I find it hard to believe Ford will slip back into the vest - and i don't think i want to see Carrie Fisher slip into anything.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Warpaint
- Start date
Darth Lars
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
There is more to the real world than can be described by economic/statistical models, and models have to be constantly updated to a changing world.
These days, the audience expects there to be fan service, and consistency within a fictional universe more than say, a decade ago.
I'm not suggesting that Lucasfilm would make a new movie sourced from the EU.
I think that it would be bad if the new movies would contradict the majority of the EU that is set in the time after ROTJ, because that could diminish the value of a whole swathe of books and comic books.
New generations of Star Wars fans appear from time to time. I am 37, and I have experienced there being waves of new Star Wars fans coming. We all saw it back when the prequel trilogy came. I have met people half my age who have been introduced to the OT recently and want to become more immersed in the Star Wars universe.
You can be sure that there will be a whole new generation of fans when the new movies come that will want to consume Star Wars material, and having something already there for them to consume would not hurt LFL's business.
Unless you are a financial advisor with special expertise in managing a creative franchise and that you have done so successfully during the last decade, I can not see how your opinion would have any greater merit than mine in this discussion.
There is more to the real world than can be described by economic/statistical models, and models have to be constantly updated to a changing world.
These days, the audience expects there to be fan service, and consistency within a fictional universe more than say, a decade ago.
I'm not suggesting that Lucasfilm would make a new movie sourced from the EU.
I think that it would be bad if the new movies would contradict the majority of the EU that is set in the time after ROTJ, because that could diminish the value of a whole swathe of books and comic books.
New generations of Star Wars fans appear from time to time. I am 37, and I have experienced there being waves of new Star Wars fans coming. We all saw it back when the prequel trilogy came. I have met people half my age who have been introduced to the OT recently and want to become more immersed in the Star Wars universe.
You can be sure that there will be a whole new generation of fans when the new movies come that will want to consume Star Wars material, and having something already there for them to consume would not hurt LFL's business.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I think you are overrating the value of the EU. They are alternate universe, so the movies don't have to follow anything from them at all.
I think you are overrating the value of the EU. They are alternate universe, so the movies don't have to follow anything from them at all.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Correct. I have been reviewing the analyst research opinions on this acquisition as it pertains to Disney shareholders and future revenue impact. I come at it from a unique perspective insofar as my career and fandom merge in tis instance. The amount of revenue generated by the EU is very small relative to a STAR WAR feature film release across the board. All new content will afford LucasFilm to create an entirely new EU based on that for an entirely new generation of fans. There will be no attempt to link this content with what has come before in any meaningful way. It creates far too many problems trying to satisfy a very small, vocal but small, aspect of fandom by trying to maintain continuity with the EU. The only continuity these films will concern themselves with are EpI-VI and MAYBE the CLONE WARS cartoon series.
Your opinion is valid and you are welcome to express it, of course, but it's a theory is not going to come to fruition.
Correct. I have been reviewing the analyst research opinions on this acquisition as it pertains to Disney shareholders and future revenue impact. I come at it from a unique perspective insofar as my career and fandom merge in tis instance. The amount of revenue generated by the EU is very small relative to a STAR WAR feature film release across the board. All new content will afford LucasFilm to create an entirely new EU based on that for an entirely new generation of fans. There will be no attempt to link this content with what has come before in any meaningful way. It creates far too many problems trying to satisfy a very small, vocal but small, aspect of fandom by trying to maintain continuity with the EU. The only continuity these films will concern themselves with are EpI-VI and MAYBE the CLONE WARS cartoon series.
Your opinion is valid and you are welcome to express it, of course, but it's a theory is not going to come to fruition.
Dave Ward
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I'm sure that Ford will be there as a cameo. But the point he, he doesn't really enjoy the character so he's not going to want to take center stage again.
I suppose it's possible that this movie would do something new and interesting enough to get Fords interest...or maybe the first movie new will be good enough he'll develop an interest in being in one of the subsequent ones. Lots could happen.
I'm sure that Ford will be there as a cameo. But the point he, he doesn't really enjoy the character so he's not going to want to take center stage again.
I suppose it's possible that this movie would do something new and interesting enough to get Fords interest...or maybe the first movie new will be good enough he'll develop an interest in being in one of the subsequent ones. Lots could happen.
seelsa73
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Can't we keep the kids and their names at least? (Jacen, Jaina, Anakin, and Ben) And Mara Jade of course.
Can't we keep the kids and their names at least? (Jacen, Jaina, Anakin, and Ben) And Mara Jade of course.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Well, if a new threat is to be introduced... some casualties are required to spring the heroes back into action and propel the story - I know it is very Joss Whedon approach - but nothing does that more than the death of a beloved character. Seems tailor fit for Ford reprising the role of Solo and not going on for another three films. His arc is over... use it to really show off the new threat.
