Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[Psab keel]

Except Rian undermines his own logic with neither Rey, nor Luke, offering any better solution to the problem by the end of the movie and instead rely on the same way to deal with the Sith, by bringing the Jedi back in the form of a one woman show called Rey Palpatine. It's not like either of them start a new order with a new view of the Force that has the potential to end the conflict for good. Luke dies and Rey is again left to pick up after him and Han and Leia who all turned out to be colossal failures. Had Rey and Kylo teamed up to destroy the First Order and then disarm the galaxy to try and bring peace, THAT would have at least been something different.

And people wonder why fans like me hate this film, and this trilogy, so much. At least if it had nothing to do with the OT cast or had found a better way to relegate them to the background (which could have easily been done by more competent writers) then I could have more easily embraced these new characters and their adventure. It could have been done and I've seen it done by the members of this forum who came up with much more compelling stories than what we were given.

At the end of the day I have my original versions of the films and I just choose to love them and ignore the rest. The worst part is that I can't un see those garbage movies and I'm filled more with sad resignation that this is what came of the story and those characters I love.

The chance to reunite Han, Luke and Leia one last time, for one last shot even, is gone forever. What a damn shame.

They should have just left it alone.

 

[HeartBlade]

Except Rian undermines his own logic with neither Rey, nor Luke, offering any better solution to the problem by the end of the movie and instead rely on the same way to deal with the Sith, by bringing the Jedi back in the form of a one woman show called Rey Palpatine. It's not like either of them start a new order with a new view of the Force that has the potential to end the conflict for good. Luke dies and Rey is again left to pick up after him and Han and Leia who all turned out to be colossal failures. Had Rey and Kylo teamed up to destroy the First Order and then disarm the galaxy to try and bring peace, THAT would have at least been something different.

And people wonder why fans like me hate this film, and this trilogy, so much. At least if it had nothing to do with the OT cast or had found a better way to relegate them to the background (which could have easily been done by more competent writers) then I could have more easily embraced these new characters and their adventure. It could have been done and I've seen it done by the members of this forum who came up with much more compelling stories than what we were given.

At the end of the day I have my original versions of the films and I just choose to love them and ignore the rest. The worst part is that I can't un see those garbage movies and I'm filled more with sad resignation that this is what came of the story and those characters I love.

The chance to reunite Han, Luke and Leia one last time, for one last shot even, is gone forever. What a damn shame.

They should have just left it alone.

to be fair, JJ came up with the ending where Rey is all the Jedi and repeats everything that was done. Not defending RJ because his “Luke was searching for a new way” comes off as BS when the first thing Luke says why he came to the island is he came to look for a place to die.

I’m also curious, when has inaction been the right move in a Star Wars movie? Although you can argue V with Luke, it was Luke entering the trap that allowed him to find out that Vader is his father, that he can sense good in him, and that Yoda/Obi-Wan’s strict you must kill Vader wasn’t the only way.

the empire’s rise also was a result of inaction. The blocked senate prevented the galactic republic from passing any sanctions to put a stop to the embargo. The Council and their clouded vision prevented them from taking any action.

I do think the Jedi Order was flawed and Luke did make some good points (the force is for everyone) but to say the order is useless and not dissect what was wrong and try to fix it, whatever new light order rises up under Rey is prone to make the same mistakes.

 

[Psab keel]

Believe me I'm not defending JJ either and I think he made some critical mistakes too so he's not blameless and I've said as much throughout the years.

 

[Joek3rr]

Ok, the RJ video seems to honestly delve more into what RJ wanted to see and make Star Wars lore fit around that.

The Jedi bring more evil than good? Except they were the peacekeepers of the galaxy and peace lasted under their guidance for decades. Was the PT Jedi order flawed? Yes but it doesn’t mean there should be no order.

Luke not getting involved in V was completely different. It was a clear trap to draw an untrained Luke to Vader to be captured and delivered to Palpatine to turn him to the dark side but Luke went anyway because he wanted to save his friends. Luke is now a master and has the capability to save his friends and others who need him. To not act would be foolish.

seeking a new light, then why did Luke say he came to the island to die? The Luke RJ is describing is different from the one he depicted in his movie.

And this anticiliary material Is still bad story telling. Disney may think it’s an opportunity to extract more cash from its fans but fans only pay of the base product is good. I don’t care about the old geezer in the beginning of VII who gave the map to Poe because he is just a mcguffin.

The order comment is infuriating because it would be incredibly disrespectful and stupid for Luke to come to that conclusion. Oh, despite their years of service, Yoda, Obi Wan, and all of his peers brought more trouble through their service than good. I’m going to just end their legacy and wait for some other person to propose a new, better way to establish peace. Not work on improving the system, just dump it in the trash. Well jokes on you Luke because the Sith returned despite your inaction.

And I think that's the point.

Luke may have a point, but he's going about the wrong way. But that's guilt. Guilt will do funny things. Also Luke straight up doesn't trust himself anymore. He doesn't trust himself to use the Force, teach, or anything.

