just what I came up with.)

 

[harrisonp]

what’s your opinion on squadrons? Not sure how I feel because EA but they did finally produce one good Star Wars game (Fallen Order).

I will probably buy it eventually but I don’t have access to any of my gaming equipment right now so I’m not in a huge hurry. I like the time period though with the Empire being on their back foot so I’m interested in it from a lore perspective too. Apparently the campaign isn’t super long though and there aren’t any in atmosphere missions or multiplayer maps which is disappointing.

 

[cboath]

Return of the Jedi really explored the Yin and Yang concept of some evil existing within good and some good existing within evil. I mean so much of the conflict between Luke and Vader during their final battle really shows this idea so well as Luke is being pulled to the dark and Vader to the light. It really could have translated to some interesting story developments in the ST where they started to explore the morally ambiguous areas of life within the Star Wars universe and that perhaps not everything needed to be so delineated.

Especially when you consider (and I think it was explored in the EU novels) the idea that Luke's new academy allowed for relationships within the Jedi ranks. Because of his experience redeeming Anakin, he sees that the Old Republic Jedi were wrong to forbid attachments because it robbed them of their humanity. It was too far detached and without those relationships the galaxy suffered for it. For the old Jedi order, attachments were a weakness that could be exploited but to Luke those relationships, though imperfect, were actually strengths.

I always loved that idea because it took the ideals of the Jedi and evolved them by using Luke's unique experience as the lens through which the audience could have a new understanding of the Force.

I think that only works if you start with movies showing the academy. If the ST did that and the end of it was the fall of Ben...now you're talking. But you can't pick up with all that being over and done and focusing on the fallout.

 

[Psab keel]

Absolutely. And what's to say Luke started the Academy right after ROTJ? Perhaps he spent years traveling the galaxy looking for potential students so that could have accounted for Mark Hamill's age by the time the ST started.

Have the first of the new trilogy begin at the tail end of Luke gathering students and resources and then delve into the first day of classes. Then run from there.

 

[sztriki]

Absolutely. And what's to say Luke started the Academy right after ROTJ? Perhaps he spent years traveling the galaxy looking for potential students so that could have accounted for Mark Hamill's age by the time the ST started.

Have the first of the new trilogy begin at the tail end of Luke gathering students and resources and then delve into the first day of classes. Then run from there.

Funny thing is I get why they skipped that: it's really difficult to portray a school like this in a compelling and interesting way. Luke's training on Dagobah was more about Luke's character development than actually showing how Force techniques are being taught. Movie Harry Potter fails in this as well and the books make a point about the kids feeling they're in any other school after the initial awe: bored and overwhelmed by homework and classes, etc. There was a scene in the Witcher series where sorceresses were trained and it was just a bunch of people standing in a circle while the teacher was giving stupid exposition to the viewers, the most basic and non-realistic way of "training" portrayal. In the Witcher books the training part is one-on-one with one of the main characters, again, more about the character development than the actual material that's being taught.
This is probably why they skipped telling or showing how Kylo turned to the dark side. It's damn hard to portray a character's turn to evil in a believeable way (and before anyone says that the creepy uncle scene tells us, no, Luke says his mind was already poisoned by then). This is why the prequels had a really difficult task in portraying Anakin's turn to evil.

 

[CT1138]

Funny thing is I get why they skipped that: it's really difficult to portray a school like this in a compelling and interesting way. Luke's training on Dagobah was more about Luke's character development than actually showing how Force techniques are being taught. Movie Harry Potter fails in this as well and the books make a point about the kids feeling they're in any other school after the initial awe: bored and overwhelmed by homework and classes, etc. There was a scene in the Witcher series where sorceresses were trained and it was just a bunch of people standing in a circle while the teacher was giving stupid exposition to the viewers, the most basic and non-realistic way of "training" portrayal. In the Witcher books the training part is one-on-one with one of the main characters, again, more about the character development than the actual material that's being taught.

Which is why the training montage in Dr. Strange is one of my favorites. It's the most accurate portrayal of learning that reflected how I felt about education. Failing repeatedly in the classroom, until he got frustrated enough to just go to the library and figure it out himself.

 

[Psab keel]

I get that too. I'm not set on the idea that I proposed, but more interested in showing the different approaches that could have been taken as opposed to what they gave us.