Honestly... they probably will and could be the only link to the EU... but then again... why bring such unnecessary hints at something that will otherwise be ignored and contradicted? It will just make the fact that the EU is ignored even more visible and it is just rather pointless.
cboath
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I don't get the desire for real connection to the EU. I read them up until the first license ended and it switched companies and I like them all. However, if you bind yourself to one aspect of the EU so you can reference events and make it all seem interconnected or whatever, you start tying yourself down way too much. Why should the events of Heir to the Empire because used and those of the Jedi Academy and/or True at Bakura be ignored? (those are the only three book names I recall off the top of my head
). I'm just saying it should be all or nothing, you can't pick and choose.
As for the financial aspect. I think I can whittle down what Bryan said into something a bit more concise and clear. Or maybe not, but here goes. Prior to E1's release, Lucas sold JUST the marketing rights (the right to make toys, etc) for E1-3 for over 1 BILLION dollars. And that's pure profit. Anyone want to say the EU books have generated close to a billion in sales, let alone profit?
That point alone made me wonder how he sold for just 4B. Seriously, anyone think the rights won't go for 1B plus for 7-9?
I don't get the desire for real connection to the EU. I read them up until the first license ended and it switched companies and I like them all. However, if you bind yourself to one aspect of the EU so you can reference events and make it all seem interconnected or whatever, you start tying yourself down way too much. Why should the events of Heir to the Empire because used and those of the Jedi Academy and/or True at Bakura be ignored? (those are the only three book names I recall off the top of my head
). I'm just saying it should be all or nothing, you can't pick and choose.As for the financial aspect. I think I can whittle down what Bryan said into something a bit more concise and clear. Or maybe not, but here goes. Prior to E1's release, Lucas sold JUST the marketing rights (the right to make toys, etc) for E1-3 for over 1 BILLION dollars. And that's pure profit. Anyone want to say the EU books have generated close to a billion in sales, let alone profit?
That point alone made me wonder how he sold for just 4B. Seriously, anyone think the rights won't go for 1B plus for 7-9?
cboath
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
The problem with what Zahn said, and i'm sure Lucas meant it at the time, is that what is implied about 7-9, that it's about luke's children (which makes a lot of sense), kind of steps (hard) on what lucas portrayed the jedi as being in the prequels. They didn't love, they didn't mate. The universe brought them into being by giving them high midichlorian counts (not immaculate conception). I know it'd be best to get rid of the m-word and pretend it never happened. You could do that but you'd still be left with the fact that the Jedi are simply rare occurences. Jedi fathering jedi goes against what has been established as the jedi way in the prequels which goes back, what?, thousands of years?
That said, it's possible the 'balance of the force' thing is that vader/emperor rising and wiping out everything 'jedi' erases everything that's gone wrong with the jedi and someone balanced, like Luke, recreates the order without being beholden to 'the old ways'. Doesn't mean he can't find out about the old ways and disagree with them, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense
The problem with what Zahn said, and i'm sure Lucas meant it at the time, is that what is implied about 7-9, that it's about luke's children (which makes a lot of sense), kind of steps (hard) on what lucas portrayed the jedi as being in the prequels. They didn't love, they didn't mate. The universe brought them into being by giving them high midichlorian counts (not immaculate conception). I know it'd be best to get rid of the m-word and pretend it never happened. You could do that but you'd still be left with the fact that the Jedi are simply rare occurences. Jedi fathering jedi goes against what has been established as the jedi way in the prequels which goes back, what?, thousands of years?
That said, it's possible the 'balance of the force' thing is that vader/emperor rising and wiping out everything 'jedi' erases everything that's gone wrong with the jedi and someone balanced, like Luke, recreates the order without being beholden to 'the old ways'. Doesn't mean he can't find out about the old ways and disagree with them, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Even if the EU makes relatively little money on continued book sales, there's just no need to tread on it at all, and no need to connect your new product to the old characters merely by saying "Ok, so, this is Steve Organa-Solo, and that's Blake Skywalker and over here is Rocbacca." What's the point of doing that? For that matter, what's the point of saying "These are the Solo children. We're gonna tell stories about them." Why bother?
Why not just avoid all of that? The IP's value isn't the Skywalker/Solo families. It's the setting. Jedi Knights, lasers, lightsabres, the Force, some galactic civil war, hyperspace, space ship designs that loosely connect to the older ones, the Sith, etc., etc. It's all about the setting.
Take a tip from ST:TNG. Set several hundred years in the "future" of then-Star Trek, it featured new characters, and completely side-stepped anything that came before it without contradicting it.