And in the end, Luke finds a way to balance the two points of view. He can intervene, confront Ben, all without actually being there.

 

[Psab keel]

Except Luke's intervention only leaves Kylo more resentful and angry than before. Showing up and taunting Kylo Luke doesn't actually solve the problem, he likely just made it worse. There is nothing heroic about that whatsoever. Jake is a dick. Instead of trying to get Kylo to come back to the light or kill him, all Luke does is say I failed you and then vanishes to leave Kylo seething with rage.

 

[HeartBlade]

And I think that's the point.

Luke may have a point, but he's going about the wrong way. But that's guilt. Guilt will do funny things. Also Luke straight up doesn't trust himself anymore. He doesn't trust himself to use the Force, teach, or anything.

And in the end, Luke finds a way to balance the two points of view. He can intervene, confront Ben, all without actually being there.

I do see your point there but in that case, having Luke then die at the end after realizing the point is tragic and a wasted plot line. I don’t mind Luke being wrong and the movie would have been better if they focused more on the budding mentor/mentee relationship between Rey and Luke.

Luke could have felt guilty and criticize Rey too harshly During early training as seen in the film. However, Rey as an optimist and hard worker wins Luke over slowly. Luke intervenes through the force projection, maybe on a ship to pick up the remaining rebellion members at the end of TLJ and Luke and Rey continue her training instead of Leia (as making her a Jedi came out of the blue and doesn’t fit her character. She dedicated her life as a politician and general. She doesn’t have time to train and that is her choice). As of current TLJ, the one who helps Luke learn the error of his ways is Yoda and I can’t see how Luke goes from guilty and tossing the lightsaber away to catching and saying the weapon should be respected to Rey given that relationship didn’t really come to fruition.

you can then explain away why Luke doesn’t fight the first order (he needs to get used to using the force again, too old, can’t kill his nephew but can’t trust him) so Rey goes in his stead to redeem Ben.

 

[PrinceZip]

I haven't been following this thread, but after re-watching TROS several times, I just want to chime in here...

For me, TROS is one of the biggest disappointment in human history.
To "conclude" arguably the greatest intellectual property and storytelling — Star Wars — in this **** show is disgusting.

Yes, there are good elements and moments here and there (mostly technical; visual effects, acting, set design, etc)
But so many ideas that showed potential weren't fully realized because of break-neck pacing and poor direction by JJ.

The only way to remedy this would be to remake the sequel trilogy with a completely new cast and creatives,
Or to make the sequel sequel trilogy (10, 11, 12) and salvage the glory of the OT.

 

[Psab keel]

There are rumors of decanonizing the ST by making it an alternate time line but in my view it's too late. The damage is done. For me it's best to ignore anything outside the OT and just let it be 3 classic movies. Every attempt to add to them has failed and if no one has gotten it right since 1983 then it's time to just let it go.

 

[PrinceZip]

There are rumors of decanonizing the ST by making it an alternate time line but in my view it's too late. The damage is done. For me it's best to ignore anything outside the OT and just let it be 3 classic movies. Every attempt to add to them has failed and if no one has gotten it right since 1983 then it's time to just let it go.

Definitely agree with you there,
In my mind, Star Wars, ESB, and ROTJ are the only 'real' Star Wars canon.

I'm ignoring everything else as fan fictions, just like how Lucas is ignoring the Holiday Special.

 

[HMSwolfe]

No one’s ever really gone…not even this thread…

 

[cboath]

There are rumors of decanonizing the ST by making it an alternate time line but in my view it's too late. The damage is done. For me it's best to ignore anything outside the OT and just let it be 3 classic movies. Every attempt to add to them has failed and if no one has gotten it right since 1983 then it's time to just let it go.

I'd imagine that chat never took place at Disney or LFL. It'd be the biggest admission of screwing the pooch in history. Plus, you can't really do a proper ST in a redo as Carrie died and i'd wager the odds of Harrison showing up again are slim and none. Plus, with what you can't get back, it doesn't really accomplish a damn thing other than making both studios look like morons.

Plus, knowing the powers that be, they'd overcompensate in the other direction and make it Star Wars 7a, 8a, and 9a - Luke's pissed and out to kick some ass - for 6 hours!

 

[robn1]

There's no way they will redo the sequels, they're more likely to redo the OT to dumb it down to fit in.

 

[Psab keel]

That's why I stated that it's a rumor. I sincerely doubt they would retcon their own trilogy this quickly out of the gate. That would be an admission of failure and they aren't about to do that any time, if ever. I agree that if they were to remake anything it would be the OT. Which is a TERRIBLE idea.

 

[PrinceZip]

I know George Lucas had a different vision / story for the sequel trilogy before Disney threw his script drafts into trash,
With Rey supposedly as 'Kira.'

Deleting the ST would be impossible, so I'd like to see GL's vision come to life for 10, 11, 12.
Bringing George back as a story consultant with talented creative team behind is probably a good way to salvage episodic films and to gain trust from the OT diehards.