 

[cboath]

Funny thing is I get why they skipped that: it's really difficult to portray a school like this in a compelling and interesting way. Luke's training on Dagobah was more about Luke's character development than actually showing how Force techniques are being taught. Movie Harry Potter fails in this as well and the books make a point about the kids feeling they're in any other school after the initial awe: bored and overwhelmed by homework and classes, etc. There was a scene in the Witcher series where sorceresses were trained and it was just a bunch of people standing in a circle while the teacher was giving stupid exposition to the viewers, the most basic and non-realistic way of "training" portrayal. In the Witcher books the training part is one-on-one with one of the main characters, again, more about the character development than the actual material that's being taught.
This is probably why they skipped telling or showing how Kylo turned to the dark side. It's damn hard to portray a character's turn to evil in a believeable way (and before anyone says that the creepy uncle scene tells us, no, Luke says his mind was already poisoned by then). This is why the prequels had a really difficult task in portraying Anakin's turn to evil.

I don't think it's hard to portray at all. The clone wars did it pretty well I though. Yeah, they had a lot more time, but they had to stretch it over the entire run. The PT just handled it poorly. No hint in E1, one instance in E2, and one in E3 before the mega jump to 'ok, i'll go slaughter a bunch of innocent kids'.

The PT just wasn't very interested in the details of the fall, just executing it.

If the ST opens with the academy and training - focusing on Luke/Ben, it can be easily done. The ST problem was they were more interested in trying to set up a new crew that they could get 6 or 9 flicks out of instead of telling a story and just used the OT actor's to sell the tickets. You just have to have the want to from those making it. They just didn't want to.

I mean, with the prequels, all they'd have to do to get Anakin to turn believably is to make him believe Obi Wan or Mace or someone like that killed padme. Or maybe tragically one of those 'save padme, or save the bus of kids'. Anakin thinks he should have save her and falls. The OT makes it sound like it's super easy to fall. Do anything out of fear or hate and you're screwed.

It gets much easier when the focus becomes a coherent single story and not about selling toys.

 

[Cephus]

It gets much easier when the focus becomes a coherent single story and not about selling toys.

Even if you want to sell toys, which Lucas certainly wanted to do, the story always came first, at least in the early days. But back then, he had people who were willing to tell him "no" and that's not the case with the PT or the idiots in charge of the ST. There was nobody to tell Kathleen Kennedy that she was out of her ever-loving mind. It's why it all sucked so badly.

 

[sztriki]

Which is why the training montage in Dr. Strange is one of my favorites. It's the most accurate portrayal of learning that reflected how I felt about education. Failing repeatedly in the classroom, until he got frustrated enough to just go to the library and figure it out himself.

I haven't seen it but that makes sense. The other thing that irks me with these kind of "training" or "teaching" scenes is that it's usually some teacher giving a little speech and then "okay, now you do it". Like WTF. Imagine your tutor giving a little speech about cars and travel then OK, drive to Frisco from LA.

I don't think it's hard to portray at all. The clone wars did it pretty well I though. Yeah, they had a lot more time, but they had to stretch it over the entire run. The PT just handled it poorly. No hint in E1, one instance in E2, and one in E3 before the mega jump to 'ok, i'll go slaughter a bunch of innocent kids'.

The PT just wasn't very interested in the details of the fall, just executing it.

If the ST opens with the academy and training - focusing on Luke/Ben, it can be easily done. The ST problem was they were more interested in trying to set up a new crew that they could get 6 or 9 flicks out of instead of telling a story and just used the OT actor's to sell the tickets. You just have to have the want to from those making it. They just didn't want to.

I mean, with the prequels, all they'd have to do to get Anakin to turn believably is to make him believe Obi Wan or Mace or someone like that killed padme. Or maybe tragically one of those 'save padme, or save the bus of kids'. Anakin thinks he should have save her and falls. The OT makes it sound like it's super easy to fall. Do anything out of fear or hate and you're screwed.

It gets much easier when the focus becomes a coherent single story and not about selling toys.

What you said is exactly why it's difficult to portray. That turning point moment, it was a choice, it was a love or others moment and the like. No, corruption is different, you don't just "guess I'll be the evilest man in the galaxy cuz I got very angry and disappointed". And it's even more difficult to pull it off as showing someone as a sympathetic character then their decline. Game of Thrones couldn't handle the concept either. Breaking Bad is the only one that pulled it off and gotta say they did it spectacularly. Or probably Citizen Kane for that matter.

 

[cboath]

Do we ever see Vader as the evilest man in the galaxy?

He seemingly answers to Tarkin in ANH. Tarkin blows up Alderaan, Vader is largely the tough guy in the room. He's answering to the emperor in ESB and on a mission to capture Luke. In RoTJ he's even moreso following the emperor's orders.