You say there's no financial reason to preserve the EU. What's the financial reason to retcon it? Are there analyses that suggest that "Solo" and "Skywalker" are SUCH strong brands that their exclusion would be impossible? Is there SUCH a demand for the appearance of an aged Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher that they absolutely MUST be included?
I mean, we're dealing with a franchise that is a far cry from, say, Indiana Jones which really IS about the character (and which means Harrison Ford). It's also different from James Bond, which is about the character, but for whom we have an established tradition (and even a fan-fic theory) for changing actors in the midst of the franchise.
So, really, why bother? Why do an Ep. VII that contradicts stuff?
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't give a crap if they totally retconned the Vong storyline, or any of the stuff that followed. The bulk of the EU stuff I find to be pretty weak, and I actually think it diluted the strength of the characters and their names as a draw. I just think that completely retconning this stuff just to have a chance to do a cameo with Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher is...kinda stupid. Although, it does seem like exactly the kind of thing Lucas would do, given how he handled things like Darth Vader building C-3PO in the PT...
Even if the EU makes relatively little money on continued book sales, there's just no need to tread on it at all, and no need to connect your new product to the old characters merely by saying "Ok, so, this is Steve Organa-Solo, and that's Blake Skywalker and over here is Rocbacca." What's the point of doing that? For that matter, what's the point of saying "These are the Solo children. We're gonna tell stories about them." Why bother?
Why not just avoid all of that? The IP's value isn't the Skywalker/Solo families. It's the setting. Jedi Knights, lasers, lightsabres, the Force, some galactic civil war, hyperspace, space ship designs that loosely connect to the older ones, the Sith, etc., etc. It's all about the setting.
Take a tip from ST:TNG. Set several hundred years in the "future" of then-Star Trek, it featured new characters, and completely side-stepped anything that came before it without contradicting it.
You say there's no financial reason to preserve the EU. What's the financial reason to retcon it? Are there analyses that suggest that "Solo" and "Skywalker" are SUCH strong brands that their exclusion would be impossible? Is there SUCH a demand for the appearance of an aged Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher that they absolutely MUST be included?
I mean, we're dealing with a franchise that is a far cry from, say, Indiana Jones which really IS about the character (and which means Harrison Ford). It's also different from James Bond, which is about the character, but for whom we have an established tradition (and even a fan-fic theory) for changing actors in the midst of the franchise.
So, really, why bother? Why do an Ep. VII that contradicts stuff?
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't give a crap if they totally retconned the Vong storyline, or any of the stuff that followed. The bulk of the EU stuff I find to be pretty weak, and I actually think it diluted the strength of the characters and their names as a draw. I just think that completely retconning this stuff just to have a chance to do a cameo with Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher is...kinda stupid. Although, it does seem like exactly the kind of thing Lucas would do, given how he handled things like Darth Vader building C-3PO in the PT...
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
The prequel trilogy contradicted stuff already in writing.
I seriously think you are dug in too deep in the EU. They are not important when it comes to the movies. They are NOT part of the movies universe at all. And when you think of the EU in that way, there's nothing to contradict and nothing to make you reference it at all. They are simply: ALTERNATE UNIVERSE stories.
The prequel trilogy contradicted stuff already in writing.
I seriously think you are dug in too deep in the EU. They are not important when it comes to the movies. They are NOT part of the movies universe at all. And when you think of the EU in that way, there's nothing to contradict and nothing to make you reference it at all. They are simply: ALTERNATE UNIVERSE stories.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I don't think any effort will be made to retcon the EU or destroy it, it simply will not be an integral part of the future films. The EU in and of itself can and likely will carry on, but it would likely no longer follow along the same lines as the recent series like Fate of the Jedi. There's plenty of EU content set in the distant past or future timelines. And an entirely new EU will be developed based on characters and situations introduced by the films. When I say the EU is toast, I mean that in terms of any hope it has any canon or continuity int he post ROTJ era.
I don't think any effort will be made to retcon the EU or destroy it, it simply will not be an integral part of the future films. The EU in and of itself can and likely will carry on, but it would likely no longer follow along the same lines as the recent series like Fate of the Jedi. There's plenty of EU content set in the distant past or future timelines. And an entirely new EU will be developed based on characters and situations introduced by the films. When I say the EU is toast, I mean that in terms of any hope it has any canon or continuity int he post ROTJ era.
frosty
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Hopefully they bring the old cast back, thats what i'd like to see, money talks and i'm sure they throw enough money at Harrison he'll sign up,He allways seemed thankfull to George in the past, as where would he be without the first movie?.
I'm hoping they disregard the EU stuff as a lot of it is just not Stat Wars to me, i'm hopingf for something we don't know about, something fresh
Hopefully they bring the old cast back, thats what i'd like to see, money talks and i'm sure they throw enough money at Harrison he'll sign up,He allways seemed thankfull to George in the past, as where would he be without the first movie?.
