Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[batguy]

Wouldn't have helped. It's not like doing the first prequel got him in shape for the second, or the experience of the prequel trilogy prepared him to make a quality film out of Red Tails. The truth is that Lucas was never a good director. A lot goes into a finished movie, and several players on the original STAR WARS contributed to the ultimately successful on-screen product. The actors famously complained that his direction on that film was almost nonexistent. The production limitations which were brilliantly navigated by Gary Kurtz, Rick Baker, the VFX department at ILM and others delivered the look and tone we could all believe in - an aesthetic which frustrated Lucas until he was able to "fix" it with the awful Special Editions, or do STAR WARS the way he'd always wanted to with the Phantom Menace. While there were some great hires on the original film, it'd be a mistake to credit Lucas directly with Ben Burtt's iconic sound design or the brilliant production design of Ralph McQuarrie. It's well-documented that the original Lucas-driven cut was a disaster of pacing and structure, before the edit was rescued by Marcia Lucas. To understand Lucas as a director, all we have to do is look at the projects which he had more direct control of top to bottom: THX-1138, the Star Wars prequels, and Red Tails. He's not a good director, and never was. Just a great idea guy and a brilliant businessman. It's not a terrible exaggeration to say that I love the universe established by Star Warsdespite him, not because of him.

Try watching American Graffiti with the audio commentary from some of the actors. You'd be surprised.

They recall Lucas redoing takes just to make it look more spontaneous & natural, encouraging the actors to improvise dialogue & actions . . . it's hard to believe it was the same guy. They describe him doing exactly the kind of stuff that the later-years GL seemed utterly incapable of.

I don't know exactly what changed, when, or why. But the young GL did show directing chops that would have blown the PT out of the water.

 

[gizmo]

Great more Lucas bashing. He's given Star Wars to someone else because of this and people still moan. How many times do we have to go over the same ground.


Ben

 

[glunark]

Would be an interesting mind F if old Luke had to face a clone of his own father who was less than half his age.

Who knows what DNA could still be scrapped off the inside of that helmet?

 

[ssdesigner]

Great more Lucas bashing. He's given Star Wars to someone else because of this and people still moan. How many times do we have to go over the same ground.


Ben

As many as needed, that's how many. Are we asking that all anti-Lucas talk be silenced? In my opinion those involved could never apologize enough for the prequels. Not when someone has more money than god herself to make something halfway decent. That didn't happen, so....

discuss.

-Ss

 

[PantheraGem]

Would be an interesting mind F if old Luke had to face a clone of his own father who was less than half his age.

Who knows what DNA could still be scrapped off the inside of that helmet?

This kind of stuff is what I mean when I say that there's a fine line between bringing up some nostalgia, and the movie just feeling like the most expensive fan film of all time. I realize that really, it is a fan film, but that doesn't mean it can't feel authentic.

 

[Bryancd]

I agree. I actually like the idea Force vision, but flashback would just seem out of place in a Star Wars movie after 6 films without one.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

Then I think you will be pleased.

 

[Wolfsburg]

I prefer "less is more" and leaving things to the imagination ("I see a city in the clouds..."), but I guess I could get on board with the idea of showing a Force vision to the audience, mainly since the precedence has already been set in the PT.

 

[Bryancd]

I prefer "less is more" and leaving things to the imagination ("I see a city in the clouds..."), but I guess I could get on board with the idea of showing a Force vision to the audience, mainly since the precedence has already been set in the PT.

And the Clone Wars.

 

[jcoffman99]

I agree. I actually like the idea Force vision, but flashback would just seem out of place in a Star Wars movie after 6 films without one.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

Still bugs me the camera pans up after their crawl in AOTC.

 

[astroboy]

Who could forget anakin's wet dreams...er....nightmares in ATOTC?

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[gizmo]

As many as needed, that's how many. Are we asking that all anti-Lucas talk be silenced? In my opinion those involved could never apologize enough for the prequels. Not when someone has more money than god herself to make something halfway decent. That didn't happen, so....

discuss.

-Ss

Its all been said before. It's boring now. No apology from anyone is needed.Its a series of movies that didn't turn out the best they could. They don't owe you anything. People need to let it go now and look to the future. Why waste time and energy on something that in reality is not that important in life. Get enjoyment out of what you can and move forward. Movies are meant for entertainment. Lifes too short to worry about something so trivial.