 

[Psab keel]

I think they should just stop making new Star Wars movies altogether but I know I'm in the minority on this so I don't anticipate making many friends by saying that.

But since they won't do that they should at the least venture outside known characters, places, timelines, and do something truly new. It's the only way the property even has a chance of surviving.

 

[HeartBlade]

I think they should just stop making new Star Wars movies altogether but I know I'm in the minority on this so I don't anticipate making many friends by saying that.

But since they won't do that they should at the least venture outside known characters, places, timelines, and do something truly new. It's the only way the property even has a chance of surviving.

im not against stopping creating new Star Wars movies but I don’t see it happening under Disney.If you can make money, make that money is Disney policy. Based on the way things are going, it’s more likely we will see a remake of OT with an all female cast than an end to the movies.

I also heard the rumor de canonizing ST but doubt it. Kennedy is still in charge and she wouldn’t allow it. It would be Disney admitting they f-ed up badly. I do think a great ST can still be made without Han or Leia (have them die which results in Luke’s depression and leaving the good fight, resulting in an empire sect or new power to rise and Kira/Rey rises to combat it or something.

 

[Psab keel]

They spent 4 billion to own the company so there is no question more will be made. My personal preferences don't amount to anything at the end of the day, but I'm just not interested in new material. I just feel that if they want their brand to survive then they have to branch out and stop relying on the past.

 

[Paul Andrew]

There's no way they will redo the sequels, they're more likely to redo the OT to dumb it down to fit in.

The OT wasn't deep, there's nothing there to dumb down. The OT is a simple, simple fantasy tale wrapped in scifi with a nigh universal appeal. The real problem with the sequel trilogy isn't that it's dumb or not as well thought out as the OT (which was made by the seat of the pants with changes happening as they were filming and editing like any movie), it's that it just doesn't jive with what we know about Star Wars as laid out by the OT.

I'm on record as enjoying these films, and I stand by that, but after some distance the writer in me definitely doesn't agree with a lot of the choices made in the foundation of this trilogy, and even though parts of TRoS still hit me in the nerd feels I can't help but wonder what the hell happened.

TLJ, like it or not, set the stage for a final film that could have been revelatory and instead we got a 2.5 hour maguffin chase with a few fan appeasements tossed in. The start of the film makes it plain that the end of TLJ didn't matter as far as the total ST plot was concerned, and that was a mistake. You can still bring back the emperor and have him be the central villain of the entire saga, but we need a much better groundwork, starting with the crawl.
This will be rough, broad strokes stuff, but follow me for a minute.

The First Order rules the galaxy. With the near destruction of the Resistance on Crait, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren searches incessantly for Rey and the remaining Resistance members.
(This gives him a reason to be off tearing through the galaxy, and when he gets close enough the emperor could reach out to him in the force instead of having a galaxy wide radio show that happened off screen).

Unbeknownst to Kylo (but knownst to us, ahem) with the help of the ancient Jedi texts and Master Skywalker, Rey has begun training a new generation of Jedi on Ach-To.
(This, I think is the biggest whiff of the movie. We could have gone a couple more years into the future and we could've had broom boy and Finn and some new characters learning to be jedi, and then we could've brought them into conflict with the Knights of Ren at the end instead of having Kylo massacre them like paper dolls. In addition, Rey could have a complex about trying to teach what she'd learned while being so new at it, with ghost Luke coaching her from the void).

Meanwhile, General Leia and Poe Dameron have been scouring the galaxy's underground in a last ditch effort to secure aid against the First Order...
(and here we could've had that meeting with the hutt crime lords that was rumored but never materialized, and gives us a reason to run into a scoundrely Lando trying to score one more time before he rides off into the sunset)

In 100 words or so you can set the stage for Finn to come out as force sensitive, you can give the reborn resistance a background, you can give Kylo a reason to discover the resurrected Emperor, and you can give Luke's ghost a job instead of a single trite scene. All without upending the ending of the previous film while maintaining some of the thin plot points that we got. All that having been said, I'm just a nerd on the internet and I'm not totally enraged by the film we got, just a little disappointed in it.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

In my mind, Star Wars, ESB, and ROTJ are the only 'real' Star Wars canon.

I'm ignoring everything else as fan fictions, just like how Lucas is ignoring the Holiday Special.

Which is ironic. The Holiday Special is a good concept, poorly executed. Kinda like George did himself with the Prequels. And, in his more honest moments, he recognized that about them. You'd think he'd be a little more forgiving of the HS, in that light...

 

[patrickivan]

It was so odd having Finn seem like he was going to place a more pivotal role after setting him up for big things in TFA, but only have him run around doing nothing in TLJ (because apparently Maz was far too busy doing more important things to help), and then do nothing but run around screaming REY in TROS.

I was positive he was going to be shown force sensitive and go on the similar journey with Rey. It was certainly a waste of his character.

I think there's just become too much Star Wars. It's taken a lot of the imagination out of that universe. Oh well. Give it 30 years and we'll see what comes out then when our Disney Overlords give us the remakes. Or Amazon. I have no idea who will own us all, but it'll be one of them.