I'm hoping they disregard the EU stuff as a lot of it is just not Stat Wars to me, i'm hopingf for something we don't know about, something fresh
Jedi-72
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I've never understood the fascination with the EU. I tried following it but found it to be mostly crap. The movies as we know them will never be bound to EU. They're two separate entities and the films have absolutely no obligation or responsibility to bulid upon EU or even recognize it in any new films. Now, if they want to make films based on the EU stuff, I suppose that's fine. But they should be their own thing. Personally, I'd be thrilled if the EU never existed.
There's enough stories that can be told using only the characters that have appeared in the movies we already know without ever having to dip in to the EU nonsense.
I'd LOVE to re see a re-boot of 1-3 at some point. Wipe them off the map. In fact, going back and adhering to Lucas' original 12 movie outline would be amazing. One of the BIG problems with the prequels was that they tried and failed at doing way too much in way too short a period of time. Instead of story, you got snippets of things cut and pasted to imply what was happening or was going to happen in a really slap dash edititorial style. Just not good storytelling.
What made Star Wars what it was is a very elusive thing to try and capture. Lucas failed to do so with the prequels. The feel, the look, the style is a delicate balance of things that I think other directors and writers who love and whose careers were influenced by Star Wars are in a far better position to be able to re-create than Lucas has been since 1979. So, in that sense I am really hopeful about what's to come. To have these films possibly wind up in the hands of filmmakers who care about the material and show it as much reverence as Peter Jackson has shown the Tolkien material leaves me nearly giddy. Someone who doesn't necessarily view it as a "franchise" or a "property" or a "creative corporate asset" or any other vapid, soulless business term. Someone who grew up loving the STORY and the CHARACTERS and who wants to do justice to THEM and wants to make the story and the films what they should have always been. Someone who gets it. Time will tell.
I've never understood the fascination with the EU. I tried following it but found it to be mostly crap. The movies as we know them will never be bound to EU. They're two separate entities and the films have absolutely no obligation or responsibility to bulid upon EU or even recognize it in any new films. Now, if they want to make films based on the EU stuff, I suppose that's fine. But they should be their own thing. Personally, I'd be thrilled if the EU never existed.
There's enough stories that can be told using only the characters that have appeared in the movies we already know without ever having to dip in to the EU nonsense.
I'd LOVE to re see a re-boot of 1-3 at some point. Wipe them off the map. In fact, going back and adhering to Lucas' original 12 movie outline would be amazing. One of the BIG problems with the prequels was that they tried and failed at doing way too much in way too short a period of time. Instead of story, you got snippets of things cut and pasted to imply what was happening or was going to happen in a really slap dash edititorial style. Just not good storytelling.
What made Star Wars what it was is a very elusive thing to try and capture. Lucas failed to do so with the prequels. The feel, the look, the style is a delicate balance of things that I think other directors and writers who love and whose careers were influenced by Star Wars are in a far better position to be able to re-create than Lucas has been since 1979. So, in that sense I am really hopeful about what's to come. To have these films possibly wind up in the hands of filmmakers who care about the material and show it as much reverence as Peter Jackson has shown the Tolkien material leaves me nearly giddy. Someone who doesn't necessarily view it as a "franchise" or a "property" or a "creative corporate asset" or any other vapid, soulless business term. Someone who grew up loving the STORY and the CHARACTERS and who wants to do justice to THEM and wants to make the story and the films what they should have always been. Someone who gets it. Time will tell.
Last edited:
Jm419
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Plenty of Tolkien purists would disagree with this; Jackson changed quite a few small things in his retelling. However, on the whole, I would agree with you; if someone like Jackson cared enough about Star Wars to work hard enough to really nail the universe, I would have no problem buying that the story came out of SW. If they don't get the atmosphere right, though, then there's not much point.
Plenty of Tolkien purists would disagree with this; Jackson changed quite a few small things in his retelling. However, on the whole, I would agree with you; if someone like Jackson cared enough about Star Wars to work hard enough to really nail the universe, I would have no problem buying that the story came out of SW. If they don't get the atmosphere right, though, then there's not much point.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I consider the EU to be fan fiction.
Yeah, I know it's 'official' and 'licensed'- but it ain't canon.
Give me something new in the movies, and if it contradicts the EU then it sucks to be the EU.
I consider the EU to be fan fiction.
Yeah, I know it's 'official' and 'licensed'- but it ain't canon.
Give me something new in the movies, and if it contradicts the EU then it sucks to be the EU.
Last edited:
darth_myeek
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
EU = Star Wars Harlequin Romance novels.
(Oh, yes I diiid.)
-Mike
EU = Star Wars Harlequin Romance novels.
(Oh, yes I diiid.)
-Mike
Similar threads