Ben

 

[Krull]

Would be an interesting mind F if old Luke had to face a clone of his own father who was less than half his age.

Who knows what DNA could still be scrapped off the inside of that helmet?

I dunno how the whole DNA thing is in SW but I'd guess they have some of Vader's around somewheres,as I said I think it'd be interesting if Kylo was an attempt at cloning Vader-no telling just how the Empire is dealing with trying to stay in control with what they have left.

And I know some hate this idea but a lot of those that hate it also hate the Empire still being around.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I don't want to see Anakin as a Force Ghost. He really has no right to come give Luke advice for anything. I'd rather they approach it like the EU where Luke comments on something and then R2 chimes in that he has a holo of Anakin and Luke just had to say the right thing to get access to it. It could be that Obi Wan or Bail had it coded so he could only reveal it to Luke at a certain point or something.

 

[Halliwax]

I don't want to see Anakin as a Force Ghost. He really has no right to come give Luke advice for anything. I'd rather they approach it like the EU where Luke comments on something and then R2 chimes in that he has a holo of Anakin and Luke just had to say the right thing to get access to it. It could be that Obi Wan or Bail had it coded so he could only reveal it to Luke at a certain point or something.

i remember reading, but that doesnt matter now with the canon switch. but so far isnt it they cant keep the ghost form forever? they end up completely "crossing over" ?

 

[ssdesigner]

Its all been said before. It's boring now. No apology from anyone is needed.Its a series of movies that didn't turn out the best they could. They don't owe you anything. People need to let it go now and look to the future. Why waste time and energy on something that in reality is not that important in life. Get enjoyment out of what you can and move forward. Movies are meant for entertainment. Lifes too short to worry about something so trivial.

Ben

We are going to have to simply agree to disagree. It is relevant. We are passionate about the new films, VERY much so. We want them to turn out well, and the vast majority of fans agree that the prequels did not. So, in my opinion, discussing them in that context DOES have value. It's a part of the flow of conversation, and it shouldn't be squelched.

And who is anyone to judge "trivial"? One could argue that ANY of this thread is, in fact, trivial. Like your view on prequel criticism, it's an opinion. We all have them, and should be able to respectfully discuss them.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

-Ss

 

[binkleywalker]

How dare someone call something trivial on a message board discussing movies! All of this is trivial! It's fun and I enjoy all of this, but none this matters even a little bit. Please don't throw stones on a site you are participating in where we discuss Spiderman's powers and if the sound of a TIE fighter engine can be heard in outer space and a light saber has too any blades. You are embarrassing yourself.

Get off your high horse. Even if it's name is Shadowfax. For some reason.

Brian

 

[astroboy]

Considering the amount of money that people make off of these franchises, I'd say that they owe it to us to do a good job

 

[SmilingOtter]

Would be an interesting mind F if old Luke had to face a clone of his own father who was less than half his age.

But the clone didn't know his identity, so Luke would have to explain "No, you are my father!" "No, that's not true!..."

 

[batguy]

I look to SW for traditional fantasy/myth as opposed to sci-fi. No modern concepts like cloning, time travel, consciousness being downloaded/living in computers, etc.


Those sci-fi concepts are allowable in the peripheral sense. But they shouldn't be the building blocks of the main character drama. Leave that stuff to more dedicated sci-fi franchises like Star Trek.

 

[Westies14]

I don't hate George Lucas. Far from it, I damn near idolize the man. I think he's a genius, both as a businessman and as a creative force. I don't think he's infallible by any means though, and I don't think he's a good director or writer. That's heavily supported by statements from the actors in his Star Wars installments. I know firsthand the division of labor on a film production and post-production workflow, and the potential influence of the contributions from key players. I've studied everything available (Lucasfilm sanctioned and otherwise) related to the making of Star Wars, and we all know George's feelings regarding the resulting films in his own words.

As much as I appreciate that without him, we wouldn't have Star Wars, I can recognize that if he'd gotten to make the film exactly as it was envisioned in his head it would have been a 70s cult classic, at best, and at worst we'd have prequel storytelling and characters on a shoestring budget. What's wrong with saying so? It is what it is, and it couldn't have come about the way it did by any other path or with any other combination of people. I wouldn't change a thing.