He doesn't have to fall to the most evil man in the galaxy because he wasn't. It was always EP. He just has to fall to the other side which is not that hard to portray.

 

[HMSwolfe]

Ah yes, my absolute favorite thing the prequels and subsequent media ever did—the softening, weakening, and destruction of one of the most iconic film characters of all time. Let’s all just ignore the actual films and pretend that a kid’s cartoon or prequel can or should inform us more on how to interpret that character. Because all of these films hold equal weight and validity, right? Because they aren’t just films meant for entertainment, they’re holy scripture, and that means every single word spoken by someone bearing the official STAR WARS (TM) hat is the absolute truth. No, kids, Vader was not a ruthless man responsible for the eradication of the Jedi, who casually murdered his own officers at the first sign of failure, who stood ready to betray his own master if the possibility of gaining more power appeared. Nope, Vader is an angsty man-child who doesn’t like sand and wishes he could just wish away his feelings. He’s a tactical moron, a show-off, not intimidating in the slightest, and easily duped. That’s Darth Vader. Yep.

 

[sztriki]

Do we ever see Vader as the evilest man in the galaxy?

He seemingly answers to Tarkin in ANH. Tarkin blows up Alderaan, Vader is largely the tough guy in the room. He's answering to the emperor in ESB and on a mission to capture Luke. In RoTJ he's even moreso following the emperor's orders.

He doesn't have to fall to the most evil man in the galaxy because he wasn't. It was always EP. He just has to fall to the other side which is not that hard to portray.

You can split hairs of course.

 

[harrisonp]

Ah yes, my absolute favorite thing the prequels and subsequent media ever did—the softening, weakening, and destruction of one of the most iconic film characters of all time. Let’s all just ignore the actual films and pretend that a kid’s cartoon or prequel can or should inform us more on how to interpret that character. Because all of these films hold equal weight and validity, right? Because they aren’t just films meant for entertainment, they’re holy scripture, and that means every single word spoken by someone bearing the official STAR WARS (TM) hat is the absolute truth. No, kids, Vader was not a ruthless man responsible for the eradication of the Jedi, who casually murdered his own officers at the first sign of failure, who stood ready to betray his own master if the possibility of gaining more power appeared. Nope, Vader is an angsty man-child who doesn’t like sand and wishes he could just wish away his feelings. He’s a tactical moron, a show-off, not intimidating in the slightest, and easily duped. That’s Darth

Ah yes, my absolute favorite thing the prequels and subsequent media ever did—the softening, weakening, and destruction of one of the most iconic film characters of all time. Let’s all just ignore the actual films and pretend that a kid’s cartoon or prequel can or should inform us more on how to interpret that character. Because all of these films hold equal weight and validity, right? Because they aren’t just films meant for entertainment, they’re holy scripture, and that means every single word spoken by someone bearing the official STAR WARS (TM) hat is the absolute truth. No, kids, Vader was not a ruthless man responsible for the eradication of the Jedi, who casually murdered his own officers at the first sign of failure, who stood ready to betray his own master if the possibility of gaining more power appeared. Nope, Vader is an angsty man-child who doesn’t like sand and wishes he could just wish away his feelings. He’s a tactical moron, a show-off, not intimidating in the slightest, and easily duped. That’s Darth Vader. Yep.

I’ll take the “kids cartoon” over the prequels any day as far as subtlety in his progression goes. The PT doesn’t show a believable arc of his character IMO. That said neither the PT or CW are what I imagined for Vader’s backstory.

 

[Joek3rr]

At one point TFA was to show Ben's fall. According to Pablo Hildago the story morphed from the 'Jedi Killer' seducing the 'Son.' To the 'Son' becoming the 'Jedi Killer.' And Ben's fall being somthing that happened in the past.

Undoubtedly that was all changed, because of Michael Arndt's feelings on bringing Luke into the story earlier. He really wanted Luke to be shown last. Also, for me personally, I like having Ben already fallen. It helps sell the reverse Anakin idea. So with Anakin we see him go from light to the dark side. And with Ben we see him go from the dark side to the light.

If Ben's fall had been shown, people would have complained that it was nothing more then an abbreviated sped up version of Anakin.

 

[Psab keel]

We've also seen Anakin redeemed so Ben's redemption is nothing ground breaking either.

 

[ghostryder]

Still lame:

New Star Wars book clarifies Snoke’s origins

A new Star Wars book offers some clarification on Darth Sidious' pawn, Snoke

www.gamesradar.com

 

[HMSwolfe]

What a dumb cop-out.